What's wrong with Sony's G-lens? Picture analysis

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gavinfabl

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I owned the Z1 and it does suffer from issues described. However the Z2 is different marginally so really there is no point going overboard with the Z1.

However I'm not over optimistic Sony will have fixed it in the Z2 but you never know.

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faraaz3

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Nov 18, 2012
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Bro nice topic to discuss...100 % it's the faulty image processing in Sony...
One thing I wish Sony should do "GIVE RAW IMAGE SUPPORT " IF they r unable to get it right....developers on xda rock

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MSIOCGenie

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Jan 11, 2013
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I think the issues that Bone points out are definitely worth discussing. But perhaps getting in touch with a Sony rep and asking them the same questions, linking to the samples could give us some real answers? If it really is a software issue, why is it not solved by now? If that's the case then I seriously doubt Sony's capabilities of making decent camera software.

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Publicglutton

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I think the issues that Bone points out are definitely worth discussing. But perhaps getting in touch with a Sony rep and asking them the same questions, linking to the samples could give us some real answers? If it really is a software issue, why is it not solved by now? If that's the case then I seriously doubt Sony's capabilities of making decent camera software.

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Yes the issue is worth pointing out , however it's slightly premature in the Direct case of the Xperia Z2 because Sony have NOT even released the phone yet and the images shown are those of early software and really poor examples & until it's fully released with final software and/or Sony have resovled the issue, we cannot make an accurate judgement on the Xperia Z2's G-lense :rolleyes:


When the xperia Z2 is released and if we have conncrete evidence that the g-lense in the Z2 has the same problem I will accept it & will be one of the first on the phone directly to Sony to complain.
 

gavinfabl

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The Xperia blog has photo samples of the Z1 versus the Z2 and the Z2 is considerably better. I have the Z1 Compact for review at the moment and it's much better than the Z1.
 

faraaz3

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Nov 18, 2012
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Yes the issue is worth pointing out , however it's slightly premature in the Direct case of the Xperia Z2 because Sony have NOT even released the phone yet and the images shown are those of early software and really poor examples & until it's fully released with final software and/or Sony have resovled the issue, we cannot make an accurate judgement on the Xperia Z2's G-lense :rolleyes:


When the xperia Z2 is released and if we have conncrete evidence that the g-lense in the Z2 has the same problem I will accept it & will be one of the first on the phone directly to Sony to complain.

Z1 compact camera better than z1? ???? :-/

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Ame123

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Dec 30, 2012
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Idnt think the images i have taken with my z1 has the edge softness prblms but my old z1 had the prblms i have got a replaced new z1 now which dsnt has the prblm
5ase3ydy.jpg
7a5a9yba.jpg


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Publicglutton

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Z1 compact camera better than z1? ???? :-/

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No not better, both will be upgraded to Kitkat soon and with firmware updates also on the way they should all be on a par with each other.


other than the camera ,One specification that is better on the compact is the IPS LCD display, better viewing angles , sharper images & better colour pallet.
Depends what size you like your mobile, I personally was going for the Z1 compact, but changed my mind when I saw the Z2 ;)
 

ascariss

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May 6, 2011
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There is nothing wrong with the G lens on the device, all the first reviews of the Z1 which stated the camera was weak or blurry in some parts were all pre-production models not running production software and most sites didn't go back to review production units with final and improved camera software.

Current sample images from z2 are also probably off pre-production devices so not final software, I've already seen 2 different camera firmware's f120 and f200 on the z2 photos and the f200 firmware clearly is a step above anything on the z1 so far, especially in noise performance.

http://www.xperiablog.net/2014/03/08/xperia-z2-low-light-sample-pictures-from-the-streets-of-tokyo/

the xperia blog shows this quite nicely, some of those shots are pretty high ISOs, the crosswalk sign is iso800 and there is minimal noise which is nuts, considering the z1 has insane noise at 200 and above. The shot of the taxis and bus is ISO1000 and it has really good noise performance vs the z1. This clearly demonstrates that the camera software in the Z2 has matured or at least moved a lot more forward compared to the updates the Z1 camera software received.

More images here, it includes the tokyo pics.
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2673226

But again this software is not final as can be seen here, f200 software
http://www.ringhk.com/news2.php?id=8285

some of the shots are a bit more blurry vs the z1 photos which are sharper but again this can be fixed.

In your original photo you pointed out a few places on the photo that are more blurry than the rest and I agree, this is not acceptable but the original z1 reviews stated a right sided blur which people said was due to a flaw in the lens. But this flaw is not apparent on all photos meaning it probably was a software issue rather than hardware.

Therefore the same issue is most likely present here as mentioned by others, software still not 100% final. Bionz for the z1 when released was no where near what it should have been, in fact it still isn't anywhere as good as what sony states. The Z2 is Bionz mark 2, and has much more improved performance and will no doubt be a much better product once the production units are released.

As for the Barcelona shots you posted, they are unfortunate and not acceptably but then browsing them I noticed one thing, they are in a helicopter and the user is shooting the photos not using only the Sony but also though the windows of the helicopter which adds another factor in front of the lens which can distort the image.

I'd wait for production models and production sample images and not basing off pre-production models.
 
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gavinfabl

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Yes. The Z1 Compact is taking much better photos than my Z1.

And I didn't have a pre production Z1 as noted above but there were rumours the first batch had faulty optics.

All I know is I've been using the Z1 Compact all day today and the quality in superior auto mode has been good.

The Z2 is meant to be even better. A lot better so let's hope so. I won't rush out and buy it. I will wait to see the results first.

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Publicglutton

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Yes. The Z1 Compact is taking much better photos than my Z1.

And I didn't have a pre production Z1 as noted above but there were rumours the first batch had faulty optics.

All I know is I've been using the Z1 Compact all day today and the quality in superior auto mode has been good.

The Z2 is meant to be even better. A lot better so let's hope so. I won't rush out and buy it. I will wait to see the results first.

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Yes I agree it is taking better photos, but it is NOT a better camera, it's the same.
it's just the compact has updated firmware/software ;)
 

pepeo123

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Aug 30, 2013
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at first i thought that the problem was with the G lenses so it wouldnt be possible to fix it. since some reviews had issues with it and others havent i thought that it was a production proccess problem, the lack of unifomity on the batches that affected some devices and other not
but after reading this thread and searching in some reviews i am starting to think that its really a software related problem

take a look at these pics
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z1-compact/review/camera/gsmarena_012.jpg
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z1-compact/review/camera/gsmarena_014.jpg

they were taken ath the exact same place and position. the first is in superior auto and the second is in normal mode but with HDR

as you can notice, the parking lot, the mall and the trees at the left side of the building are completely blurred in the first picture. but on the second one they are not

of course this is far from being a scientific analysis or a definitive proof, but this could show that sony's algorithm is messing even with the camera focus
 

chesterr

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Nov 27, 2010
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at first i thought that the problem was with the G lenses so it wouldnt be possible to fix it. since some reviews had issues with it and others havent i thought that it was a production proccess problem, the lack of unifomity on the batches that affected some devices and other not
but after reading this thread and searching in some reviews i am starting to think that its really a software related problem

take a look at these pics
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z1-compact/review/camera/gsmarena_012.jpg
http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/sony-xperia-z1-compact/review/camera/gsmarena_014.jpg

they were taken ath the exact same place and position. the first is in superior auto and the second is in normal mode but with HDR

as you can notice, the parking lot, the mall and the trees at the left side of the building are completely blurred in the first picture. but on the second one they are not

of course this is far from being a scientific analysis or a definitive proof, but this could show that sony's algorithm is messing even with the camera focus

They really need to fix this issue fast, I don't understand what's really taking them so long to push an update to fix the damn problem in SA, which should let the normal user to take a photo in current situation. Not all the people are techy and when they start comparing the photos with other phones, they are disappointed cause it doesn't do the great job which HTC's 4MP camera does.
 

Chad_Petree

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Apr 2, 2009
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A photo from Clove review, click on the image.
http://blog.clove.co.uk/2014/03/11/sony-xperia-z2-review/



Unfortunately even at 8MP, getting toward the edges and softness creeps in. Not the greatest conditions admittedly, but that's what we got, and edges are again softer than the middle.

:( :( I guess I'm gonna wait too to see if all the phones have the same issue or if only some of them are having this issue

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Chad_Petree

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Apr 2, 2009
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. At 21MP the noise is more because of the increased megapixel count. At 8MP because of downsampling the noise level is still acceptable. Erica Griffin's probably seeing that in action, but if there were soft spots due to the lens then it should be on EVERY picture that is taken.

I personally only take 16:9 pictures , and to be able to do so with the Z2 I would have to choose 15 MP.... a 8 MP (16:9) picture should look identical to a 15 MP (16:9) picture , if I see them on my retina macbook pro, or a UHDTV because the screen resolution is inferior or close to 8 MP , but way inferior to 15 MP, so when the pictures fill the screen, they should look identical , right?

I still don't understand how "downsampling" difers from simple resizing :(
 

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    I don't have to tell you how Android phones suffer on camera SW side, but while the Z1 improved on the Z's problematic image quality, it introduced unexpected issues in optics. The G-lens is a multi-element plastic lens system, and something inside the design and arrangement causes certain areas of the image to lose sharpness, Z1 owners know this. Unfortunately, while Sony's sure to work on image quality improvements, the optics of the Z2 are unchanged, here is a picture analysis.

    sony3.jpg


    This is a downsampled Z2 image taken at 8MP (Auto Mode), because it's reduced to 40% of original pixel size, it should be super sharp (and not over-sharpened) at ALL AREAS, cause if this photo is not sharp, how the full 20MP result would look?

    http://www.xataka.com/galeria/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/2/



    1) But anyways, details in the middle are quite good, highly detailed, although you can spot quite a sharpening, but tolerable at this resolution (100% crop)
    s1zaux5.png



    2) Moving just a bit away from the middle however, and look at how the buildings, trees, construction site are all of the sudden soft and lack of accurate focus
    s2q7uoj.png



    3) The left middle side of the lens is worst, this image would be just as sharp as in the middle on a say Samesong Note 3, LG Pro 2, iPhone 5S, Lumia 1520 whatever. Remind you this is still a crop from an 8MPs image, not 20, full size would have the same amount of detail spread over 2,5 larger area!
    s31suoi.png



    4) The left bottom corner is... relatively sharp again? Huh?
    s4xhu80.png



    Right now Sony has a monumental mountain to climb to make their SW for their great sensor work reliable, cause the Z1 is not, it's not too high on detail either, and is badly over-processed (sharpening, noise reduction). But even if they get it right, optical issues won't go away, something is just wrong with the G-lens that is not addressed on the Z2, which is a pity.
    2
    Another thing: DPReview, a well respected photography site, gave the Z1 a 7.8 score in their review. This is compared to 8.1 for the GS4, and iPhone 5s and 7.5 for the HTC One,
    http://connect.dpreview.com/post/9705313773/sony-xperia-z1-camera-review?page=11


    GSMArena rated the Z1's camera 3rd in this comparison.

    http://www.gsmarena.com/six_way_camera_shootout-review-998p10.php

    PhoneArena put the Z1 in 2nd after the 1020 in this comparison.

    http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/C...laxy-S4-LG-G2-Nokia-Lumia-1020-HTC-One_id3500


    If there was really a serious problem with the camera lens then it wouldn't be getting these good reviews as well. The software is just really inconsistent.

    edit:

    Sony needs to deal with the processing and areal softness, which may be lens, focusing, processing or compressing issue, I'm here to find out which. It shouldn't really perform worse than it's Sony sensor rivals, but it does.



    I really don't understand why you are trying so hard to find a problem with Sony's lens. It's a SOFTWARE issue. There's nothing to find out about here. IF it was a hardware issue then I would be seeing a pattern in all my photos rather than some of my photos being hit by these inconsistencies. I have not seen anything on the internet relating to Z1's hardware being poor. If it was a hardware problem then I would not be getting much better results in manual mode. The problem would've existed even in manual. That is NOT the case. Read my previous post for an explanation:http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=50768065&postcount=25
    2
    Yeah, besides @naga.nino's GSM Arena comparison where it's clearly visible on the Z1 Compact, DPreview also points out areal softness out (on the Z1). "If you zoom into the Sony's huge 20.7M images close-up the results look a little disappointing, despite the sensor that at 1/2.3 inches is larger than on most competing smartphones. At a 100% view the Sony images show a lot of noise and processing artifacts, even at low ISOs. ... Despite the strong processing the Z1 is capable of resolving a lot of detail in central areas of the frame but the closer you get to the edge the more detail is lost to corner softness which, combined with noise and noise reduction, does not make for pleasant close-up viewing."


    Erica Griffin also on the lens soft spots on the Z1 Compact:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7tQ5n32no8&feature=youtu.be&t=12m6s

    Yes, the Z1 does have noise problems. That's why superior auto/BIONZ processor tries over processes the images later, causing these blurs.. It's trying to make up for the noise in the image, and is overeager in doing so. In manual mode, the pictures are VERY sharp albeit a bit noisy. At 21MP the noise is more because of the increased megapixel count. At 8MP because of downsampling the noise level is still acceptable. Erica Griffin's probably seeing that in action, but if there were soft spots due to the lens then it should be on EVERY picture that is taken.

    No one is saying that there is not a problem with some of the Z1's pictures. What no one is saying is that it's a hardware problem. If it was then (and I'm repeating myself here) I would be seeing these soft spots in every picture and also in about the same spot in the picture. That does not happen. As others have said, if it was a hardware problem then more reviews would be stating it is, but again, that's not the case. Most people agree the Z1's camera is good but not as good as it could be due to the poorly optimized software.
    2
    Yes it is. There is no softness around on a say iPhone 5S or Galaxy S4 Exmor RS, if the subject is sharp, the image is sharp all around. It is an undeniably crippling feature of the Z1, and apparently the Z2, and anyone with any sense of photography can spot these issues, see some Sony forums. I'm expecting a quality discussion here not "ur crazy dude, no camera is perfect homes".

    What discussion is there to have? Do you want people to agree with you and reply 'ohhh yuhh z1 camera sux' or 'sony u suck lolol'? I stated my opinion, and it's true. I'm a pretty avid photographer, I have a Nikon D7100 and have a decent eye for photography. My D7100 with the 18-105 lens has the same problems at large aperture. Granted it's not as bad as the Z1's, but the softness is still there. Large aperture lenses have softness on the corners. I guarantee you will find the same result with the 5S or S4.


    I could show you pictures that came out perfectly with my Z1 as well with none of the problems you mentioned. There are a ton of reasons why you could have got that blurriness in the middle. The camera lens could've been smudged, they might've got a bad phone, or, most probably, the guy was taking pictures out of a helicopter which was moving and might have had smudges on the window?


    Let's take a look at another picture in this set:http://img.xataka.com/galleries/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/DSC_0046.JPG


    Overall, it's a bit soft, but the random blurriness you mentioned is not present. Detail is sharp at the center and fuzzy at the edges, just like any camera, but the random blurs are not there. Why? Because the picture you showed was an abnormality.
    2
    I'm 99.99999% sure the inconsistencies you're showing is because the BIONZ imaging processor is trying to actively compress/sharpen the image in separate spots where it deems its needed. Its trying to soften the places where there might be a lot of noise, and do the opposite to the places that are soft. This is causing the random blurs/sharp areas. If it was a lens problem then I would be seeing this in all the pictures I take. That's not the case. The software is overeager in processing the images and causes these abnormalities. It's a problem, but hopefully the Z2 has improved on the software side of things.

    Also, honestly, the two pictures you link look pretty good...