Possible release date and price for Incredible 4G LTE

Batttie · Jun 13, 2012

Senryo said:
Could you explain why "unlimited data" is unsustainable? I still can't find a reasoning that's logical without an attempt to make additional money. My main questions are: does data transfer cause any maintenance requirements where more data = more maintenance? Are tower connections capped below the number of people that could potentially use it anyway, making large crisis calls unreliable? What makes cell-tower internet fundamentally different than land connection (dial-up, DSL, cable, T1...)?

It just seems... maybe not rude, but teasing that a company would offer internet that is as-good-as if not better than average home connections and then suddenly cap the alloted usage for it. Why implement the system at all? I don't see a point to going 100mph if I'm only allowed to drive an hour...

its unsustainable because service provides do not have enough hardware installed to handle the volume of usage that unlimited brings to the table.. everyone has limits, even home providers altho its extremely high ~300 g per month. It slows down the network for everyone when people take it to the extremes, and with the fact that everything streams now, service providers do not have the hardware installed to handle 100,000 people streaming high definition t.v shows @ 7.pm lol....

What i find as a **** move tho is that they forced us to get data to start with to make money.... remember the "premium phones" a few years ago, you had to have $10 data package and it was worthless.... no apps, browsing the net was horrible, but because it had "VCast" it was premium..... B.S! the alternative was a better phone with unlimited, which at the time the usuage was so low it was no big deal. Now since everyone is hooked on mobile data, lets take it away from you and charge you more... Thats a **** move IMHO.. Sure cap me if i go above reasonable amounts of data for long periods of time, but don't force me to pay more!!

kzoodroid · Jun 13, 2012

Senryo said:
Could you explain why "unlimited data" is unsustainable? I still can't find a reasoning that's logical without an attempt to make additional money. My main questions are: does data transfer cause any maintenance requirements where more data = more maintenance? Are tower connections capped below the number of people that could potentially use it anyway, making large crisis calls unreliable? What makes cell-tower internet fundamentally different than land connection (dial-up, DSL, cable, T1...)?

It just seems... maybe not rude, but teasing that a company would offer internet that is as-good-as if not better than average home connections and then suddenly cap the alloted usage for it. Why implement the system at all? I don't see a point to going 100mph if I'm only allowed to drive an hour...

Bandwidth is a finite resource not unlimited. One analogy used to describe it is that it's like a water line, only so much can come out of it and the more people that draw off of it the slower it gets. So if everyone was drawing 20 - 50 GB a month out it could potentially come to a crawl especially in larger metropolitan areas. This is what happened to AT&T and the iPhone where initially in large cities like New York and San Francisco the demand for bandwidth far exceed the supply. So they had to invest 10's of millions of dollars into their infrastructure to meet the demand. This isn't any different than cable or fiber optics, the line can only carry so much bandwidth and the farther you are away from the junction and the more who draw off of it the slower your speeds.

boomn · Jun 13, 2012

Senryo said:
What makes cell-tower internet fundamentally different than land connection (dial-up, DSL, cable, T1...)?

Each "cell" in a cellular network is pretty similar to a wifi hotspot in that everyone connected to that tower shares the bandwidth of the "backhaul" data cable connected to the internet. To increase available bandwidth per user the cell providers have to get less people on each tower which means installing more towers closer together. They already do vary the density of tower installations a lot based on population density (i.e. a big city will have a lot more towers per area than a rural town) but towers and T1 lines are expensive and increasing the tower density nationwide isn't going to happen quickly or cheaply unfortunately.

Senryo · Jun 13, 2012

The bandwidth answers are very enlightening, thank you.

boomn said:
Each "cell" in a cellular network is pretty similar to a wifi hotspot in that everyone connected to that tower shares the bandwidth of the "backhaul" data cable connected to the internet. To increase available bandwidth the cell providers have to get less people on each tower which means installing more towers closer together. They already do vary the density of tower installations a lot based on population density (i.e. a big city will have a lot more towers per area than a rural town) but towers and T1 lines are expensive and increasing the tower density nationwide isn't going to happen quickly or cheaply.

That answers that question and the previous question to it. Basically they have more users on their network than they can actually host and hope that most of them won't need to use the service at the same time. And now that more are using the service at the same time, they're caught with their pants down by not adapting to a new average case.

Thanks for my little jaunt off topic.

Seems this will be my last Verizon phone. I'm starting to think pre-pay is a better option, but it could be these silly rose-colored glasses. The most reliable network doesn't seem so reliable anymore haha. Come on Inc4g! I don't really want a GSIII.

LyndenP · Jun 13, 2012

boomn said:
Each "cell" in a cellular network is pretty similar to a wifi hotspot in that everyone connected to that tower shares the bandwidth of the "backhaul" data cable connected to the internet. To increase available bandwidth per user the cell providers have to get less people on each tower which means installing more towers closer together. They already do vary the density of tower installations a lot based on population density (i.e. a big city will have a lot more towers per area than a rural town) but towers and T1 lines are expensive and increasing the tower density nationwide isn't going to happen quickly or cheaply unfortunately.

Also the bandwidth is only as much as the backhaul can handle. I just got LTE out at my house. Which is the North side of the Denver metro area, kinda in the boonies. The reason we didn't have it sooner? Centrylink just finished up running their fiber lines out here. I'm sure they provide the backhaul in this area. Which means Verizon is using the same fiber line Centrylink is using for their home internet. So you can see how bandwidth quickly becomes finite.

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kzoodroid · Jun 13, 2012

Senryo said:
Seems this will be my last Verizon phone. I'm starting to think pre-pay is a better option, but it could be these silly rose-colored glasses. The most reliable network doesn't seem so reliable anymore haha. Come on Inc4g! I don't really want a GSIII.

I'm thinking of switching too as the cheapest plan I can get with my upgrade in July will be for $90 a month, a $10 per month increase and only 1 GB of data. If this phone comes out on the 28th or later I'm going to keep my Inc and stick with my old unlimited plan and just suck it up that I'll never get a new phone on Verizon. I'm even seriously considering T-Mobile and the One S even though TMo blows.

LyndenP · Jun 13, 2012

kzoodroid said:
I'm thinking of switching too as the cheapest plan I can get with my upgrade in July will be for $90 a month, a $10 per month increase and only 1 GB of data. If this phone comes out on the 28th or later I'm going to keep my Inc and stick with my old unlimited plan and just suck it up that I'll never get a new phone on Verizon. I'm even seriously considering T-Mobile and the One S even though TMo blows.

Verizon is keeping it's individual plans along with the tiered data plans starting at 2GB.

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boomn · Jun 13, 2012

LyndenP said:
Verizon is keeping it's individual plans along with the tiered data plans starting at 2GB.

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I wish they would officially and clearly state that then! Unfortunately they haven't that I've seen. Yesterday they let the whole world of tech journalists fill the internet with articles about affordable individual smartphone plans going away and haven't released any correction or comment on these articles, and before that we had quotes like this from their CFO at an investor's meeting less than a month ago:

"LTE is our anchor point for data share, so as you come through an upgrade cycle and you upgrade in the future, you will have to go onto the data share plan, moving away from the unlimited world," Shammo said to investors.

"So when you think about our 3G base - a lot of our 3G base is unlimited - as they start to migrate into 4G, they will have to come off of unlimited and go into the data share plan."

kzoodroid · Jun 14, 2012

LyndenP said:
Verizon is keeping it's individual plans along with the tiered data plans starting at 2GB.

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From what I've read they are pushing everyone who signs up for new service or upgrades into shared data plans and eliminating everything else. Shared data is for 1 to 10 lines. For one phone its $40 for unlinited text and minutes + $50 for 1GB of data = $90. Cheapest plan under the new formula. My old plan, $40 for 450 minutes + $10 for 1000 texts + $30 for unlimited data will no longer exist, you will not have the option to pick and choose details of an individual plan anymore. Its a flat rate $40 per phone fro everyone then data starts at $50 for 1 GB and goes up. Thats all you can choose from.

http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/55028254

Fran Shammo, CFO of Verizon Communications, which owns a controlling share of Verizon Wireless, first revealed the change Wednesday at an industry conference and it was first reported by Fierce Wireless, an online publication.

Verizon is expanding the latest generation of its wireless network, called 4G LTE. Customers wanting to upgrade phones from their current 3G data plan to use 4G LTE will be required to sign on to Verizon's new data-share plan to be introduced this summer, Shammo said.

The data-share plan, whose pricing hasn't been announced, will provide a limited bucket of data that can be shared among family members or devices.

"As you upgrade in the future, you will have to go onto the data-share plan," Shammo said. "A lot of our 3G base is unlimited. As they start to migrate into 4G, they will have to … go into the data-share plan. And that is beneficial for us."

LyndenP · Jun 14, 2012

Here is a link to the article Verizon linked to on its Facebook page. Its on Droid life and I know how people feel about them... And I have a reliable source that tells me the same.

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Edit: link
http://www.droid-life.com/2012/06/1...w-share-everything-data-plans/?cmp=SOC-000679

LyndenP · Jun 14, 2012

LyndenP said:
If you come to the end of a contract after June 28 and choose to upgrade at a discounted price, you will have to leave your unlimited data plan. At that time, you have a couple of choices for plans through Verizon. There will apparently be individual plans that start at $30 for 2GB of data and then of course, these new Share Everything plans. In some cases, it may be cheaper for you to purchase individual accounts than go with a Share Everything. For example, if Verizon is offering a double data promo for individual accounts ($30 for 4GB of data). If that time comes though, you will want to pull out the calculator and do the math to find your best option.

That's the important part of the article.

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kzoodroid · Jun 14, 2012

LyndenP said:
That's the important part of the article.

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Still not much of a bargain if its true as it would mean I will be reduced to 2GB of data for the same price I pay now for unlimited. I wish they'd just put out a pricing structure for everything and get it done with. If they keep the $40 flat rate for unlimited talk and text as an indivdual option then it would be worth it. I thought this was all about simplifying their plan structure?

Batttie · Jun 14, 2012

I think the unlimited talk and text is just wool to cover our eyes. I already have both with my unlimited data thanks to Google voice.. I'll never give up my unlimited.. never I say!

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cac2us · Jun 14, 2012

Whet about OFF Peak Data???

kzoodroid said:
Still not much of a bargain if its true as it would mean I will be reduced to 2GB of data for the same price I pay now for unlimited. I wish they'd just put out a pricing structure for everything and get it done with. If they keep the $40 flat rate for unlimited talk and text as an indivdual option then it would be worth it. I thought this was all about simplifying their plan structure?

It seems to simplify things for VZW. $$$$
It still punishes the user that want's upgrade at a discount and keep unlimited.
If peak bandwidth is what's causing all the pain, why not offer OFF peak data rate?

There can't too much going on at 03:00.
Here at the RV park when all the "Visitors" go to bed I do all my downloads.
At 6:00 to 10:00 PM, forget it. I have to use my unlimited data plan.
I still use only 700 mb. a month.
When I was with QWest I got "Notified" when I got up to 12 GB. LOL

There is just NO excuse for gouging the end user to cover the perks that are being offered to the corporate world.

GREED_GREED_GREED

Unfortunately, I see that this might go the way of the Lexicon, They will support it "IF you can find one...Ha Ha.
I would love to have one If I didn't have to bow down so far and hop all the hoops.

ohredwood · Jun 14, 2012

I don't want to get too far off topic but part of my post deals with that as well. I personally don't get a warm and fuzzy with an upgrade before June 28th. I was eligible like Apr 3 or something but was really kinda eyeing this new Inc 4G.

I don't think the greedy sob's over at Verizon are stupid, I'm sure it comes down to they see a huge demand for data, surfing, whatever, and they want in on it. The date of release on this phone has been so stupidly silent, it's frustrating. My gut tells me that it's gonna get released about the 28th of June, coincidentally the same time as their stupid new plans, that we wanted so bad, (yea right). Which means guess what, you will be paying 4-6 franklins for this phone if you want your unlimited data unscathed.

I also gotta say for one, I remain skeptical on the posts of folks preordering the GSIII, and looking to return it so they can get a Inc 4G, I just don't see that Verizon would be that stupid to allow the flood gates open for unlimited data on the 21st or by a loophole preorder, to allow the very thing they want to squash. My guess is when those folks return those GSIII's they will be paying not only a restock fee but their contract date will roll forward, which means shared data or full price of phone.

Not looking to get flamed and I don't work for Verizon, and I really hope to hell I'm wrong, but I really think they are delaying this for more than Apples bs.

On a side note, I do have the orig Inc, with unlimited data, stbxw has a stupid phone, and I think she is wanting to get on of those lame iphones. My question is, I would like to get the inc 4G, and hopefully before the 28th. Am I in a time crunch here to get us off this shared family plan now?? I don't want to possibly end up getting the Inc 4g, and somehow keep my unlimited data, only to have a divorce final in 6 weeks, and walk into Verizon store and find my individual plan now will be a shared data or lose my unlimited data process. Anybody have any thoughts on this, just wondering if the pressure is on to get on individual plans now or before the 28th that is...

Appreciate it...

NightxFall · Jun 14, 2012

ohredwood said:
I don't want to get too far off topic but part of my post deals with that as well. I personally don't get a warm and fuzzy with an upgrade before June 28th. I was eligible like Apr 3 or something but was really kinda eyeing this new Inc 4G.

I don't think the greedy sob's over at Verizon are stupid, I'm sure it comes down to they see a huge demand for data, surfing, whatever, and they want in on it. The date of release on this phone has been so stupidly silent, it's frustrating. My gut tells me that it's gonna get released about the 28th of June, coincidentally the same time as their stupid new plans, that we wanted so bad, (yea right). Which means guess what, you will be paying 4-6 franklins for this phone if you want your unlimited data unscathed.

I also gotta say for one, I remain skeptical on the posts of folks preordering the GSIII, and looking to return it so they can get a Inc 4G, I just don't see that Verizon would be that stupid to allow the flood gates open for unlimited data on the 21st or by a loophole preorder, to allow the very thing they want to squash. My guess is when those folks return those GSIII's they will be paying not only a restock fee but their contract date will roll forward, which means shared data or full price of phone.

Not looking to get flamed and I don't work for Verizon, and I really hope to hell I'm wrong, but I really think they are delaying this for more than Apples bs.

On a side note, I do have the orig Inc, with unlimited data, stbxw has a stupid phone, and I think she is wanting to get on of those lame iphones. My question is, I would like to get the inc 4G, and hopefully before the 28th. Am I in a time crunch here to get us off this shared family plan now?? I don't want to possibly end up getting the Inc 4g, and somehow keep my unlimited data, only to have a divorce final in 6 weeks, and walk into Verizon store and find my individual plan now will be a shared data or lose my unlimited data process. Anybody have any thoughts on this, just wondering if the pressure is on to get on individual plans now or before the 28th that is...

Appreciate it...

If you sell the GS3, you're not returning it. You can then purchase the Dinc4g off contract with the money you made off selling the Galaxy S3. I'm not going to go through all that hastle though. Today I'm preordering the GS3 so I can lock into my unlimited data and will cancel my preorder next week if the Dinc4G comes out (which I don't think it will). However if it does not come out next week, I'll stick with the GS3.

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dLo GSR · Jun 14, 2012

ugh, when the F is this coming out...

NightxFall · Jun 14, 2012

dLo GSR said:
ugh, when the F is this coming out...

Never. Ever.

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polarimetric · Jun 14, 2012

dLo GSR said:
ugh, when the F is this coming out...

That's pretty much everyone's attitude by now, I think. God, Verizon knows how to flub a launch like no other. I'm still loyal to my intent to purchase this phone, but if I was HTC, I'd be fuming from the likely lost sales their silence on this phone has caused. The SGS3 has completely eclipsed the spotlight.

kg_jettaIV · Jun 14, 2012

polarimetric said:
That's pretty much everyone's attitude by now, I think. God, Verizon knows how to flub a launch like no other. I'm still loyal to my intent to purchase this phone, but if I was HTC, I'd be fuming from the likely lost sales their silence on this phone has caused. The SGS3 has completely eclipsed the spotlight.

I agree completely. Unless I hate this phone after I get it, it will be the one I go with, but I really hope that dev support is not harmed by this crap.

Possible release date and price for Incredible 4G LTE

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