Tipping is not a donation you don't get to decide if you want to tip or not you have too unless that's the way you feel about donations.
Sent from my powered Shooter E3D with Infection of AnthraX Jamz by wolf.
Donations on XDA: Good or Bad?
- Thread starter freeza
- Start date
Tipping is not a donation you don't get to decide if you want to tip or not you have too unless that's the way you feel about donations.
Sent from my powered Shooter E3D with Infection of AnthraX Jamz by wolf.
I'm a very good tipper, however, unless a 15% gratuity is added to your bill, you are not REQUIRED to tip. Its expected, but not required, and if you don't tip, expect poor service or spit in your food the next time you go to that establishment.
The whole thing about waiters and waitresses was in reference to people saying that some ROM developers don't do much besides use tools of people like dsixda and Jesusfreak, and I said that's like saying a waiter doesn't deserve a tip because they 'only brought you food, made by someone else'. Which clearly I don't agree with
Edit: and if you read my previous posts in this thread, on how I feel about donations...no one should feel obligated to donate to anyone. But if a user feels that they want to show appreciation to anyone here, then by all means, donate whatever to whomever.
But I'm not going to treat anyone differently for donating, not donating, accepting donations or not accepting them. I'm here because I love tweaking and modding and building onto Android. If I get asked for help, time pending, I'll help anyone that I'm capable of helping, regardless of their stance on donations.
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It's all good man. But it's about dudes that have a Big O signature saying or making you feel as if you have to donate because you're using their ("Tweak Out') work, I just avoid them completely their tweak out work is same as others is nothing new really. But you're cool man no disrespect man.
K
knowledge561
Guest
You HAVE to tip????? Last time I checked, tipping is optional. I don't know what you guys are talking about.
No disrespect taken my man.
As I said before, people that are trying to build things strictly for money/donations will quickly realize that, while this community can be very generous, they're not going to be able up quit their day job, and they'll stop making mods/roms/etc out of frustration...unless they develop a passion and enjoyment for the things they're doing. Which will then curb their greedy tendencies
Did you bother reading my response special-k? Lol
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Well that's ridiculous. Here in England waiters and waitresses get paid a standard wage like any job, I have never once been to a place where you could tip.
Sent via carrier pigeon
A recognized dev shouldn't have to debate about donations, your fans should do that for you. Also, I doubt that anybody will donate to a dev who doesn't have a passion for the stuff (which in turn means good work) or does good work but, it's always up to the people to decide who gets the donations.
I don't know if this was a stab at me, but this is a discussion thread. I'm not here asking for anything from anyone.
I've seen a lot of 'good work' come from people that just put it out there because they'd made it. Go check the bottom of the development section. A fair amount of posted work that never got updated nor supported. I'm not saying these works weren't from passionate people, but I know the things I've posted, I support and update as often as I can/is needed. Go check the viperROM thread for confirmation of that.
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pstevep
Retired Senior Mod / Inactive Recognized Themer
I think that we can all agree that we don't think people should ask for donations. If someone wants to donate to another person that is completely up to them. That is just life. If someone wants to give you money, you accept it, or don't, but its up to them to give it. Whether you deserve it or not is up to them to decide, if they want to donate to the guy who just made build.prop edit because they think his rom is the best, that is their prerogative.
With all of that being said, I personally (and this in no way reflects the views of XDA) think that no one should have a donate link in their signature. I don't think they should have a donate link in their OP, I don't think anyone should ask for donations for their work. We all have the ability to have the "Donate to me" button by our avatar, I think that is enough. If someone wants to donate to you, they can click that link, its not hard.
/hands soapbox back to freeza
With all of that being said, I personally (and this in no way reflects the views of XDA) think that no one should have a donate link in their signature. I don't think they should have a donate link in their OP, I don't think anyone should ask for donations for their work. We all have the ability to have the "Donate to me" button by our avatar, I think that is enough. If someone wants to donate to you, they can click that link, its not hard.
/hands soapbox back to freeza
I'm going to find the biggest donate button to put in my sig, just for you
I know that these devs do this stuff for fun, but I believe if someone does an awesome job on some work you should donate, like wtf is 5 or 10 bucks to buy a guy a beer or coffee or a pack of smokes for the countless hours of work they put into these projects? You shouldnt feel obligated to donate, but imagine your phone still stock, these guys aren't asking for much or handouts they have dedicated themselves and worked hard for the benifit of the community, they don't have to share anything with us but they do, so show some appreciate with a thanks or a buck or two if you can spare it 
Welcome to the concept of a world outside of England that doesn't work exactly the same way.
Sent from my EVO 3D S using xda premium
Nope, not a stab at anyone. Just saying that devs here are great.
?you're a recognized dev, you obviously deserve donations. Not everyone is good enough to get recognized dev status.
Sent from my tf9001 with XDA XD.
Welcome to the concept of a world outside of England that doesn't work exactly the same way.
Sent from my EVO 3D S using xda premium
I never said there wasn't, I'm just astonished that America is bad enough to not even offer minimum wage to waiters.
Sent via carrier pigeon
America isn't a country, my friend. It is the name of two continents. And, stop debating about waiters people, it's useless.
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24Let me start off by saying donations are definitely a good thing. However, the nature of donations going on on XDA has got me thinking about a few things:
Do you think too many people want and/or expect donations for little things or things that don't really bring much to the table? Disregard the part at the bottom of their post that makes a lot of people seem righteous "Donations are not required, but are appreciated" something along those lines. Lines like that are what probably make people go "aww" or "wow, this person is really cool" But is it a subliminal tug at your heart strings on purpose? I have always been the kind of person that requires no donations because I don't consider myself bringing nothing really new to the table. More along the lines of bringing alternatives to things that are already on the table.
Most of us would do the things we're doing regardless, so why would you want money for it? I know a ton of people are going to rely on the "I never asked for money" stance, but the fact is, you kinda DO ask for money when donation links are plastered all over your topic.
Take for example someone who truly wanted to dive in and understand how modding Android files worked, how to make a ROM, how to theme a ROM. That person would do those things and probably push out something to the public even IF donations weren't accepted on XDA. In other words, true passion would yield community projects anyway, so why pretend like the donations are to "continue this project" when everyone knows you would continue it anyway? It's not like the people are doing these ROM projects just to get money, or are they? Now, I have seen more and more people wanting donations for slightly modifying things that aren't even open source software, like modifying proprietary HTC/Samsung/Motorola/etc files. Is this fair? Where does the line get drawn between giving donations for someone who truly is developing, and someone who is simply modifying?
I feel that teams like CyanogenMod, TeamWin, people who bring things to our phones that aren't otherwise available such as Beats, xLoud engine, etc. are the ones that truly deserve our money because they are the ones who raise the bar, bring exceptional software, software modifications, and new things to the table. So why then, does someone who downloaded a kitchen made by dsixda, smali/baksmali made by jesusfreke, various tools made by other people, and take information freely available on the internet written by other people expect, want, or even secretly want donations?
Chad Goodman is a perfect example of someone who truly does warrant having donations sent his way, but instead is satisfied with a mere thanks and appreciation from the community for his kernel development.
What are your thoughts on donating to people for something like a ROM that was for the most part completed by HTC? I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later people started expecting donations for giving out information on upcoming phones. There are a ton of true developers that aren't "in your face" and are more behind the scenes that never really get recognized for their brilliance that should deserve our donations, thanks, and appreciation, but in the mix of so many 'developers' they seem to go forgotten.
I learn things for my own satisfaction and to make my phone better, and if I feel like anything I have done to my device can benefit the community that a lot of it I learned from, then I will most certainly share it without any financial compensation direct or indirect. I for one will never accept donations from the community I share things with that I would do for myself anyway, unless I feel that I truly am helping to raise the bar nor will I make it feel like their donation is what drives my continued support on a project, because let's face it- if a donation is what drives you to learn more and share with the public, you probably don't deserve the donation to begin with.5Instead of posting a long message, which I actually had typed up, I would rather say this:
People like newtoroot and twistedumbrella deserve donations. Why?
-newt fixed data and Wi-Fi on Sense 4.0; something No other developer has done
-twisted has been working tirelessly on things like camera and USB storage for ICS ROMs. He is attempting to make something work from nothing.
Most people that develop do NOT deserve donations. Why?
-Almost every single ROM that is released is "optimized"
-Almost every single ROM that is released has "battery tweaks"
-Almost every single ROM that is released has "speed tweaks"
-Almost every single ROM that is released includes the above and is themed.
I personally believe that the line to draw is whether something is being created or not. I don't like the term "cut-and-paste" developers, but for a lot of people, I would say that it is applicable. I understand that everyone wants their shot at fame, and that's fine. Post all of the work that you want. I just think that those works won't be able to set themselves apart from the work that makes Android special. Like:
-The CyanogenMod project
-MIUI
-Sense 4.0 development on a phone that will never get Sense 4.0
Those are the works that deserve donations, in my opinion. CM has to maintain build servers for the myriad of devices they support; MIUI is a port from a foreign language ROM that provides an experience unlike no other on Android, and it is a massive undertaking; and the Sense 4.0 development has required new devices to be purchased, and new methods of making things work to be devised.
I think that if you are handed something where everything works and you decide to add your own enhancements for it, that you do not deserve money for that. HTC releases an update where everything works, and people add more features that may break those things. The people working on those aren't making any magic happening. I do not mean to offend anyone, but in my experience with most ROMs, well.. the experience hasn't been too different. Except for the first time I used CyanogenMod. Or the first time I used MIUI. Or the first time I used Sense 3.0 on my OG Evo. Or just the other day, when I was able to use Sense 4.0 on my Evo 3D. I've used Warm, Eternity, ViperROM, MeanROM, Android Revolution, CleanROM, SupraROM.. many, many ROMs. But I have never felt any sort of spark from them. I've enjoyed them, and used them plenty, but I haven't stopped and looked at my phone and said, "Wow, this is something special."
I think that it is perfectly okay to provide a donation link, no matter who you are. If you are going to require donations to "keep working", well, I think that is wrong, but that is your decision. If you need money in order to work on these phones, you should consider finding a profession in this stuff. If you are working on ROMs and you need money in order to do it, then you shouldn't be doing it. This isn't supposed to be about making a living (if you want to do that, make apps). It's about being part of a community that shares.
If you want money, that's fine. I want money. Who doesn't want money? It'd be neat to be able to make a little money on the side sharing work. But don't release something to the community EXPECTING to be paid for it. That's not what this is about.
If you want to donate, that's fine too. It's your money. Just think about where you're putting it. If you truly believe that someone deserves the money, then give it to them. Just don't expect your money to mean much in the long run.4Here's my take on Donations...
What any one person chooses to do with his or her money is entirely up to them.
What any one person chooses to do with his or her signature/avatar is up to them as well. (So long as it stays within Forum Rules, but even then it's still up to them, they'll just get the ban hammer if they post something against the rules )
I, currently as I'm posting this, have a Donation link in my signature, which I will probably remove now. The only reason it was put there was because people were asking for a link, I didn't have one, and I didn't know how to put the link in my avatar, (which I've figured out now) so I just created a quick link and threw it on there.
Now, the only reason I put it there was because people were asking for it. But in all seriousness, how can someone buy someone a beer or coffee around here if there isn't a link? So I had no issue putting it on there.
But, as to the issue on saying things like "Not necessary but welcome" or the like... I've said and can be quoted in multiple threads saying the same thing. The issue isn't the saying, it's the genuine feeling behind the saying. If you're sincere in that, then you truly do not care if anyone donates. You can write that all day, but if you don't truly feel that way, then you might as well just put up there "Give me money for doing this." I, personally, say what I mean... a man's word is only as good as he makes it to be. Everything I post is honest and truthful (to the best of my knowledge at least ) and I stick to my word.
Now, I, personally, have donated to those that have helped me on my path of development. I don't, however, expect anyone to donate to me though just because I might help them out with their development... Just being able to help someone is enough for me. But, if they want to donate, I'm not against it, and I'm not going to make it difficult to do so... They shouldn't get frustrated trying to do something nice, just trying to get a way to get the donation to me...
To me, I think more like sitting around a bar, I give someone some great advice on what they were having troubles with, they say "Hey, thanks a lot!" I'm turning to walk away and they stop me and Offer to buy me a drink. That's a donation.
Now, sitting at a restaurant, you get your food/drinks, you pay the bill, and what else? a Tip... While you're not paying for the food, and it's just a little more on top... That's NOT a donation. Tips are somewhat expected and how most waiter/waitresses make their money. Everyone knows that so there's even a general Percentage that is publicly "acceptable" to give. Or when the bagboy helps bring all your luggage to your room for you at a hotel... Also... not a donation. So when people start posting donation links in their threads or signature and make them big, or post things like, hey if I helped you, donate, or buy me a beer or whatever they have there, then they are the bagboy asking for money. There's the unspoken word there saying yeah, I helped you out, so you should pay me for it...
In my opinion, that's crossing the line. XDA is an open development community. If you're developing something for profits, I wish you the best of luck with it, but in my opinion, this isn't the place for that kind of thing...3I believe donations are good. People can say that many ROM developers are 'just using tools made by someone else and doesn't warrant a donation', but that's like saying a waiter(ess) doesn't deserve a tip because all they did was bring out food that someone else cooked.
I have a donation link because its not up to me to decide if something I've posted (roms, mods, themes, or advice) is worthy of a donation. That is up to the end user that uses what I've made/modded or benefits from my advice.
Anyone that thinks they're going to make a lot of money developing on xda, and only does it for this reason, will quickly find out that that isn't going to happen, and quit. Its a self-weeding system.
I do the things I do on xda because I like to help people and others have helped me in the past, so I'm paying it forward. But if someone feels that what I've done warrants a thanks or a donation, that is up to them. If they donate, I'll put it towards my next device, if no one donates, I'll just buy my own device myself so I can continue doing what I enjoy.
But someone having or not having a donation link isn't going to change my opinion of anyone. I've seen a few people in this thread alone say "hey freeza doesn't have a donation link, he's really cool"...why? Why does him not having a donation link make him cool?
What makes freeza a cool/good guy is his willingness to help others and share whatever projects he's worked on with the community. Not because he doesn't accept donations2
Definitely not unstable in any way. This topic is only meant to spark discussion, not take away from developers. I really am looking for a reason that so many people put donation links up all over the place if they do it for the love of learning; with the exception of developers.
