[Q&A][i9505] Knox Q&A / Discussion Thread - ask questions here!

Seeing as the thread in the development section is being flooded with questions when its meant to be a development research thread and important info is getting lost amongst all the questions, I thought Id create a Q&A thread for all Knox bootloader 0x1 related questions so that we can try and keep the development thread just for research and testing.

Please feel free to ask any question here and i'll do my best to answer it but hopefully some of the other members who know a bit more will also join in and help answer some of the questions people have.

What we know so far (I think!)

1. Upgrading to newer Samsung firmware will upgrade the bootloader to knox bootloader. this will give an additional 2 lines in download mode about knox status.

2. If the Knox warranty void line says 0x1 then you cannot use knox softwareas your device has been flagged as insecure. By this i mean that if your workplace / company supports bring your own device to work for corporate emails etc and they use knox to keep security your device will not allow this. You are still able to use future samsung firmware releases with the knox flag 0x1. hope this makes sense. sorry for any confusion this has caused!

3. If the knox warranty line says 0x0 knox will work.

4. with the new knox bootloader root will work, however rooting with CFautorootwill trip the knox flag. thanks @DjeMBeY for correcting this point you can use the root method (Root de la Vega) described here for rooting a device with knox bootloader.

5. If you try to downgrade to earlier firmware / bootloader it will set the knox flag to 0x1 i.e. void.

6. once the knox flag gets set to 0x1 there is no way to set it back (that anyone has found yet anyway!)

7. some newer 4.2.2 software that's supplied with the knox bootloader has been repacked by devs to not use the new bootloader and it all works fine you can still keep up to date.

8. I've seen people trying the test build of 4.3 touchwiz without the new knox bootloader sound and wifi does not work. This is no longer the case, see point 12.

9. There seems to be a big question mark as to weather Samsung will allow hardware repairs under warranty with the knox 0x1 flag

10. only seems to affect GT-i9505 at the moment!

11. Software affected thanks to @DjeMBeY

DjeMBeY said:

XXUDMGG was the first one....
The letters changed from XXUB... to XXUD...
XXUB... - BOOTLOADER KNOX FREE
XXUD... - NEW KNOX BOOTLOADER with 0x0 / 0x1

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

12. it is now possible to install custom 4.3 TW roms which have been modified to work without the new knox bootloader, do make sure that they are free from knox bootloader before flashing. Do note also that if you already have knox bootloader flashing anything even these 4.3 custom roms will still trip your 0x1 flag

What knox bootloader looks like in download mode . In this picture Knox warranty is in tact as the flag is 0x0:





I hope this answers some questions, anyone feel free to correct me and i'll try to keep this OP updated with info as people supply it / discover it.

This is my personal theory until proven otherwise from Samsung:

No, I'm not a conspiracy freak. I don't believe we didn't go to the moon. I don't believe that we had aliens in Roswell and I don't have hats made out of folio but I am concerned.

Because all we talk about here is the Knox-bootloader and how to avoid triping it when Knox is so much more!

So here goes my rant. Please, if you care to answer, answer on topic.


Samsung invented KNOX as a control framework for governments.

Rationale
We know that Google tracks our phone. We even agree to that when we start up for the first time. That it's a choice we have made.
Google or Apple. They do the same. It's not the biggest pleasure that I know that they do that but then my provider can do the same so that was a choice.


But here comes Knox...
We have not been able to opt out from this (which is something I strongly advocate that we should).

So what does it do with the phone?
They updated the bootloader with SE-Linux (read about it if you want:Wikipedia - SELinux. That was make the phone cooperative and governmental friendly but it has some serious implications for us, private citizens.

You are prevented you to see parts of course device since you configure SE-linux with "policies" that you enforce.
That means that we are at the whim of what Samsung wants us to see in our phones or not.

So they basically create a "box" (or call it by it's real name a jail). You have access to what they want and nothing else.
And what we know is that it's "boxing" us. It's just like in Unix and jailing. You give access to what you want and then you have no access to anything else.

I have had problems with loading apps from my SD-cards for instance but some apps are ok? So what, do they have a list over what is allowed?

I bought a phone and the phone is MINE and this is what I was arguing with Samsung (among other things) yesterday. I consider that they cripple my phone and this is not what I have signed up too.

That will be my next step here. I called for some more Swedes but maybe this is mostly people from US? I have no idea.


So what can you then say that Knox is?
Is the logical next level. Total control.

As said, we talk about the bootloader but has anyone tried to reverse-engineer all the Knox-apps that are included in our phones?
What do they do? What information are they sending? We don't know jack **** about what Knox really do to our phones!

When it comes to Ethernet we can capture everything there is sent and pack up every single package, but I doubt that anyone can afford a base-station to see what the mobile is really doing?

So we are basically stuck here and we can't say that the phone doesn't chit-chat with my provider all the time and that my provider is sending my info somewhere else, can I?
My country, Sweden, is a bit tricky. They say one thing and does another. So I really don't know if my info is feeded to something that is the equivalent of NSA or not.
They talk about being open here but breaks the rules constantly so I at least consider that Snowden thing for something positive.

I have no idea how people in USA think about Snowden, a traitor etc but I think, that for me, it is good to know the extent of the "program".
It has also led to some real investigations here in Europe and UK doesn't look especially good for instance.

Who want this?
I think it's quite obvious. Governments. They want control. And we are headed towards that under the pretext of safety. Do you feel safe? I don't.
Are you an activist? Do you advocate for something? Are you "politically incorrect?". And that is just the civil rights that I can up with while writing this.

How do we really know if there can't be "someone" that can remotely control your phone?
Turning on the camera or the microphone, read your SMS, record your calls? At your home. At your work. Anytime. Anywhere.

What apps do you use? For what purpose? How? Hell, they can even download something for you and remotely upgrade their damn Knox without us knowing.

Because firewalls are just worthless. Knox works on a much lower level, since it's SE-linux and you could almost call it that we run a virtual environment in our phones.

Off topic, but this is how I am.

The question about the sheer volume of data and that is impossible to keep track of. No it's not. It's all statistical analysis.
As an example that is exactly what Google is using to make their translator better. You have the option to correct but also it sifts through material and uses normal predictability on how the text should look like.
Haven't you noticed how better and better it gets?

And Google doesn't stop there. They have big plans of real-time voice translation. You talk English on your end and the person in Shanghai hear Chinese and vice-versa.
Again, statistical analysis.

We tend to be person of habits. We go to work the same way. We tend to buy grocery at a few favorite stores. We present a pattern.
Already now we get commercials aimed directly towards you. All the "bonus" cards that you get in the store that record every single product you buy.
Then you get sent their commercial just for you. How can I know? Well, we have two bonus cards and buy different things and get different "Get this for the price of one!".

And it can go longer. In a while we can get a commercial about for instance shoes since we are so patterned that they know when we tend to buy new shoes, what type of shoes we like etc etc.

Just examples. But I think that Orwell was so wrong. We have surpassed him totally and have more control then Gestapo or DDR ever had.

Hell, here in Stockholm you have a "nice" option. You can register your travel-card that if you loose it you will not loose the subscription of the time you have left.
So nice, but if you turn it the other way, they have a card that has my name and that they can track every single movement that I do since I have to use it in the tube, buses etc.
They can look me up and see, oh, Absolon usually goes here and there, but wait, why does he go there all of the sudden?

So while we collect our "bonus points" we are willingly giving up our personal information and with that there will slowly be a built up profile of me.
What if I AM in a activist group (which I actually are). They can easily track my calls, emails, meetings etc.

ON TOPIC

And here comes Knox. It's supposed to "protect" you. Please don't be that naive. It's about control.
Have you found ANY Knox-apps that suits your needs as a private person? I looked yesterday and I founded a "Knoxed Dropbox". WOW!

So it's to no surprise that governments wants as much control they can. The 15 years in the name of terrorism. It didn't go so well in Boston, did it?
If that is what you guys over there are pouring money over I think you should sack them all cause they do a lousy job when it comes to that.

And again the NSA. They tried to hack EVERYTHING! They even tapped the Germans chancellors cellphone! An alley!

USA's close allay, UK tracks their citizens as well. They have over 8000 cameras place in London! Just so they can track every movement of "suspicious" people. But now they don't have too. Samsung has provided them with Knox.

Why didn't Samsung release a special phone for just this purpose? They spit out phones so a Knoxied version would be no problem and leave ut alone.
So there MUST be something more going on. Yeah, control. As someone said. They don't want us to play with their software.
At the same time, I would be not surprised where they get their ideas from. If you think about it. Don't you find similarities in roms made earlier and current ones?
(That is why I'm saying to keep a damn GPL-license on what you produce!)

And please, don't say "As long you have nothing to hide why bother?". You HAVE something to hide. Your right for privacy.
Your right to not be tapped in your own home or tracked and profiles by a government.


Ericsson wasn't that scrupulous when they sold equipment to Iran (or China that is one of their biggest customers).
What does Iran use Ericssons mobile equipment for? Population control. To squelsh any oposition there might be.
Does anyone think that Samsung would care for a second if they got a proposal from them? I don't. And Knox is perfect for just this.

So again don't be naive and think that Know is for YOUR protection. They don't give a flying duck about you as long as you buy their products!

They have the right to make money are a corp but not they have passed a limit. They have made my phone into a potential spying machine.
Cause how the duck can I know????

I'm lucky I have XDA and all you great people and I will not give a damn about the Knox-flag if it trips or not. The only thing that I'm interested in is if the tripping of it does something that limit my phone anymore then Knox already does?

I called Samsung yesterday (think I wrote about it already) and they where so kind that they told me that if I, as a developer, accidentally trip the flag I can just send the phone in and they will reflash it for me.
So that means that there are no e-fuses and we can leave that part behind. It's code in the boot-loader that boots up a SE-linux.

And here is where I hope that the excellent devs are working. I'm too old for this. Was ages I coded, working with something completely different.
I also don't know a jack **** on how the Samsung boot-strap their phone.

So until Samsung proves otherwise, your information, everything you do, can/are tracked/used and YOUR PHONE IS NOT SAFE. because how can you guarantee that?

If you want to see how far we have come in tracking, install "Collusion" in your web-browser and browse a while and let it build a map. Just for fun? Then you can ask me further, but please, do that for me?

So to summarize,

So WHY does Samsung enforce this it on YOU AND ME?

I think that this is a question that we should spread and ask in several forums and put a pressure on Samsung on this. Since I doubt that they want to have the selling-slogan as "Spyphone".

Because again. We have NO DUCKING idea what Knox does, do we? And the only way we can make Samsung listen is to spread this to the masses.
Let them know what they have. Let them decide if this is what they want too. If we present it in this light I think people will be concerned. Just as I am.
Even though I know a "tad" more.

Ok, rant over. Sorry for a long post but for me this is something that could have serious implications.

ROOT de la Vega - Working on GT-I9505!!

The BIGGEST moment has arrived....

First in the World, patched FW for GT-I9505 using new method "Root de la Vega" by @designgears
Works like charm, TESTED on XXUDMH8!!

KNOX WARRANTY VOID 0x0!!!!! (not tested by it MUST be!! )

Available soooon.... stay tuned!!

Taking into account what Hawk said in the first post. This is what we know so far.​

You CAN:

• Still flash any Custom (Or Official ROM) that you want THAT IS NOT A DOWNGRADE!!
• This means you can still flash any Custom or Official ROM that still has the KNOX Bootloader (but not ones without it, unless it's specifically a Custom ROM that is still XXUD but was packaged without the KNOX Bootloader.
• Still ROOT your device with CF-Root etc or Root de-la-vega (but what is the point, KNOX Warranty will still be 0x1)
• Still install any Custom Kernels etc. but bear in mind that 4.3 TouchWiz will not work with Custom Kernel etc. as stated above.
• Basically you can still do anything. It's just very questionable if your device still has Warranty.

You can NOT:

• Flash your device to an older Firmware / Baseband. It will FAIL (AND if you had KNOX Warranty as 0x0 (valid) it will trip to 0x1 (VOID))
• Use KNOX apps. Like the KNOX Locker etc. It won't work.
• You cannot get updates over OTA or through Samdung Kies.
• Sell your device WITH Warranty. Your Warranty (by definition) is void.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hopefully this clears a lot up. Maybe I was wrong with something, if so a Mod or Admin can edit my post. Or someone can tell me and I will do it myself.

Please lets keep this on-topic. It seems as if all Off-topic nonsense is getting ignored anyway. So don't waste your time. Read the first post. Read the whole thread (only takes 10 minutes) and then think hard if you should post here or not.

When in doubt. You can always 'try yourself' that's the whoooooole point of these forums.

Hi,

BTW, if anyone is interested what the KNOX thing is all about,check THIS