HTC Bootloader and Warranty an on-line conversation

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f4flake

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2009
227
102
What HTC have done is not illegal. You can waiver your rights. Motorola sold a Developer Edition recently, that did not come with any warranty, that was made clear at the time of purchase. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that the "MAY" is a big grey word. But now from HTC you have it clarified.

To quote tkolev,

It's true you can't act surprised if someone tells you something may happen and then it does actually happen, but I would like to think that if something "may" happen, this means there is also a possibility that it "may not ". This doesn't seem to be the case.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Exactly. And while there are many people who have already unlocked, likely in the expectation that their warranty will be honoured how it used to be, then those people should have their warranty honoured because of the ambiguity. An ambiguity that clearly has never existed.

Motorola looked to sell a developer edition with no warranty, great, but for no warranty the minimum I would expect is s-off and a catalogued driver set.
 
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evo1rs

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2010
198
103
Cambridge
This is the response I got when enquiring about using sixaxis on my phone.
It gave me the confidence to unlock the bootloader but if I've lost warranty then so be it. I haven't had any of the problems listed on xda anyway, fingers crossed I'll never need it like with my hd2.

It does make me wonder though, what they think rooting means.
I see it as simply flashing cwm and then su to gain root access. No major harm done there unless you oc. Can always flash stock recovery back too.
They seem to think it means s-off to allow access to hboot and radio.

--------------

Thank you for contacting HTC regarding your HTC One X.

My name is ***** and I am a Technical Support Agent for the HTC Written Team.

I understand that you are inquiring about unlocking your Bootloader to pair a PS3 controller.

First of all let me explain the difference between rooting your phone and simply unlocking the Bootloader.

Rooting your phone is a complete installation of every aspect of the software, whereas unlocking the Bootloader grants you access to apply things such as custom ROMs, but keeps certain aspects safe, such as the radio package.

These have two differing conclusion to the warranty:

- Rooting your phone will void the warranty completely and utterly.

- Unlocking the Bootloader, will void most, possibly all depending the the situation.

Generally hardware issues will still be covered by your warranty after unlocking your Bootloader, however you are likely to be charged for us to reinstall the official ROM at the repair centre, the reason for this is that to carry out a warranty repair the phone must be in a warranty condition and this includes the software being as it was intended.

Additionally, if our technicians determine the cause of the hardware fault to be a direct cause of the software changes, then this will be out of warranty and chargeable also.

OTA updates can only install on a specific software version and any changes away from the standard version is likely to affect this and prevent you from installing OTA updates, until the official ROM is re-installed without changes.

I would discourage anyone form unlocking their Bootloader if they are not 100% aware and willing to accept the consequences.

For more information please visit the FAQ on our website, following the link below.

http://htcdev.com/bootloader/faq
 
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BarryH_GEG

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Jan 16, 2009
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Exactly. And while there are many people who have already unlocked, likely in the expectation that their warranty will be honoured how it used to be, then those people should have their warranty honoured because of the ambiguity. An ambiguity that clearly has never existed.

Motorola looked to sell a developer edition with no warranty, great, but for no warranty the minimum I would expect is s-off and a catalogued driver set.

When HTC first started unlocking their bootloaders, there was no precedent to follow. Since then Asus has eliminated the ambiguity by saying if you unlock the bootloader you totally give up your warranty - h/w, s/w, and anything in between. As someone said, Motorola took a different approach and offers no warranty in the first place.

From a response to a request for repair someone else posted, at least HTC will honor the h/w portion of the warranty if you unlock but don't flash third party ROM's.

It sucks but it appears as the OEMs get bolder their using unlocking as a way of limiting their warranty expenses. Not just those limited to customer induced damage. I agree that if “may” was historically applied differently HTC should be clear about introducing a new interpretation.
 
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f4flake

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2009
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It sucks but it appears as the OEMs get bolder their using unlocking as a way of limiting their warranty expenses. Not just those limited to customer induced damage. I agree that if “may” was historically applied differently HTC should be clear about introducing a new interpretation.

This is the crux of the matter for me.

They have simply done this in an attempt to circumvent statutory consumer rights.
Official bootloader unlocking is not supporting developers, it's penalising them, and is simply a device to track "developed" handsets and deny warranty under any circumstance.

They should have the balls to do it explicitly.
 

treebill

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2011
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the legal principle is ambiguity in a contract benefits the party that did not draft it.

the use of "may" falls nicely into the above statement.

Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
 
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JSLEnterprises

Senior Member
Apr 26, 2011
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If the screen goes dead, or the speakers or buttons stop working... even though I have an unlocked bootloader, and it's been flagged as "tampered"
if the hardware issue has nothing to do with the software, the it should still be covered by warranty... that is a defect by all definition of the term.

I had an issue with my old DHD (9192) where i was adb pushing the weather.apk to the device (for about the 16th time), then it froze, and died... and had the 'qload' error (equivallent to qualcomm hardware engineering level)... the hardware simply died (possibly the emmc controller)

suffice to say, they repaired it under warranty, even though I told them, it was s-off'ed and rooted (SHIP s-off'd not ENG)

There should still be covereage for hardware defects regardless of whether the 'software' of the device has been tampered with... ESPECIALLY if its been proven its not caused by the software to begin with (eg: hardware problem persisting with full stock, straight from the RUU, software)


... the best is to communicate well with htc, and have proof that the defect is indeed hardware based and was not caused by anything you've done. They're more willing to work with you - from my past experience with them anyways.
 
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jmpmjmpm

Senior Member
Sep 28, 2007
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However you perceive the situation to be.
If you used HTCDev, you agreed that you "may" lose your warranty. HTC have now confirmed that that you will lose it, as per the transcript you posted above.

All ambiguity has been removed. If you used HTCDev, your warranty is gone.

What kind of bs statement is this? HTC cannot change their statement AFTER the fact. In any case in many countries including the UK their disclaimer is NOT worth the paper its written on. This is because a manufacturer or dealer CANNOT disclaim its statutory obligation under consumer law to provide goods free from manufacturing defects and fit for purpose! I for one will be more than happy to teach HTC a lesson in consumer law should the need arise.

In short if you live in the UK the HTC warranty is irrelevant, granted it will enable a speedy repair but after a quick court action that costs £50 (which is recoverable from HTC when they lose) they will be ordered by the court to effect a repair. I cannot wait for someone to do this and shove it down their throat.

Many large companies have quickily found out that in Europe they do what they are told (microsoft, google, apple, etc) HTC is no different.

Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
 

tkolev

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2008
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Sofia
What kind of bs statement is this? HTC cannot change their statement AFTER the fact. In any case in many countries including the UK their disclaimer is NOT worth the paper its written on. This is because a manufacturer or dealer CANNOT disclaim its statutory obligation under consumer law to provide goods free from manufacturing defects and fit for purpose! I for one will be more than happy to teach HTC a lesson in consumer law should the need arise.

In short if you live in the UK the HTC warranty is irrelevant, granted it will enable a speedy repair but after a quick court action that costs £50 (which is recoverable from HTC when they lose) they will be ordered by the court to effect a repair. I cannot wait for someone to do this and shove it down their throat.

Many large companies have quickily found out that in Europe they do what they are told (microsoft, google, apple, etc) HTC is no different.

Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Read what evo1rs has posted. They will repair your faulty screen under warranty but to do so, they will restore your phone to warranty condition (which is a fancy way of saying that you'll have to pay for a new motherboard).

Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
 

tkolev

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2008
800
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No need to be rude mate.

I'm not being rude. We are all adults and as such we should take responsibility for our actions. Unfortunately this whole conversation is begining to look like "why didn't they told me I sholdn't dry my cat in the microwave? Arrrrgh I'm so angry, I'll sue them!"
When HTC locked the bootloader in the first place, many of us said "we know why you did that, but we feel we should be given a choice" and HTC listened. Those were the terms of the deal - unlocking the bootloader = voiding the warranty. It's our choice to make. I guess HTC made up that "you may loose your warranty" just to stay within the law. Also apparently they charge you for the restoration of your phone to factory condition not for the repair (if they are still covered by the warranty). Imagine the following situation: max operation temp of the CPU is 90 degrees. Due to the manufacturing process different units have max operational temp of 85 - 95 degrees. So to be safe nVidia made it stop at 80. HTC uses screens that have max operational temp of 75 - 85 degrees depending on the unit. So they cut the max phone temperature at 70. You flash another ROM. It doesn't stop at 70 and you are fine because you got a screen that operates well till 85 degrees and you never go that high because of the hardware failsafe inside the CPU. Then a pixel dies. HTC replaces the screen with a unit that has max temp of 75 (note that this is still within the manufacturing tolerace specified by whoever makes them). Then your custom ROM fries the screen because it operates above its max operational temp. Who is to blame?

Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
 

BarryH_GEG

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2009
10,197
5,142
Spokane, Washington
I'm not being rude. We are all adults and as such we should take responsibility for our actions. Unfortunately this whole conversation is begining to look like "why didn't they told me I sholdn't dry my cat in the microwave? Arrrrgh I'm so angry, I'll sue them!"
When HTC locked the bootloader in the first place, many of us said "we know why you did that, but we feel we should be given a choice" and HTC listened. Those were the terms of the deal - unlocking the bootloader = voiding the warranty. It's our choice to make. I guess HTC made up that "you may loose your warranty" just to stay within the law. Also apparently they charge you for the restoration of your phone to factory condition not for the repair (if they are still covered by the warranty). Imagine the following situation: max operation temp of the CPU is 90 degrees. Due to the manufacturing process different units have max operational temp of 85 - 95 degrees. So to be safe nVidia made it stop at 80. HTC uses screens that have max operational temp of 75 - 85 degrees depending on the unit. So they cut the max phone temperature at 70. You flash another ROM. It doesn't stop at 70 and you are fine because you got a screen that operates well till 85 degrees and you never go that high because of the hardware failsafe inside the CPU. Then a pixel dies. HTC replaces the screen with a unit that has max temp of 75 (note that this is still within the manufacturing tolerace specified by whoever makes them). Then your custom ROM fries the screen because it operates above its max operational temp. Who is to blame?

Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Great summation. I guess there's two ways of looking at this. HTC could have taken the all or nothing approach that Asus has from the beginning and probably not covered a lot of on-the-fence (was it a defect or user induced damage?) repairs they have with devices before the One X. There still would have been *****ing (why should HTC take such a hard line?) but there would have been no ambiguity. Now, they are taking a hard line.

Glass half full = people with earlier devices got a lot of potentially questionable repairs for free. Glass half empty = starting with the One's, the party's over.

In the U.S., the word "may" in a contract is a defined and recognized term. Personally, I’d never enter in to a contract with the word “may” in it unless what “may” included and excluded was explicitly defined. Otherwise, in the absence of that definition, “may” might as well be “will.” Based on that, users in the U.S. don’t have a lot of remedies available. Good luck to those of you in the rest of the world that are willing to fight the "man" for what you believe in is right. ;)
 

mathrania

Senior Member
Dec 5, 2009
2,344
648
Toronto
HTC ( hereinafter referred to as "they" ) should define the word "MAY" properly on their website...they should mention what would be covered and what not after the bootloader is unlocked....else, they should clearly mention that you WILL void you warranty after unlocking the bootloader.

They have their own rules, but here they are not being clear on what they say
 
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BarryH_GEG

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2009
10,197
5,142
Spokane, Washington
HTC ( hereinafter referred to as "they" ) should define the word "MAY" properly on their website...they should mention what would be covered and what not after the bootloader is unlocked....else, they should clearly mention that you WILL void you warranty after unlocking the bootloader.

They have their own rules, but here they are not being clear on what they say

The time to have questioned the lack of definition was before you clicked the "OK" button. You lose and HTC gains almost all leverage because "may" is not clearly defined. In front of a judge (at least in the U.S.), you can state what you thought “may” should mean but in the absence of definition there wouldn’t be a leg to stand on. Their attorneys didn't choose the language they did accidentally. ;)
 

treebill

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2011
2,130
564
The time to have questioned the lack of definition was before you clicked the "OK" button. You lose and HTC gains almost all leverage because "may" is not clearly defined. In front of a judge (at least in the U.S.), you can state what you thought “may” should mean but in the absence of definition there wouldn’t be a leg to stand on. Their attorneys didn't choose the language they did accidentally. ;)


the legal principle is ambiguity in a contract benefits the party that did not draft it.

All throughout the unlocking process the word may is used implying under certain conditions the warranty would remain intact after the unlocking and this is not the case, that wouldn't bode well for HTC in court.
 

Evil-Dragon

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Dec 15, 2010
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Solihull
www.rooted.me.uk
Given the shambles of all this and HTC's view of customers and the ongoing issues of trying to dev on this phone. I fear this is the last HTC phone I will buy/have on contract. They'll only learn from their mistakes if you hit them hard where it hurts.. Their profits. To do that just don't buy any more phones from them.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
 
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Try4Ce

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Jul 29, 2010
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I am pretty much shocked.

1. HTC Dev states CLEARLY a "MAY VOID", not "WILL VOID". This is major.

2. Android stands for customizing and modding. Why do you think most Android phones are successful? Why do you think the Galaxy Nexus is so popular worldwide? Why do you think the Android OS slowly becomes the number one mobile OS in the world? Because you actually can do something with your phone instead of being held in a golden cage where the manufacturer tells you what to do with your effin expensive gadget.

3. HTC should really consider their sights on unlocking and rooting. Most manufacturers do give you the option freely without voiding the whole warranty. I wont just look away because HTC tells me "Too bad bro, thats how we roll!". There are enough other devices from many other good manufacturers (Google, Samsung, Huawei, Sony), where your warranty isnt completely voided if you root your device.

4. It's ridiculous to say "you can overclock your cpu with a rooted and unlocked device". First off, you need a custom kernel for that. Just an unlock and root doesnt count. Most people root to get more out of the system. I actually never overclocked my devices except for my already years old Motorola Milestone. All the other devices were kept at stock speeds. And for Tegra 3 1,5Ghz, I guess its totally not needed anymore to overclock, maybe underclock for better power management and less heat generation.

5. Android is open source, and therefore, we should be able to mod and root it to get the most out of our mobile experience with this amazing OS. Since its open source, Manufacturers shouldn't be able or shouldn't even think about telling us how to use their goddamn phones software wise (if it stays within the same mobile system). If they want otherwise, go develop your own damn mobile OS you can control. Nobody forces you to use Googles software.

6. As already said, this could become difficult for HTC to stand up in court, if it should come this far some day. They shouldn't be able to hide behind the fact of rooting and unlocking when there are obvious manufacturing issues or problems. What do have yellow display spots, broken cameras, faulty wlan modules, cracking cases, rattling vibration motors or screen distortions on pressure for example have to do with an unlocked bootloader or a rooted android system? I can understand the argument about a damaged chipset/cpu due to overclocking, but the rest?

If HTC sticks to that policy, the HTC One X will be the last HTC device for me and go back to Samsung (or maybe I will try out the next Nexus Device). I love my One X and all, but with manufacturer-issues like that and all that legal/illegal **** it got me thinking.
 
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N3m3515

Senior Member
Sep 24, 2008
354
41
I am pretty much shocked.

1. HTC Dev states CLEARLY a "MAY VOID", not "WILL VOID". This is major.

2. Android stands for customizing and modding. Why do you think most Android phones are successful? Why do you think the Galaxy Nexus is so popular worldwide? Why do you think the Android OS slowly becomes the number one mobile OS in the world? Because you actually can do something with your phone instead of being held in a golden cage where the manufacturer tells you what to do with your effin expensive gadget.

3. HTC should really consider their sights on unlocking and rooting. Most manufacturers do give you the option freely without voiding the whole warranty. I wont just look away because HTC tells me "Too bad bro, thats how we roll!". There are enough other devices from many other good manufacturers (Google, Samsung, Huawei, Sony), where your warranty isnt completely voided if you root your device.

4. It's ridiculous to say "you can overclock your cpu with a rooted and unlocked device". First off, you need a custom kernel for that. Just an unlock and root doesnt count. Most people root to get more out of the system. I actually never overclocked my devices except for my already years old Motorola Milestone. All the other devices were kept at stock speeds. And for Tegra 3 1,5Ghz, I guess its totally not needed anymore to overclock, maybe underclock for better power management and less heat generation.

5. Android is open source, and therefore, we should be able to mod and root it to get the most out of our mobile experience with this amazing OS. Since its open source, Manufacturers shouldn't be able or shouldn't even think about telling us how to use their goddamn phones software wise (if it stays within the same mobile system). If they want otherwise, go develop your own damn mobile OS you can control. Nobody forces you to use Googles software.

6. As already said, this could become difficult for HTC to stand up in court, if it should come this far some day. They shouldn't be able to hide behind the fact of rooting and unlocking when there are obvious manufacturing issues or problems. What do have yellow display spots, broken cameras, faulty wlan modules, cracking cases, rattling vibration motors or screen distortions on pressure for example have to do with an unlocked bootloader or a rooted android system? I can understand the argument about a damaged chipset/cpu due to overclocking, but the rest?

If HTC sticks to that policy, the HTC One X will be the last HTC device for me and go back to Samsung (or maybe I will try out the next Nexus Device). I love my One X and all, but with manufacturer-issues like that and all that legal/illegal **** it got me thinking.

+1 if they dont go back to a customer friendly policy i will change my prefered manufacturer

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using XDA
 
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jmpmjmpm

Senior Member
Sep 28, 2007
165
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Read what evo1rs has posted. They will repair your faulty screen under warranty but to do so, they will restore your phone to warranty condition (which is a fancy way of saying that you'll have to pay for a new motherboard).

Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Still wouldn't stand up in a UK court, sorry:D
 
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ewok666

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2006
551
53
I'm not being rude. We are all adults and as such we should take responsibility for our actions. Unfortunately this whole conversation is begining to look like "why didn't they told me I sholdn't dry my cat in the microwave? Arrrrgh I'm so angry, I'll sue them!"
When HTC locked the bootloader in the first place, many of us said "we know why you did that, but we feel we should be given a choice" and HTC listened. Those were the terms of the deal - unlocking the bootloader = voiding the warranty. It's our choice to make. I guess HTC made up that "you may loose your warranty" just to stay within the law. Also apparently they charge you for the restoration of your phone to factory condition not for the repair (if they are still covered by the warranty). Imagine the following situation: max operation temp of the CPU is 90 degrees. Due to the manufacturing process different units have max operational temp of 85 - 95 degrees. So to be safe nVidia made it stop at 80. HTC uses screens that have max operational temp of 75 - 85 degrees depending on the unit. So they cut the max phone temperature at 70. You flash another ROM. It doesn't stop at 70 and you are fine because you got a screen that operates well till 85 degrees and you never go that high because of the hardware failsafe inside the CPU. Then a pixel dies. HTC replaces the screen with a unit that has max temp of 75 (note that this is still within the manufacturing tolerace specified by whoever makes them). Then your custom ROM fries the screen because it operates above its max operational temp. Who is to blame?

Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Total nonsense ! Why do some people just love to bend over for HTC and even try to justify this BS?

I have not read a single post where someone complained about bricking the phone and then HTC not repairing it under warranty . I've read plenty that ask why faulty buttons might not be replaced under warranty even if the boot loader is unlocked. The whole discussion is pointless until someone challenges HTC in court.....if it ever comes to this.

The website is ANYTHING but clear on this and that's very misleading. If they void all warranty then they could at least spell this out.

I remember the days when pc makers put stupid labels on their boxes and told you the warranty was void if you opened them ....... And we all know how that ended.

All we're asking for is for them to be reasonable. At this point they should be less concerned with a few handsets that may end up dead through rooting ( have not even heard of this happening) and focus on the large number of faults still present.






Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
 
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    I am currently in conversation with HTC about the warranty.

    Here's part 1.


    Customer Chat
    Chat Transcript
    Please wait while we find an agent to assist you...
    You have been connected to Ryan B.
    Ryan B: Hi Paul, thank you for contacting HTC Support. How may I help you today?
    F4flake: I've recently become the owner of a HTC one x
    F4flake: the boot loader is locked and as such I am unable to perform any administrative tasks with the software
    F4flake: I wish to be able to gain root access as the device is mine.
    F4flake: there is a way of doing this of course but in order to do so I must unlock my bootloader
    F4flake: there is an official process to do so over at HTCdev.com
    F4flake: HOWEVER
    F4flake: as part of the process it suggests that unlocking the bootloader MAY invalidate my warrentee
    F4flake: As such I must seek clarification as
    F4flake: 1. The phone is mine, I purchased hardware, nowhere was there an agreement where I said I would not excercise a fundamental administrative right over the software
    F4flake: 2 In the UK a provider cannot simply wash their hands of responsibility from their product.
    F4flake: 3. The wording is extremely non-specific
    F4flake: your turn
    F4flake: are you still there?
    Ryan B: We will not wash our hands of the customer just because they have rooted their phone, if the customer bricks the phone we can not cover this under warranty as this was not a manufacture issue.
    F4flake: then under what circumstances is the warranty void?
    Ryan B: But if the customer has rooted their device we can un-root the phone but this will involve changing the motherboard in the phone and this will be a chargeable repair.
    F4flake: ok, do you want to call a supervisor? Only unrooting a linux installation does not, I can assure you, require replacing a motherboard
    F4flake: also my question remains unanswered. Under what specific circumstances is the warranty invalidated
    Ryan B: If the phone has illegal software, the motherboard needs to be changed.
    Ryan B: Please note that if our engineers determine that the fault you are experiencing is caused by physical damage, wear and tear or illegal software, it will not be covered by warranty. The repair will be chargeable and we will send you a quote. Should you not wish to pay that quote, there will be an approximate £25 diagnosis, shipping & handling fee to have the device returned to you and not repaired.

    Liquid-damaged devices are returned immediately, unrepaired and without charge as they are beyond economic repair.
    F4flake: how are you defining illegal? and in what way does a motherboard need changing when it can be simply flashed with the correct software?
    F4flake: also, I don't have a problem, I'm simply seeking clarification of the rather vague statement at htcdev
    F4flake: can I see a copy of anything that could possibly mean I could in any way load illegal software on my phone? I'm fairly intrigued by this possibility
    Ryan B: Illegal as in the sense of someone taking a ROM and customizing it without consent. Regarding the motherboard replacement, this is what HTC have to do as the security will be turned off on the phone displaying that the phone has been tampered with.
    F4flake: well on the second point, if the security on a phone is removed, are we talking about an unlocked bootloader or a security flag referred to as s-on or s-off?
    Ryan B: That's correct.
    F4flake: because once again NEITHER would require replacing a mainboard
    F4flake: and what's correct? the first example or the second?
    F4flake: the bootloader is not the security flag
    F4flake: also, what do you mean by illegally customizing a ROM? Android is open source
    F4flake: what part of android would be being illegally customized?
    F4flake: Sorry, are you still with me?
    Ryan B: You need to S-Off the phone which involves unlocking the bootloader and this will void the warranty. The ROM can be customized by many users and we do not support this.
    F4flake: sorry, in order to install a different rom you don't need to s-off your phone.
    F4flake: you would need to unlock your bootloader
    F4flake: you may not support people making their own ROM but is that actually illegal?
    F4flake: have you taken it to court somewhere?
    F4flake: look I'm just looking for clarification as to what remains and what doesn't remain of my warranty if I unlock my bootloader.
    Ryan B: No but we just say illegal but in the office we say custom software.
    F4flake: while I'm sure it isn't a conversation you particularly want to have, unfortunately the HTC dev site is really non-specific
    F4flake: so when you say illegal you mean legal then?
    Ryan B: I understand.
    F4flake: only I'm all for nuance, and "custom software" isn't lost on me
    F4flake: so shall we get back to the crux
    F4flake: what part of the warranty is invalidated?
    Ryan B: No Head Office have told us to say illegal as if any stock ROM is tampered with it's not supported by us.
    F4flake: why am I unable to have root access, just as I do with the laptop I've purchased
    Ryan B: You are allowed but we do not support this and the whole warranty will be void.
    F4flake: ok but head office may have said it, but if it is unprosecuted and unlegislated, then seriously. it's a fairly frivoulous phrase to throw around
    F4flake: hang on, if I unlock the bootloader the whole warranty is void?
    Ryan B: That is correct as the phone has been tampered with.
    F4flake: even though you provide the tool to do it officially?
    F4flake: only the htcdev site says it "may" void the warranty. surely it'd be simpler if it simply stated that it absolutely would invalidate all your warranty?
    Ryan B: It is there for the customers own use we do not promote rooting devices.
    F4flake: also, I think you'll find it's not legal in the UK
    F4flake: So let me get this straight and I'll leave you alone I promise.
    F4flake: the act of using the htcdev official bootloader unlock function entirely invalidates your warranty?
    Ryan B: Only if the bootloader is unlocked.
    F4flake: Ok, I know I said I was well up for nuance, but is there a distinction I'm missing there?
    F4flake: I was expecting a yes or no answer
    Ryan B: No there isn't.
    F4flake: Sorry Ryan, can you explain, only your answers appear to be somewhat ambiguous
    F4flake: If the bootloader is unlocked, is the warranty void?
    Ryan B: One moment please i am getting someone who can help you further.
    F4flake: thank you ryan
    21
    part 2.

    Luke: Hi, Paul
    F4flake: Hi luke
    F4flake: Are you reading through or should I go from the top?
    Luke: Just need a moment to read through this chat log, I understand you are not happy that unlocking the bootloader of your device voids your warranty, is that right?
    F4flake: No, not as such.
    F4flake: I'm seeking clarification as to what "may" void your warranty means.
    Luke: Unlocking the bootloader of your device will remove the warranty.
    F4flake: Ok, should that not be reflected at HTC dev?
    Luke: The main reason for this is due to the fact you can perform administrative tasks on the phone, for example over clocking. This can be done. We cannot condone that this will be in warranty as any damages that may occur in the future may have been caused by you performing one of these actions.
    Luke: The HTC dev site is there for developers
    F4flake: Of course it is, but the developers will shortly not be there for HTC
    Luke: What do you mean?
    F4flake: So let me get this straight, The act of unlocking the bootloader voids warranty in its entirety?
    Luke: Yes
    Luke: All repairs will be chargeable

    F4flake: Then I guess I will have to return my handset, inform my twitter followers and post the entire conversation on xda.
    F4flake: I imagine there are a whole bunch of users world wide who will be interested to know they can no longer look to HTC for their purchases.
    F4flake: Thank you for your clarification.
    F4flake: I believe that's everything I need to know. Thank you for your time.
    Luke: Thank you for your time Paul. I am sorry to hear that you are unhappy that opening the bootloader of your device will void your warranty.
    Luke: I apologise I could be of no further assistance to you.
    Luke: Is there anything else I can help you with today?
    F4flake: Not yet, I will shortly be questioning the legality of that statement with my friendly neighbourhood consumer rights person. As I don't believe it will stand up under UK law, Has anyone tested it yet?
    Luke: I wouldn't know that Paul.
    Luke: Thanks for chatting with me today, Paul. To end our conversation, please click End Session. You’ll be invited to take a short survey which I’d be grateful if you took a moment to complete. Enjoy the rest of your day!
    F4flake: cheers.
    4
    I agree, and if the proof the retailer needs to defend in cases of a repair comes from HTC, then whomever unlocked their bootloaders (including me) are out of luck. This is what people need to be aware of when making the decision whether or not to use HTCDev and unlock.

    You must clearly work for HTC.

    Unlocking a bootloader does NOT void warranty under EU law. It can't. It won't.
    Even if you sign it - it doesn't apply because you can't waiver your right as a consumer under any circumstances.
    Whether HTC service center accepts the repair from the seller - I couldn't care less, let them go bankrupt when people stop selling and buying their phones.

    The first thing I did to my phone was unlock via htcdev, root and install a custom ROM. That's what I do with most handsets and all my computers.
    I noticed htcdev terms saying it "may" void my warranty, and I'm cool with that because I know it won't (because I won't use the software to destroy the hardware, messing with voltages etc. -is that even possible?).

    Law is very clear in this case, whatever defect you want repair under warranty has to be repair free of charge unless YOU CAUSED IT. This can't be limited in any way, under any agreement.
    Your analogies with us jumping off the cliff are just utter nonsense.

    Stop making a fool of yourself, we get it - you love HTC because (you work there|get paid by them|hope to get paid by them|I being blackmailed), but please stop spreading FUD.
    4
    I understand both sides of the argument here. But I side with HTC.
    If you agreed to the fact that you "may" lose your warranty, then consider your warranty gone.
    Users need to know & completely understand the risks of modifying their handsets, either soft or hardware.

    One hypothetical question.

    You have a brand new 32" LCD TV, on the back cover a few screws is a sticker that reads "Warranty Void if Removed", you remove the stickers and unscrew & remove the back. You have a look at the innards and replace the back & screws. 3 months later you develop a display issue.

    You call the store you purchased it off and arrange an authorised repair. The repair shop takes a look at the screws and the lack of "Warranty Void if Removed" stickers. They refuse a warranty repair.

    Now, yes there are differences but the gist is the same.
    You agreed to do something that may invalidate your warranty. Consider it gone.

    FYI. I have unlocked my handset through HTCDev. And the 32" LCD TV was my mums, I was 14.
    4
    I am pretty much shocked.

    1. HTC Dev states CLEARLY a "MAY VOID", not "WILL VOID". This is major.

    2. Android stands for customizing and modding. Why do you think most Android phones are successful? Why do you think the Galaxy Nexus is so popular worldwide? Why do you think the Android OS slowly becomes the number one mobile OS in the world? Because you actually can do something with your phone instead of being held in a golden cage where the manufacturer tells you what to do with your effin expensive gadget.

    3. HTC should really consider their sights on unlocking and rooting. Most manufacturers do give you the option freely without voiding the whole warranty. I wont just look away because HTC tells me "Too bad bro, thats how we roll!". There are enough other devices from many other good manufacturers (Google, Samsung, Huawei, Sony), where your warranty isnt completely voided if you root your device.

    4. It's ridiculous to say "you can overclock your cpu with a rooted and unlocked device". First off, you need a custom kernel for that. Just an unlock and root doesnt count. Most people root to get more out of the system. I actually never overclocked my devices except for my already years old Motorola Milestone. All the other devices were kept at stock speeds. And for Tegra 3 1,5Ghz, I guess its totally not needed anymore to overclock, maybe underclock for better power management and less heat generation.

    5. Android is open source, and therefore, we should be able to mod and root it to get the most out of our mobile experience with this amazing OS. Since its open source, Manufacturers shouldn't be able or shouldn't even think about telling us how to use their goddamn phones software wise (if it stays within the same mobile system). If they want otherwise, go develop your own damn mobile OS you can control. Nobody forces you to use Googles software.

    6. As already said, this could become difficult for HTC to stand up in court, if it should come this far some day. They shouldn't be able to hide behind the fact of rooting and unlocking when there are obvious manufacturing issues or problems. What do have yellow display spots, broken cameras, faulty wlan modules, cracking cases, rattling vibration motors or screen distortions on pressure for example have to do with an unlocked bootloader or a rooted android system? I can understand the argument about a damaged chipset/cpu due to overclocking, but the rest?

    If HTC sticks to that policy, the HTC One X will be the last HTC device for me and go back to Samsung (or maybe I will try out the next Nexus Device). I love my One X and all, but with manufacturer-issues like that and all that legal/illegal **** it got me thinking.