Things You Should Know About Lithium Ion Battery

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springy

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2010
376
56
The New addon needs to be reworded, it doesn't make sense

This is spoil the battery because the corrosion activities are relatively high when the battery is in high voltage/ full charge.

Plus it contradicts itself. The New addon says when charge, please take off charge and use it, however point 3 relating to laptop batteries says leave it in... I know what you mean but I think it needs to be reworded :)
 

Xenova

Senior Member
May 4, 2011
518
1,361
When I unplug my phone from charger. The mV drop from 4199mV to 4135mV. Then leave it there it will back to 418XmV. Is this normal?

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk
 

MuF123

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2009
1,003
109
Still waiting for you to explain how you can charge a battery to 4.2V with 3V to show that you aren't giving harmful information.

a) he won't charge it with 3V because he has not the equipment to do it and if would have it, he wouldn't need to ask such a question. It was with "less" voltage, I wanted to answer his question about how does it work, exact numbers aren't an issue this time.

Btw don't mislead people here by saying my information was harmful. You can charge your liion battery with 3V 24/7 and it won't do any harm. It won't charge, but certainly it won't destroy the battery or make it explode, so stop saying I gave harmful information to anyone.
 

xaccers

Senior Member
Jul 21, 2009
2,725
392
Milling around Milton Keynes
a) he won't charge it with 3V because he has not the equipment to do it and if would have it, he wouldn't need to ask such a question. It was with "less" voltage, I wanted to answer his question about how does it work, exact numbers aren't an issue this time.

Btw don't mislead people here by saying my information was harmful. You can charge your liion battery with 3V 24/7 and it won't do any harm. It won't charge, but certainly it won't destroy the battery or make it explode, so stop saying I gave harmful information to anyone.

3V will never charge the cell but due to the current constantly flowing through it it will decrease the life of the cell.
Additionally being kept at 3V, should the supply be intrrrupted you risk damaging the cell by dropping it below the safe discharge level.
I have 5 years experience working directly with lithium cells to make my own custom batteries.
You do not have to make a cell explode in order to kill it, discharging them too far can be enough which is why I provide my clients with low voltage cutoff switches or alarms.


What you plug into the wall is a power adaptor which converts the mains voltage to a safe 5V for the phone.
The charger is in the phone and takes the 5V supply and steps it down further.
 
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MuF123

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2009
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3V will never charge the cell
did I say something else? :)
but due to the current constantly flowing through it it will decrease the life of the cell.
who said he would charge it for 24/7?

Additionally being kept at 3V, should the supply be intrrrupted you risk damaging the cell by dropping it below the safe discharge level.
li-ion cell kept at 3V. Yea, riiiight :D
I have 5 years experience working directly with lithium cells to make my own custom batteries.
I have 89 years of experience in development of custom li-ion batteries and I say you can't keep your battery at 3V because it won't in work any device at this voltage, so it is kinda useless even to mention it


edit:
you risk damaging the cell by dropping it below the safe discharge level.
I have 5 years experience working directly with lithium cells to make my own custom batteries.
So much experience with liion batteries and yet you mention deep discharge? Which phone exactly allow this, mr so-much-experienced-with-liion-batteries-that-can-make-his-own-custom-batteries? :D
 
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thattypicalnerd

Senior Member
Oct 1, 2011
92
8
Atlantis
I didn't know that Lithium Ion batteries died faster when exposed to heat... I think I'm actually going to pull the battery out on AC power, since the laptop that I have gets REALLY hot near that area.
 

xaccers

Senior Member
Jul 21, 2009
2,725
392
Milling around Milton Keynes

Surely you know that you can get multi adaptor PSUs able to provide a variety of voltages?

Lets give you a history lesson shall we?

In post #193 you stated that a PSU supplying 5V is wrong, best let the mobile manufacturers know of your little secret then, considering that they've agreed to use micro USB ports to take 5V as an industry standard.

In post #194 you stated that using a 3V supply would improve the battery's lifespan, when it will not.

In post #198 you showed how little you understood battery technology by failing to see that the 5V supply is stepped down to the charging voltage within the phone.

In post #200 you claimed the supply voltage is 230V, well if you believe that you're supplying 230V to your phone then there's not much help for you.

I rest my case.

You may get some strange kick out of giving mis-information, personally I'd rather give people facts.
 
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MuF123

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2009
1,003
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Surely you know that you can get multi adaptor PSUs able to provide a variety of voltages?
oh no, really, cpt. obvious? :)

In post #193 you stated that a PSU supplying 5V is wrong, best let the mobile manufacturers know of your little secret then, considering that they've agreed to use micro USB ports to take 5V as an industry standard.
=== what does the usb voltage have to do with this?

In post #194 you stated that using a 3V supply would improve the battery's lifespan, when it will not.
=== I've already explained this, L2R

In post #198 you showed how little you understood battery technology by failing to see that the 5V supply is stepped down to the charging voltage within the phone.
=== where? :D

In post #200 you claimed the supply voltage is 230V, well if you believe that you're supplying 230V to your phone then there's not much help for you.
=== once again, you have to learn to read ;) so if USB supplies 5V it supplies it to the battery? No, it doesn't. Same BS as when I've said 230V is supply voltage to show you how dumb BS is written here and noone cares ;)
 

xaccers

Senior Member
Jul 21, 2009
2,725
392
Milling around Milton Keynes
oh no, really, cpt. obvious? :)

In post #193 you stated that a PSU supplying 5V is wrong, best let the mobile manufacturers know of your little secret then, considering that they've agreed to use micro USB ports to take 5V as an industry standard.
=== what does the usb voltage have to do with this?

In post #194 you stated that using a 3V supply would improve the battery's lifespan, when it will not.
=== I've already explained this, L2R

In post #198 you showed how little you understood battery technology by failing to see that the 5V supply is stepped down to the charging voltage within the phone.
=== where? :D

In post #200 you claimed the supply voltage is 230V, well if you believe that you're supplying 230V to your phone then there's not much help for you.
=== once again, you have to learn to read ;) so if USB supplies 5V it supplies it to the battery? No, it doesn't. Same BS as when I've said 230V is supply voltage to show you how dumb BS is written here and noone cares ;)

Where have I said 5V is supplied to the battery?
 

ltdanno360

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2011
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Too many people I’ve met have misconceptions, wrong understanding or simply no idea at all about how to maintain the batteries inside their new spanking new electronic gadgets. More often than not, it will be one of those nifty, super-slim lithium-ion variants. So I decided to write this little primer to help you, erm, I mean, your techno-phobic friends along.

Note that my recommendations are catered along the lines of practical convenience as well as pure battery maintenance facts alone. As with everything, there is often more than a way to skin a cat. I do try to explain my rationale behind my recommendations, so do try to read on before clobbering me on the head with your PhD in advanced materials science.

Tip #1: Lithium-ion batteries are limited by their life-spans
Found an e-bay offer for a lithium-ion battery pack for your ageing notebook or PDA at bargain prices? Or saw that battery pack for your gadget in its dusty sealed package at the corner store of the flea market? Before you jump and snap it up, be sure to first check the manufacturer date.
We all know that all batteries are limited by a finite number of charging “cycles”. However, it is a little publicized fact that the lifespan of lithium-ion batteries are also limited by their manufacture date.

Your lithium-ion battery starts dying the moment it leaves the factory

The fact is, your lithium-ion battery starts dying the moment it leaves the factory! Of course, the actual life-span of an unused lithium-ion battery can vary by a fair amount based on its internal charge as well as the external temperature. But suffice to say that you can expect to irreversibly lose 20% of a lithium-ion battery’s charge every year from its original date of manufacture.
PDA came with more than one spare battery? Take it out of its shrink-wrap and use it interchangeably – today. Thinking of buying a “spare” battery for use in future? Well, just save the money and buy it only when you are ready to use it.

Tip #2: Avoid allowing your device to discharge completely

Every wondered why your modern phone, PDA or iPod is able to cheerfully tell you that “Your battery is now exhausted” for several seconds on its brightly-lid LCD screen before switching off? The reason is simple; there is an artificial circuit that shuts off the device when the charge in the battery is too low.
This extraneous circuit is built to protect from the damage that could result if the charge of your lithium ion battery falls too low. If you still don’t get it: if the charge of your lithium ion battery falls too low, the battery can get irreversibly and permanently damaged. So since Lithium Ion has no “memory effect”, it is better to simply charge your portable device as and when you can or remember.
To set your mind at ease, a “charge cycle” means a single iteration of depleting followed by a re-charge until 100% of battery charge. If you consume 50% of your iPod’s battery on day 1, recharge to 100% at night, and do the same thing on day 2, then you would have just finished up one charge cycle of its battery life.

Constantly recharging a lithium ion battery does not shorten the battery life more than normal usage would

Hence constantly recharging a lithium ion battery does not shorten the battery life more than normal usage would. Avoid letting it sit on empty for too long; instead, keep it charged-up if you can.

Tip #3: Take the battery out of your notebook computer when connected to AC helps… not!

Well ok, actually, taking out the battery from your notebook computer might help, but the reason it does is not really what you think it is.
It is not because of over-charging as most people might believe. There are some really smart circuits monitoring your lithium ion battery (See reason #2 above), and these circuits also ensure that your precious lithium ion never gets overcharged.

However, if there is another killer of lithium ion batteries other than old-age, then it would be heat. Long term exposure of a lithium ion battery to temperatures higher than 40 degrees Celsius permanently reduces its total charge capacity by noticeable percentages chunks per year. Having said that, I would hazard that modern processor like the Centrino Duo runs quite coolly overall.

On the other hand, it is really painful to see someone plug their AC adapter to their laptop, carefully remove the battery and put it aside, then finally sit down and switch on their laptop. Then have someone trip over their AC adapter an hour into an unsaved document. Ouch.

Unless you are setting up the laptop at Wal-Mart or Carrefour to run practically 24/7 until its time to sell it off at “display unit” pricing, my recommendation would be to save yourself the trouble and just leave the battery in. Actually, I think the real motivation to take the battery out of shop display units is to prevent theft. Really, why make it so inconvenient for yourself when the battery will be literally unusable in a few years time.


Source: http://www.articlesbase.com/laptops...w-about-your-lithium-ion-battery-4346670.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEW ADDON:
Some also claimed that we should minimize the duration of the battery remain at high voltage (e.g. 4.2v / 100%). This is spoil the battery because the corrosion activities are relatively high when the battery is in high voltage/ full charge.
Put it short, after fully charge your battery, please use it ASAP. It won't give birth little baby battery if you leave it there with full charge :)

One way of Storing Battery for Long time
If you were to store your battery for a long time, discharge it to 40%. Keep it in a dry and cool place.
For me, my engineer friend teach me a way to keep battery, and i have tried this myself for last few years.
I put the battery into the industrial grade vacuum bag and vacuum it (almost no air in the package), then i store it in my refrigerator (around 0 -3 Celsius). I do this if i want to keep the battery there to sit few months.

NOTE: Make sure it is really a vacuum bag. Else the air in the bag will become moist and may spoil your battery. Careful


<<< Please click on "Thanks" if you found this information helpful.>>
Please DO NOT reply to just to say thanks or Quote the main thread again when reply.
You're welcome to reply/post if you have any QUESTION/ SUGGESTION / COMMENT
We much appreciated your cooperation to make this thread CLEAN :)
Thanks for your understanding:)


Other Interesting Thread :D
Looking for specific tricks to save battery on your android devices?
Feel free to look at this thread
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1189755

Speed up your GPS fixing speed like Thunder (99.9% works unless your hardware broke)
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1239713

### for li-po battery http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187

they blow up! lmao

Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
 
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scyld

Senior Member
May 12, 2011
110
10
I'm working on my PhD in materials science... but not in any sub-field related to batteries :p

Thanks for the info! I thought that my Li+ battery practices were "bad" (keeping my battery in my notebook when on AC power, recharging my phone even when the battery is not near completely used up, etc.), but apparently they aren't!

So, here's my question: with regards to preventing the battery from becoming overly depleted, what % is too low? I have used my battery on my phone until it hits 8%. Is that too low? It has a capacity of 1750 mAh, which is pretty much standard for phones these days, well at least for smartphones.

If it's possible to give a rough estimate of what charge levels could be damaging to a battery, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!


EDIT: After looking into this a little bit, it seems that any charge higher or lower than 40-60% is "bad" for the battery. So, is the answer to my question is that I should ideally not go below 40% if I can help it?
 
Last edited:

Fields47

Member
Dec 24, 2010
22
6
Top Information! Top Post, Its true, we all go through the "Its a new phone i want to make the battery last as long as possible" phase when we buy a new phone, this should help us to make the phase permanent.
 

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    Too many people I’ve met have misconceptions, wrong understanding or simply no idea at all about how to maintain the batteries inside their new spanking new electronic gadgets. More often than not, it will be one of those nifty, super-slim lithium-ion variants. So I decided to write this little primer to help you, erm, I mean, your techno-phobic friends along.

    Note that my recommendations are catered along the lines of practical convenience as well as pure battery maintenance facts alone. As with everything, there is often more than a way to skin a cat. I do try to explain my rationale behind my recommendations, so do try to read on before clobbering me on the head with your PhD in advanced materials science.

    Tip #1: Lithium-ion batteries are limited by their life-spans
    Found an e-bay offer for a lithium-ion battery pack for your ageing notebook or PDA at bargain prices? Or saw that battery pack for your gadget in its dusty sealed package at the corner store of the flea market? Before you jump and snap it up, be sure to first check the manufacturer date.
    We all know that all batteries are limited by a finite number of charging “cycles”. However, it is a little publicized fact that the lifespan of lithium-ion batteries are also limited by their manufacture date.

    Your lithium-ion battery starts dying the moment it leaves the factory

    The fact is, your lithium-ion battery starts dying the moment it leaves the factory! Of course, the actual life-span of an unused lithium-ion battery can vary by a fair amount based on its internal charge as well as the external temperature. But suffice to say that you can expect to irreversibly lose 20% of a lithium-ion battery’s charge every year from its original date of manufacture.
    PDA came with more than one spare battery? Take it out of its shrink-wrap and use it interchangeably – today. Thinking of buying a “spare” battery for use in future? Well, just save the money and buy it only when you are ready to use it.

    Tip #2: Avoid allowing your device to discharge completely

    Every wondered why your modern phone, PDA or iPod is able to cheerfully tell you that “Your battery is now exhausted” for several seconds on its brightly-lid LCD screen before switching off? The reason is simple; there is an artificial circuit that shuts off the device when the charge in the battery is too low.
    This extraneous circuit is built to protect from the damage that could result if the charge of your lithium ion battery falls too low. If you still don’t get it: if the charge of your lithium ion battery falls too low, the battery can get irreversibly and permanently damaged. So since Lithium Ion has no “memory effect”, it is better to simply charge your portable device as and when you can or remember.
    To set your mind at ease, a “charge cycle” means a single iteration of depleting followed by a re-charge until 100% of battery charge. If you consume 50% of your iPod’s battery on day 1, recharge to 100% at night, and do the same thing on day 2, then you would have just finished up one charge cycle of its battery life.

    Constantly recharging a lithium ion battery does not shorten the battery life more than normal usage would

    Hence constantly recharging a lithium ion battery does not shorten the battery life more than normal usage would. Avoid letting it sit on empty for too long; instead, keep it charged-up if you can.

    Tip #3: Take the battery out of your notebook computer when connected to AC helps… not!

    Well ok, actually, taking out the battery from your notebook computer might help, but the reason it does is not really what you think it is.
    It is not because of over-charging as most people might believe. There are some really smart circuits monitoring your lithium ion battery (See reason #2 above), and these circuits also ensure that your precious lithium ion never gets overcharged.

    However, if there is another killer of lithium ion batteries other than old-age, then it would be heat. Long term exposure of a lithium ion battery to temperatures higher than 40 degrees Celsius permanently reduces its total charge capacity by noticeable percentages chunks per year. Having said that, I would hazard that modern processor like the Centrino Duo runs quite coolly overall.

    On the other hand, it is really painful to see someone plug their AC adapter to their laptop, carefully remove the battery and put it aside, then finally sit down and switch on their laptop. Then have someone trip over their AC adapter an hour into an unsaved document. Ouch.

    Unless you are setting up the laptop at Wal-Mart or Carrefour to run practically 24/7 until its time to sell it off at “display unit” pricing, my recommendation would be to save yourself the trouble and just leave the battery in. Actually, I think the real motivation to take the battery out of shop display units is to prevent theft. Really, why make it so inconvenient for yourself when the battery will be literally unusable in a few years time.


    Source: http://www.articlesbase.com/laptops...w-about-your-lithium-ion-battery-4346670.html

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    NEW ADDON:
    Some also claimed that we should minimize the duration of the battery remain at high voltage (e.g. 4.2v / 100%). This is spoil the battery because the corrosion activities are relatively high when the battery is in high voltage/ full charge.
    Put it short, after fully charge your battery, please use it ASAP. It won't give birth little baby battery if you leave it there with full charge :)

    One way of Storing Battery for Long time
    If you were to store your battery for a long time, discharge it to 40%. Keep it in a dry and cool place.
    For me, my engineer friend teach me a way to keep battery, and i have tried this myself for last few years.
    I put the battery into the industrial grade vacuum bag and vacuum it (almost no air in the package), then i store it in my refrigerator (around 0 -3 Celsius). I do this if i want to keep the battery there to sit few months.

    NOTE: Make sure it is really a vacuum bag. Else the air in the bag will become moist and may spoil your battery. Careful


    <<< Please click on "Thanks" if you found this information helpful.>>
    Please DO NOT reply to just to say thanks or Quote the main thread again when reply.
    You're welcome to reply/post if you have any QUESTION/ SUGGESTION / COMMENT
    We much appreciated your cooperation to make this thread CLEAN :)
    Thanks for your understanding:)


    Other Interesting Thread :D
    Looking for specific tricks to save battery on your android devices?
    Feel free to look at this thread
    http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1189755

    Speed up your GPS fixing speed like Thunder (99.9% works unless your hardware broke)
    http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1239713

    ### for li-po battery http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187
    4
    Very good post and you are absolutely right about everything. Leaving the battery in a laptop for long periods of time with the computer being on generates an enormous amount of heat and kills cells within the battery. One thing I'd like to mention, however, is that you should always leave a lithium-ion based battery between 40-60% to have the longest battery life; 20-80% is a realistic range you should keep the battery in and is the next best thing. You never want to fully charge a battery, just like you should not let the battery die (cycling the battery would be something that should happen though if you are not getting the best of your battery life). Again, try not to have your battery passed 80% and not below 20%.

    Another good tip is to not let your lithium-ion based devices (such as a GPS) in your car when it is hot out (or at all) because it will get hotter in your car than outside, your device's battery will be outside of its operating temperature and it will have cells that die out which will decrease the lifespan of your device's battery.
    4
    Hopefully This will help a little (I'm a Li-ion/Li-ion polymer battery engineer)
    The main things that affect a batteries lifespan are the specific charge and discharge regimes (the "work" the battery has to do) and then secondly the cyclic history a cell has undergone (temperature does affect performance so try not to use your phone while in an oven and don't expect full capacity if you keep you phone in the freezer)

    -so to simplify/generalize if you have a phone that uses the entire battery capacity in 5 hours and you put that same battery in a phone that uses the same capacity in 10hours (a less aggressive discharge), the battery will also last for more cycles and have a longer overall lifespan. (it gets complicated, when you consider that it isn't a constant discharge, in reality there are high and low rate times based on what the phone is doing, and there are differences in a battery manufacturers chemistry that may offer advantages for a phone that has higher rate demands or a phone that has a lower peak rate, but targets longer run times)

    Soooo basically- not all lithium ion batteries are the same, don't compare a manufacturer's battery by how well it performed in another phone, I agree with the post from above, the less you use the battery the longer it will last :)
    Most lithium ion batteries nowadays don't suffer the "memory affect" (I've personally test a lot!!!)

    The person who wrote the article stated "Your lithium-ion battery starts dying the moment it leaves the factory" I believe they may be thinking of the slow process of self discharge...basically the 2 active parts of the battery aren't "perfectly" isolated and Li-ions are able to travel even when the phones not in use... I'd suggest they took some liberties with the term "dying"

    1 last thing...it's a common misconception that a particular phone has a poor battery when the phone can only run for 2 hours on a full charge for example. There's most likely a mismatch in the phone manufacturers understanding of the user's typical phone usage... software /power management maybe not optimized...

    unfortunately, it's hard to sum up what's the best way to take care of your battery and I give the author a thumbs up for trying but as you see it's a more complicated system than that...
    4
    Great info, Nice job putting it out there for everybody.
    Here is a link for some real detailed info on Lithium batteries
    http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

    Keep in mind the guys that build the charging circuit's for our phone know a whole lot about lithium batteries and design them very carefully. Our phones taper off charge current ( Voltage limiting) as the phone gets near full charge, once full charge is reached they actually shut off the charge circuit until the Voltage drops off a bit, at that point it will resume charging, if you leave it plugged in it will effectively charge to 100% then discharge a bit, once low enough it will resume charging again, and continue this cycle until you unplug it.
    All while your phone says it is at 100% charge.

    Ever notice that you unplug it sometimes and it starts dropping % very soon, Other time's it takes longer before it starts dropping %? It all depends on where in that cycle you unplug it. The percent you see is a built in calculation on what they think you want to see. How mad would you be if you charged your phone all night and then unplugged it and it instantly said you were at 95%? humm....

    This is a great app that works on some devices if you are curious https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manor.currentwidget&hl=en

    Overcharged lithium batteries equals FIRE! That is the last thing phone manufactures want! Well, the I-things have had problems with that... In my industry we call them thermal events. Fire is a bad word.

    Once again Great Job!
    3
    1)Can a battery ever blow up with regular use, like those cheap ones from China?
    Yes. Improbable but yes.

    2)is it safe to use a cheap eBay charger that didn't come with the phone but plugs in and the charge light comes on?
    As you don't know how does it charge the battery, when it stops charging the battery and what it does after the battery is fully charged the answer will be: NO.

    However I use one of those cheap docking stations for my Milestone which can also charge batteries and I do charge my secondary, cheap chinese battery in it regularly.