I tried it and I completely agree, it works well but it is not intuitive, especially for a desktop computer. I try too to install it by Microsoft Deployment Toolkit and it works fine...
Why Windows 8 WILL and WONT FAIL.
- Thread starter benjamingwynn
- Start date
Here is one good comparison (Of-course not mine)
Iphone --> UI centric
Android --> Close to desktop
Win 8 --> Data centric
After reading the reviews of Windows 8 I am inclined to try it once.
Iphone --> UI centric
Android --> Close to desktop
Win 8 --> Data centric
After reading the reviews of Windows 8 I am inclined to try it once.
Well we've got some official answers to this:
Not only are they removing WMC, but they're also removing DVD playback from windows media player. No TV or blu-ray support either.
Only way around this is to upgrade to pro and then to buy the media center pack.
http://pureinfotech.com/2012/05/04/windows-8-stops-dvd-playback-media-center-pack/
I wonder if slipstreamed isos are already on the torrents ?
Seriously, the point of a computer is to organize, store, and use data. Hollywood may think they are different and special, but once they produce something, its just data. Microsoft should have pointed this out to them, and just paid the fine to play dvds.
So, a bunch of cracking/torrenting, or just download VLC ? Hmmm
Yeah I read the blog the other day, its very confusing
if you have Win 8 and want WMC you need to get the "pro pack"
If you have Win 8 Pro and want WMC you need to get the "Media Pack"
Whats unclear is does the pro pack upgrade your whole OS to pro, in which case its not going to be cheap, and if it doesn't upgrade the whole OS to pro then why call the Update Pro, which in either case, ironically doesn't have the WMC in anyway!
It also didn't say anything about upgrades removing WMC, I asked the question but alas no answer as yet
Im not especially bothered about WMP, Its been pretty crap (as a video player) for years
The funny thing with DVD playback is that its expensive to do it legally.
Ive been having an argument with Linux lovers on another forum about this as they seem to think they are above the law.
To play a DVD on a computer or a standalone DVD player requires a licence. Yes there are "free" software choices out there, MPC and VLC being two of them, but it doesn't make it any less illegal. The mere fact you may live in a country that doesn't allow prosecution for such things still doesn't mean its ethically right, as any form of DVD playback should have permission from the technology owners.
If you buy a hardware dvd player, they will have paid for the right to play those DVDs, the cost would have most likely been passed on to you. Its the same for software. The issue MS has is that it couldn't just do it anyway as the fine would be astronomical, you think that MS has what 90% market share, 30/40% of that is Windows 7, that's a huge figure, in the hundreds of millions of PCs, potentially MS could be liable for every computer effected by it.
Open source Linux has significantly less, its also questionable how much using it is down to the user or the OS, does shipping the software imply they are responsible or does the user clicking on the button "its my fault" clear the distros of responsibility.
these organisations wouldn't have much in the way of cash to hand over if they were sued and finally many of the software solutions for Linux to play DVDs are conveniently located in countries that couldn't give a funk about it being legal or not....
To be honest I have no idea how much a licence costs, ive heard everything from a few pence to £50, I guess the only way we will know if this is cost effective is if the price of Windows drops by a notable amount.
An "app" is a standalone, simple, limited purpose, quick and easy means of getting some info. They're well suited to tablets and phones since they have a simple set of commands and they don't require much input since they are meant to display information already created by others - usually on a Windows PC.
If it can be done as an "app" it's a bit like the sidebar stuff. Nifty looking clocks and stock trackers, but not really for anyone serious about what they are doing.
If it can be done as an "app" it's a bit like the sidebar stuff. Nifty looking clocks and stock trackers, but not really for anyone serious about what they are doing.
I agree with your definition of app but I beg to differ about its potential uses.
if I want to see what emails I have or what information a program has for me to view, why loadup the whole program when a simple tile displaying key relevant info could be used to much better effect, if I then see that I need to use the full program then I can load it up as normal. Personally I just find it much quicker once you set them up, I mean, you push the windows button and potentially your then given up to 24 different pieces of information at a glance, push it again an your back to work....
I think it is, namely because they do clean room reverse engineering and write their codecs from scratch. Also, why should we have to pay somebody to enjoy content that we already purchased a license for? Furthermore, programs like XBMC do a much better job of DVD and even blu-ray playback than any commercial player I've seen, not to mention their user interface is a hell of a lot better.
I've had copies of powerdvd, arcsoft tmt, and windvd, they are all crap.
One thing that is particularly annoying for me is how my cable provider sticks the 0x02 CCI flag on all channels just because they can, when no other cable providers do. That forces me to use WMC, and WMC is the most buggy POS I've ever used. It crashes all the time, stops responding to remote commands, even loses signal for no apparent reason (how the **** you lose signal on cable is beyond me,) and will at random times tell me that my hardware is incapable of playing protected content, even though most of the time it works fine.
I briefly convinced them to drop the CCI flag, but that only lasted for a week. During that time I used mythtv, it worked great. However now I'm stuck with the POS known as WMC again, and worse is that when windows 8 comes, I'll actually have to pay money for that garbage.
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Pirate bay
Don't know if that is a WMC problem. I use it all the time. I record OTA programs and it works beautifully. I watch them in the living room through my Xbox 360. The thing is flawless. Much better video quality than cable or internet HD. 1080i OTA is great. Only thing better is bluray.
Making us pay extra for WMC just means I hang on to Windows 7 64 bit longer. It works. No need for an update. I kind of predict a Vista situation. Win 7 works so well most of us have no reason to try something radically different.
Anyway worst case scenario there is always pirate bay. If they want to play hard ball I am more than willing to get down in the gutter with them.
Don't know if that is a WMC problem. I use it all the time. I record OTA programs and it works beautifully. I watch them in the living room through my Xbox 360. The thing is flawless. Much better video quality than cable or internet HD. 1080i OTA is great. Only thing better is bluray.
Making us pay extra for WMC just means I hang on to Windows 7 64 bit longer. It works. No need for an update. I kind of predict a Vista situation. Win 7 works so well most of us have no reason to try something radically different.
Anyway worst case scenario there is always pirate bay. If they want to play hard ball I am more than willing to get down in the gutter with them.
Through a bizzar serious of digital querks that's not the case. you buy a DVD, yes you have the licence to view that content for personal use only, but you don't have the licence to decode that content, to do that you must use software or hardware to decode it and that requires a licence. I can promise you that all commercial DVD players have to pay up front for the right to decode DVD content. Reverse engineering is still taking someones technology without consent.
Think of it this way, the reason MS doesn't have BD playback on the xbox is not because they really dont like Sony its because it costs them to licence that playback....any they really don't like Sony
WMC works fine for TV with me but I use Arcsoft for DVD playback as its upscale works great for DVDs and ive never had any BD issues either, you perhaps have some driver issues or hardware conflicts.
You buy a dvd, and a dvd player or burner. What rediculous line of thinking is used to imagine having to pay yet again for "rights" to play the dvd ?
Let's say your way of believing is sound and just. Hollywood changes their collective mind, and decides to squeeze you a little more: you must now buy a yearly license to watch dvds, anywhere. No license, you're breaking the law. Is it still a sane line of thought ?
Its nothing to do with Hollywood, they change you for the content.
But the ability to playback that content must be licenced, that's not to you by the way, the licence is to whoever makes the hardware or software to play back the content. The cost of that licence will however be passed down to the user in one form or another.
Getting this back on topic, MS has apparently decided NOT to buy the licence to enable WMP to playback DVDs, thus DVD support has been pulled in WMP, WMC is a chargeable add-on, within the charge will be the cost of the DVD playback licence.
and pleas get some respect, you clearly have no idea of whats going on so don't tell me to stop my *****ing, which im clearly not.
I don't use WMC or WMP for DVD or Blu-ray playback, so I couldn't care less. The point is
A, I hope there is a notable drop in price considering that they are no longer paying for playback licences.
B, and a secondary point is that using many "free" playback option is most likely going to be breaking the law or at the very least not crediting the people who own the right to playback DVDs etc, as any legitimate playback device or software will be paying for a licence.
There won't be. Microsoft is simply dropping them because it doesn't really add any value to their product, so they may as well save the money to add to their bottom line.
And honestly, I don't blame them.
Im sceptical to the savings as well on the desktop, where it may be more visible is in RT.
If MS hasn't realised, Price is going to be king! if they can drive the price point down to match Android ARM then it will nail it. I actually don't think there has ever been a Microsoft release that is so heavily dependant on its price point, ARM I mean, x86 is a different kettle of fish altogether.
The CPU architecture doesn't really matter so much. What does matter is that the mobile platform is hypercompetitive. Price very much plays a role in such a market, however that isn't the only role, not even close.
Historically, the tech world has shown us that there is generally only room for two major platforms for developers and consumers to target at any given time, as the third one (and the ones after that) remain very distantly behind the first two because it never really catches that consumer confidence. Video game consoles and PC's really drive that home, only in the case of the PC the second place guy is WAY in the dark.
IMO Android will always hold a spot on the mobile platform for the same reason Microsoft always has in the PC space. The reason I think it will do that is because it is doing to apple what microsoft did to apple. Microsoft provided a platform that just any OEM could use. That effectively changed things so that it wasn't just microsoft vs apple, rather it was anybody who could build a PC vs apple.
However, lately, Android drives that even further, and in the case of Windows, microsoft has moved closer in the direction of apple.
In order to make an Android device, the OEM doesn't even need to get approval from Google, hell google doesn't even need to know that they made the device. They can just go right on ahead and make it. Although google has outlined some rules that the OEM's must follow in order to use the Android trademark, there is no approval process, rather if they use the trademark incorrectly they'll probably get sued. Google only does this to prevent the Android platform from being fractured (e.g. you can't call it android unless it does at least x, y, and z and is therefore compatible with all apps.) Further, Google makes the barrier to entry for creating apps very low. The SDK costs nothing, and putting apps up on the market only costs $25 for as many apps as you want to put up, and there is no pre-approval process. Or you can just circumvent google entirely and allow sideloading with your own distribution platform. Up to you entirely, though the Android market provides good marketing for what you pay for it.
This makes it extremely attractive for third parties to want to use and deploy the android platform, because they are free to do many things, including making devices that cost basically nothing (and consequently are very popular on prepaid plans and in third world countries, in addition to the enthusiast market; contrast that to microsoft and apple which tend to be enthusiast only.)
Microsoft has moved in the opposite direction, and in my opinion this is going to create problems for them. Not saying it will prevent them from succeeding (though there's a good chance of it,) but it does create problems nonetheless. First, they've gone away from allowing just anybody to build devices based on their platform, and they now require strict controls as well as an approval process for the device itself. This costs the OEM additional money on top of the cost of the license of the OS itself. This rule applies to both x86 and RT, by the way. Then on top of that, the developers have barriers to entry. Although there is a limited version of the SDK for free, you ultimately have to pay to use the more advanced functions of the OS. There are also per app publication fees to the windows app store (developers for both iOS and Android rarely make any profit at all, given windows phone's smaller market share, this problem is guaranteed to be worse) and sideloading is strictly forbidden.
Another note on sideloading by the way: Sites such as this one, science fairs, engineering conventions, and open source developers, all tend to favor devices that they are free to modify as they see fit. Most Android OEM's* don't lock down the devices and allow you to do whatever you want with them. Microsoft has gone out of their way to make sure this can't happen with future versions of windows. In fact, even so much as dual booting will become a very tedious process with an OEM machine once windows 8 ships.
*Motorola and HTC being the exception, and they both only hold a small market share (12% and 6% respectively) compared to the rest, especially compared to Samsung (26%) who has pledged to not lock anything down, and LG (20%) who has thus far only locked one device down, and it was over a year ago. And given that google bought out motorola, it's probable they'll stop as well.
"the first dramatic jump in UI design in the last 3 decades" Oh, come on!
Have you EVER tried Linux? I have been using Linux as Desktop. NOWHERE near Win/Mac UI. ok maybe some parts.
Now, i use Arch linux & Gnome 3...
what about Xfce? LXDE? KDE? other GUIs?
only apple and micro$oft? :\
I want to try Win8 in a VM... I like new things!
However, has anybody said about SECURITY FLAWS???
win generally, is the biggest and easiest target of a hacker (or even script kiddie)!
I can't forget the HUGE security flaws of Vista which where XP holes + 7 holes together...
Also administration? is it easy? for a power user, is it easy to do a thing without mouse/buttons/GUI??
in linux (and partially mac), when you can't do something with the GUI, you just do it by terminal
in win, when you can't do something with the GUI, you just don't do it...
Actually that hasn't been true for a very long time.
All major platforms have many security holes. Windows has proven itself very secure by virtue of the fact that microsoft has been very responsive towards ongoing threats. The changes to windows vista brought about dramatic security enhancements of the underlying OS.
In fact most windows malware aren't vectored into the underlying OS itself, but rather vulnerable third party software such as java, flash, acrobat, etc. Whats interesting is that the design of the OS itself mitigates most of these vulnerabilities, so microsoft is even compensating for the mistakes of other companies.
Windows and Linux are roughly on par with one another in terms of security these days.
However windows has an advantage that other platforms do not: Antivirus software on the windows platform has a heuristics detection rate of 90% of undocumented threats. That is a rate most in the computer security field hadn't anticipated a few years ago. It is so high, that malware authors have begun to target something that is statistically "bigger and easier" to hit: Mac OSX.
Although OSX has a very tiny market share, the chances of a successful attack against mac users is high enough that it is a more attractive target than windows these days. Not only that, but apple is VERY SLOW when it comes to responding to malware threats. The last one took them two months to respond to. That is an eternity in the security field. In addition to that, most Mac OSX users tend to live under the belief that macs don't get hit by viruses (primarily because apple tells them this,) and likewise they don't protect themselves accordingly. Needless to say, this makes them very attractive targets for the criminal underground.
If you don't believe me though, then don't take my word for it. Just look at the results of the pwn2own contest year after year.
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26OK, so let's go item by item, shall we?
1. "Not designed for desktops". Let's consider for a moment the numerous posts on the Windows 8 Team Blog describing how it's been CAREFULLY designed for desktops. It's clear on that point alone that this item just doesn't have any weight to it. But more importantly, having used it on a desktop and a Macbook Pro, neither of which have touch screens, it's actually really easy to use. So easy, in fact, that I have a great example for later.
2. "Not Enterprise Friendly". Let's ask ourselves: what does it mean for something to be "Enterprise friendly" ? I've worked in IT for 16 years, from desktop support to Systems Engineer, so I'll tell you. Enterprise Friendly means that the OS supports centralized, granular management by IT staff, is easy to customize in terms of features and security via centralized mechanisms, and has extensive documentation and support from either specialized staff or from the vendor. Windows 8 has ALL of these. It's clearly a VERY Enterprise Friendly operating system. So friendly, in fact, that you can still connect it to an Active Directory server from Windows 2000--an OS that released approximately a dozen years ago. I agree that in the short term, not a lot of businesses will adopt Windows 8, but that's because of the hardware, not the UI. Most OS upgrades happen along with hardware upgrades. Over the next 2 years, corporate adoption will be slow, but small businesses will adopt it both for the "ooh, shiny" factor and for the fact that many can't afford not to. Over the following 3-5, corporate adoption will skyrocket. The home PC market will take care of most of the "average worker" learning curve. They'll master the software at home, end of story.
3. "A New UI." This is probably Windows 8's greatest weakness AND its greatest strength. The new UI will intimidate SOME people--but not most people. It's so simple, so elegant, so easy to use, that the vast majority of people will easily understand how to use it. It's the power users and the hangers-on to old tech who will struggle, and they'll have mostly made it difficult for themselves.
Let me give you an example of why it's a good thing, though. I have a friend who's a graphic designer, and has been for about 30 years. He's in his early 50's, and has used Macs for most of his career, but a Windows 7 PC since 2 years ago. A couple of weeks ago, his PC died, and I cobbled together a temporary replacement to hold him over until I can get his motherboard, which died, RMA'd. For the sake of curiosity, I asked if he'd want to try Windows 8 since this was a temporary PC anyway, and he said with a shrug, "why not?" So I configured the system (an old Pentium D 915, 2GB RAM, 320GB 7200RPM hard drive, vs his Core 2 Quad, 8GB RAM, 64GB SSD with 1TB HDD) and installed his programs, gave him a very brief (literally, 10 minutes) tour of Windows 8, and sent him home.
The next day he called me. "Hey, about Windows 8." I got a little nervous as he said that. "Yes? Any problems?" I asked. "No," he replied, "It's ****ing brilliant. What the hell are the specs on this machine, because it's way faster than mine is!" I grinned. "Actually, that's a really old machine, not anywhere close to as fast as yours. How about the UI, any trouble there?" "Hell no," he said, "It's easy. Easiest UI I've ever used. Microsoft finally nailed it." That's from a guy who is 2 things: A graphic designer, and a MAC guy. Seriously.
4. "Desktop and Metro": See above. Microsoft made the right choice. There will be a learning curve, that's an unavoidable fact. But it's not a steep one, in part thanks to training people have already gone through on their *smartphones*, their *ipads*, *ipods*, and to a lesser extent, Android tablets. Touch has already become part of the dialog we have with our computers.
5. "Complex". Are we talking about the same OS? Windows 8 is butt-ass simple. I could choose many, many words to describe Windows 8--not ONE of them is "complex". Are things moved around? Sure. Do some things work differently than in the past? Absolutely. Will people who've been trained and practiced on older versions, and learned to use deep features in those versions, find some frustration? Without a doubt. The average user? They'll be just fine.
On the last point about power, I just called my friend mentioned above to ask, "Hey, have you had any trouble figuring out how to turn off the power on your PC?" His reply? "I don't even mess with it, man, I just walk away and it goes to sleep."
People will adapt just fine. They adapted to Windows 95. They adapted to iPods/iPads/iPhones/Android phones. They'll adopt to this, too. don't be such a worry-wart3
Actually that hasn't been true for a very long time.
All major platforms have many security holes. Windows has proven itself very secure by virtue of the fact that microsoft has been very responsive towards ongoing threats. The changes to windows vista brought about dramatic security enhancements of the underlying OS.
In fact most windows malware aren't vectored into the underlying OS itself, but rather vulnerable third party software such as java, flash, acrobat, etc. Whats interesting is that the design of the OS itself mitigates most of these vulnerabilities, so microsoft is even compensating for the mistakes of other companies.
Windows and Linux are roughly on par with one another in terms of security these days.
However windows has an advantage that other platforms do not: Antivirus software on the windows platform has a heuristics detection rate of 90% of undocumented threats. That is a rate most in the computer security field hadn't anticipated a few years ago. It is so high, that malware authors have begun to target something that is statistically "bigger and easier" to hit: Mac OSX.
Although OSX has a very tiny market share, the chances of a successful attack against mac users is high enough that it is a more attractive target than windows these days. Not only that, but apple is VERY SLOW when it comes to responding to malware threats. The last one took them two months to respond to. That is an eternity in the security field. In addition to that, most Mac OSX users tend to live under the belief that macs don't get hit by viruses (primarily because apple tells them this,) and likewise they don't protect themselves accordingly. Needless to say, this makes them very attractive targets for the criminal underground.
If you don't believe me though, then don't take my word for it. Just look at the results of the pwn2own contest year after year.2Sorry but no. Apple can take their expensively useless products and bury them with their founder.
Too soon.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 22
Oh... that's nice. You might as well ride a horse instead of a car. Guess what, it worked for thousand years. At one point switching from horseback to steam powered carriage was only for the brave, but that was PROGRESS.
And who holds a gun to your head forcing you to use windows 8? Do the things you do the way you do them and leave the rest to people with imagination.
Why 22" tablet? Why not go all the way to 60"? If you could actually read what I was saying, you will see that I never suggested to replace your 22" monitor with a tablet. I personally think that smaller touchscreen (doesn't even need to be a separate tablet) can be a great addition if there is a good integration with desktop OS. Android and IOS can't provide this at the moment. Windows 8 can and hopefully with time there will be more innovative ways of using it.
And guy, I'm not selling you anything! But if you want to know, you won't find much wires at my place.
Keyboard is wireless and gets charged very rarely. Mouse is wireless and battery is replaced once a year or so. Printer is wireless. Sure it is connected to power source, but it is hidden. If I need to print something from my android tablet, I can. I also have bluetooth adapter for audio, so I can use the speakers from any device that I have without touching any cables.
I have three monitors on my desk connected to a full tower rig. You won't find that tower though, because it is in another room, behind a wall. Why? Because I like quiet! Instead of spending hundreds on sophisticated quiet cooling, I just moved my PC from my workplace. All I have are some hidden USB extension cables that I occasionally use.
My both big screen TVs are 0.3" away from the wall. Wires are hidden as well. Connecting additional HDMI source is possible, but inconvenient. I didn't try to make it convenient, because I don't need it.
My point here is that with all the wireless technology that we have, you will be able to, in a blink of an eye, connect your tablet to a keyboard, mouse, printer and big screen without touching a single wire and turn your tablet into a desktop. If you need power, it is a lot more accessible, than other components. And again, if you don't need it, if you don't want it, then stay away from it. I personally don't plan to replace my desktop PC any time soon, but I sure would love to have a 7" touchscreen for metro, next to my keyboard.
Not that long time ago we had laptops that can only go 2 hours while simply working in word document. Now we have smaller, lighter and faster devices that can go 18 hours without charge (how about asus transformer).
We are still talking about controlling big screen tv with your tablet, right? How about this. You go to a hotel room, touch TV remote with your tablet to connect via NFC. You browse netflix movie selection on your tablet. No need to look on big screen and interface is actually faster to use with touch, rather than keyboard and mouse. Then start what you want and enjoy the show on big screen tv via WiDi. You can then pause, play, stop whatever you're watching with tv remote control. You might as well put tablet aside or charge it.
