This is why we can't have nice things

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HHF2

HHF2

Senior Member
Dec 21, 2010
351
92
Chadbourn, NC
This is a great thread that a lot of people should read before they ever post. The big problem is that the people that really need to read it, won't. That is the whole problem, they don't read and then expect someone to get them out of the jam that they are in immediately, not in 5 minutes, but RIGHT THEN!
 
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Neverendingxsin

Neverendingxsin

Senior Member
Dec 21, 2009
2,173
1,182
Virginia
Obaterista93 said:
But I bet you also don't dirty flash, then complain to the developer when you have issues. Personally, I dirty flash more than I probably should. But if I ever have issues I go back and clean flash and try and reproduce before reporting them. I can't even tell you the number of times I've had to tell people not to complain about issues if they're dirty flashing.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

And your bet would be correct. If I dirty flash and have any issues I'll make a simple post letting others know and make sure to say I'm going to try clean flashing. Unless you clean flash you should never complain about bugs, even if you flash a different kernel you still shouldn't because there's no way of knowing what caused the issues.




Also the rootbox thread is locked again which not only proves my point but also reinforces it.
 
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pwhoeler

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2012
93
28
NJ
@Never- Thanks for this thread, its 100% spot on. I start every one of my "i'm an idiot please help me!" threads with the disclaimer: I have searched for this answer and either have not found it or am too stupid to properly search. On average maybe 1 of 20 issues can't be solved by reading through a previous thread.

On facebook and a couple of forums I am a condescending and downright hateful troll, but I respect XDA because of the selfless developers, dedicated moderators, and knowledgeable user base......as well as the euphoric feeling I get when I can actually help someone, although finding someone as technologically pathetic as me is rare.

A part of me dies every time I see a new "Should I get this phone?!" thread, or go through a help post and find the comments are nothing but dozens of users asking the same question instead of reading ANY OTHER COMMENT to find there's already a solution.

Thanks again for this thread, it was as cathartic to read it as I'm sure it was to write it :)
 
barrackOBAMA

barrackOBAMA

Senior Member
Jan 17, 2013
629
366
I could write a novel on rooting and and ROMs for the galaxy nexus and s3 thanks to XDA.

I have had about every problem possible on my gs3 but over came all of them thanks to help of the community and devs.

I could not be more thankful to XDA .

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
 
ShhImSleeping

ShhImSleeping

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2013
78
14
I actually saw a dude once tell a kernel dev to update his kernel... I couldn't believe it. ETA's, yeah I can see, noobs get curious and give in and ask it's inevitable, but demand an update? lol
 
ImgBurn

ImgBurn

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2011
172
120
West Of Phily South Jersey
Neverendingxsin, Amen Brother :highfive:
Your Post should be required reading for all new members.:fingers-crossed:



Just a thought


XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working
together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.

Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE
JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
 
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Neverendingxsin

Neverendingxsin

Senior Member
Dec 21, 2009
2,173
1,182
Virginia
ImgBurn said:
Neverendingxsin, Amen Brother :highfive:
Your Post should be required reading for all new members.:fingers-crossed:



Just a thought


XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working
together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.

Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE
JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Thanks :)

I really did not expect this thread to get so many views or replies. I thought it would just get looked over and lost, but i'm glad to see that its been going strong and that people are reading it :)
 
Sycobob

Sycobob

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2011
278
53
35
Baton Rouge, LA
As much as I support and agree with the message of this thread, nothing will ever change with anything less than a complete paradigm shift. Expecting the mods to really crack down on people not following the rules is too much work to ask from a handful of volunteers (though they could monitor created threads more vigilantly. A good solution would be giving dev thread creators power over their own threads, with the ability to delete posts, block specific users from posting, and request infractions. Some things that could help with this: users with infractions within 90 days can't post in development threads (or can only post in Q&A), infractions and bans can be used far more liberally than they currently are (arguing should be an instant infraction or temp ban).

As it stands now, the forums are effectively uncontrolled, with mods stepping in only occasionally to remove strings of pointless posts. I love what XDA stands for, and the freedom it allows it's members, but it could use some modicum of order and civility. Enforcing the rules will make it easier on both developers by keeping their threads clean (if they want), and users to actually keep track of relevant information in dev threads, and just have a greater density of worthwhile content.

That's just my two cents, but hey, I could be completely off-base because I'm rarely even on the forums anymore for exactly the reasons stated in the OP (which I read, promise).
 
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scrapbox119

Member
Apr 16, 2012
10
2
Starlight, Indiana
THANK YOU!!!!!!

Let me add (and of course I didnt read to see if someone else posted it so forgive me) Do you KNOW how freakin hard it is to FIND a simple answer having to read other peoples stupid questions in the wrong places. as well as so called "experts" posting nonsense "solutions" that do not even apply to the topic.

I have been playing hell for months TRYING to follow protocol wading through people that cant follow the guidelines or read FAQ's Stickies or their owners manual for that matter.

If you cant go through a technical forum without at least reading the FAQ's & guidelines, you shouldn't be there.... for that matter have a smartphone..... Or a calculator.... or a digital watch, sharp objects, silly putty etc!

...Sorry, I know Not MY rant, just got me going.
 
Neverendingxsin

Neverendingxsin

Senior Member
Dec 21, 2009
2,173
1,182
Virginia
scrapbox119 said:
THANK YOU!!!!!!

Let me add (and of course I didnt read to see if someone else posted it so forgive me) Do you KNOW how freakin hard it is to FIND a simple answer having to read other peoples stupid questions in the wrong places. as well as so called "experts" posting nonsense "solutions" that do not even apply to the topic.

I have been playing hell for months TRYING to follow protocol wading through people that cant follow the guidelines or read FAQ's Stickies or their owners manual for that matter.

If you cant go through a technical forum without at least reading the FAQ's & guidelines, you shouldn't be there.... for that matter have a smartphone..... Or a calculator.... or a digital watch, sharp objects, silly putty etc!

...Sorry, I know Not MY rant, just got me going.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

It's all good man :) the more the merrier ;)
 
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    Neverendingxsin
    Neverendingxsin
    Firstly i'll admit this may come off as a rant, but i will be making some valid points that i believe need to be addressed :)

    Secondly, i really don't care if anybody finds this offensive because well points need to be made and sometimes they have to be bluntly made.

    Thirdly, i'm sure many of you will agree with me on these points.

    Fourthly, @Mods i understand this may come off a bit harsh to some people but again things need to be said.

    Finally, please enjoy this read :)

    Well here's the story of how i ended up writing this thread, ever since the Galaxy S3 came out many of you probably noticed that i was constantly helping people every single day, basically answering the same questions day in and day out. For a while i was fine with that, but the past few months i've almost ceased posting entirely, why you ask? Because answering the same questions everyday when their are plenty of stickies, and plenty of threads already asking those exact questions just got tiring and frustrating. Its very simple to search the forums as well as google, and to post a thread asking about a problem that can be answered by simply looking 1 to 5 threads down is just laziness and not needed. I understand people want answers quickly, but sometimes where you post these issues becomes an issue as well.

    Issues #1: READ THE ORIGINAL POST (OP)

    Example A: Bajee11 brought rootbox to our phones, and now he's closed his thread. Why? Because people couldn't just read the original post and keep non-development talk out of his thread.

    Thread can be found here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2134052

    If you read his original post right below the downloads section is a Non-development | Discussion | Support banner in big bold letters with a link to where non-development talk should be discussed, simple enough to read and understand. Its not hidden away at all, so their should be no reason why somebody can't see it.

    What happened? Somebody flashed the i9300 (european) rom onto their i535 (verizon) phone. And essentially bricked the phone (wouldn't boot up) and that user posted about it asking for support. (ALL posts in their have since been removed so i can't show them to you but please take my word for it)

    At this point, support should not be asked in the developers thread when he's stated not to post non development stuff in his thread.

    But that's now what happened, people started helping him which is nice to do, but again in the wrong place. And posts continued which clogged up the thread and made things more difficult. Eventually the developer asked that it be stopped and taken somewhere else so that his thread wasn't clogged up with that junk, and this is what happened.

    Originally Posted by Internet Guy
    Don't be a ****. This forum is here to not only provide Roms and various tools for android users, but also to provide help when needed.

    Take a chill pill, friend.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

    Bajee11: Dude, this is my thread so I expect the rules to be followed. I have over 20 threads to maintain and I don't want to come back here for every single post when it's not development related. You guys have no clue how hard it is to track bugs when users don't follow any rules and specially when you got several devices to maintain. Not only do you not know what a development thread is, you even take on me for pointing out this not the right place for bricked phone discussion? This is why XDA has different sections for these kind of things and users like you should learn that. Anyways, closing thread.

    Sent from my SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    Somebody goes and decides to challenge him instead of being respectful and taking NON ROM DEVELOPMENT talk somewhere else, it could've easily been dealt with in PM's, or searching the forum, or help me god making yet another thread about it.

    This user that had an issue could've solved his problem by simply looking at this sticky thread: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2079399


    Why is this a problem?
    Well quite frankly the people that were using the Rootbox rom now have to sit, wait and wonder whether support will continue for D2VZW or if they should move on, just because some people couldn't read the OP and follow the simple requests, and had to feel the need to then challenge the OP instead of just respecting him.

    Oh but that only applies to one rom my rom is fine
    Have you ever tried to figure what bugs are in a rom only to be forced to read a million posts that aren't related to that rom at all but instead somebody doing something stupid resulting in user error not rom error? I know i have, its so frustrating to have to skim through 20 pages when in reality if people could keep things where they belong we wouldn't have that issue. Once you flash something that's not stock on the rom, ANY BUGS that occur are not the roms fault, because their is no way of knowing whether whatever you flashed caused it or not.

    Flash a different kernel, then have x,y,z errors? Post in the KERNEL thread about it, i guarantee you'll get more kernel support their than in the Rom thread. You could make a simple post in the Rom thread and say "hey guys i flashed X kernel and now Y isn't working, just letting others know" Bam end of story, its simple, alerts other users and keeps thing clean.

    Okay so that's one post but i see a million of them, okay well lets say User A posts that, then users B-Y post irrelevant nonsense then user Z posts the same thing as A, that's why you see it a bunch. Because B-Y or a combination had irrelevant information in their posts.

    Solutions:
    Option 1: I realize this is hard but please people have some respect and self control and keep posts where they are relevant. Or maybe the mod's should just start warning/giving infractions to people that can't obey the rules and have some damn respect when a developer asks you to please take business somewhere else.


    Option 2: Instead of cluttering up the development thread, go make some thread in Q/A even though that'll go against my second issue it'll be better than clogging up relevant rom information/development, that users want to see. I'm sorry but if you brick your phone flashing something that's not meant for your phone that your own damn fault for not reading what you're download and flashing.

    Option 3: If you can't read the OP then you shouldn't be rooting your phone. Honestly folks its not hard to read the OP, its their for a reason, not for you to skip down to the downloads link, flash the rom, and then say "X and Y are missing" when in the OP it clearly states they aren't there. And what do you know that's one more useless post.

    Time for me to take a breath...

    Issue #2: Not using the search function

    I realize this may be hard for people to understand but its their for a reason, not to just look pretty. Its sole purpose is to try and keep things clean and help users to find helpful information. How many of you use google search everyday? i know i do, probably over 100 times a day and its very helpful, so i KNOW that you other users have used a search engine before, so why not use the one on XDA? Its not rocket science and its got plenty of options to help you narrow stuff down.

    Hell even before you post a thread, it'll automatically search for relevant threads related to your title.

    Notice: When you enter a thread title the system will search for similar threads which have already been posted. That should help you to find answers.
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    Now tell me are you blind, or do you choose to ignore it? I'm guessing its the second one. Or maybe people are too lazy to just read the titles of threads, i guarantee you whatever issue you are having somebody else has had and already got an answer for it. Obviously we can't force people to use it, but please people, google is your friend, the search bar is your friend.

    Solutions:
    Option 1: Up the post requirement for development sections, i know i know this probably will be hated but its clear that it's needed. People still can't seem to just get it right anymore. Maybe if they have to spend a little more time actually using the forum they'll actually start to realize all these helpful things around them.

    Option 2: Can we just start banning people? haha i kid i kid. But seriously, can we give Rom developers the right to edit posts in their respective threads, so if they deem something as pointless, then bam deleted :)


    At this point i'm out of breath and tired from staring at the screen.

    But i'll leave with this 99% of errors are user errors not rom errors. Yes that's right i'm blaming the users, because hey its your fault for messing something up. I flash rom's everyday and yet i don't have these crazy errors that others have, but hey i'm flashing stuff that's meant for my phone ;) People really need to stop being dumb and start reading the OP it contains so much information, i swear some of you will flashing anything even if in the OP it states "THIS WILL DESTROY YOUR PHONE" and guess what, you'll flash it anyways because you're too lazy to take ONE minute to read it. You could read while making your nandroid backup, oh hey that's a great idea :) And when you have an issue, just use the search function.

    I understand we were all noobs at once, but still... like i said, most issues are user error.

    TLTR:
    -Please read OP's
    -Please use the search bar
    -Please post issues in their respective threads
    -Please don't post irrelevant nonsense in development threads, that's not the place for it.
    -Please if you flash anything not stock with the rom, don't blame the rom.
    -Please post rom issues in rom threads, and kernel issues in kernel threads.
    -Please if you do something stupid, keep it out of the rom/kernel thread.
    -Please read stickies, they contain more information than your heart desires and will help you in the long run.
    -Please try and understand where i am coming from :)

    Oh and again, i don't care if i offended some of you.

    -NeverEndingXsin
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    7
    bajee11
    bajee11
    Well the issue didn't stop there. Here's the email the concerned user sent me after I closed the thread. For ethical reasons, I wont post his name.

    This is totally uunacceptable behavior from a so called dev. You need to learn how to speek and have some respect. If you can't deal with someone making a mistake with YOUR OWN ROM, then not only should you NOT be a dev but, you don't belong here at ALL! Myself and along with everyone involed in your disrespectfullness have request you be BlackListed.
    Good Bye and go back to were EVER IT is you came from. We don't want you here! And take you Nexus style rom with you.

    PS:Mr Development. ... This is SGS3 Developement thread, not Nexus. If we wanted a phone to look like that we would have bought one. Not rom it to look like one.
    So take your **** rom and go.
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    It's reasonable to assume that this user has no clue what development is. :good:
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    7
    luis86dr
    luis86dr
    :rolleyes:
    View
    4
    Obaterista93
    Obaterista93
    *starts slow clap*

    Sent from FBI Headquarters
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    4
    bajee11
    bajee11
    scarygood536 said:
    With all due respect, at the end of the day it's the internet. All you can do is report. If developers aren't staying around because a few bad apples that's their choice, oh well life is full of disappointments. If it were me, Being on a public forum I'd expect such none sense from people. Why take it to heart? People need to grow thicker skins. Some developers remind me of a teenage daddy's girl not getting their way. It's frustrating as well. No I'm not talking about the event that happened in OP, I didn't see the indecent. I mean in general for as long as I been here I've seen some dramatic dismissals. I mean no disrespect, I appreciate the hard voluntary work each puts in and I never had a problem with the way they run things. Seems logical your thread your rules. When someone neglects the rules report them. Whining doesn't seem to get us anywhere. We are a community and should work together as such by reporting and correcting peoples ways. We have moderators to correct such errors, but we can help. To be honest, I feel threads like this escalate the problem by having on more threads hiding the actual threads people are looking for. Such concerns could easily been sent to a moderator for negotiations. If the people who are fault don't search, read the post, etc..., then they aren't going to read this thread or be concerned about changing their ways. Sorry if I hurt feelings, Came off as being rude, be insensitive, cold hearted, or whatever you want to call it. I'll admit I been guilty of not always using the search, but I usually look on the first couple of pages for answers to my questions. As long as people try we'll be alright.

    I hope that developer continues to develop for our phone as that thread alone looked amazing. Sucks a few bad apples ruined it, but maybe he'll come back realizing the positive impact he could have on our community. Him and other developers should know we do respect and appreciate their work.
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    countryfolk07 said:
    A lot of devs ARE teenagers! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
    I'm sorry, had to say that!

    Sent from my slightly modded........... phone.
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    Nah. I ain't no kid. Just tired of these noobs. What's the point of offering them a thread if I can't track bugs on it. Builds will continue without a thread, that's all.
    View

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