Ex-HTC Flagships - Mega Tech Discussion Thread

hamdir · Mar 26, 2014

yes ofcourse M8 is the 8th flagship

HTC CEO Peter Chou was heavily involved in the One's design

Led by CEO Peter Chou, HTC has developed a reputation for making phones that are just as visually appealing as they are functional. The company's latest flagship device, the One (M8), is another in a long lineup of beautifully crafted smartphones, and we had a chance to sit down with Chou to discuss the handset and some of the process behind how it came to be. "Our challenge was how do we break through from M7 to M8?" Chou told us. "I decided last year that I'm going to spend most of my time in product to help break through. Make it premium, like watches or jewelry. We want to stand out."

Chou was definitely deeply invested in the success of the M8, and was directly involved in its development -- he lost 5kg testing out the Fitbit integration, and even spent several weeks walking around with an M8-shaped block of wood in his pocket. "I tried to simulate when I take it out, how it feels when I put it on my ear, and when I talk." In other words, Chou wanted to see it through the lens of any other consumer. During this process, he provided feedback to his design team on which areas needed to be tweaked. "We were working back and forth on fine-tuning it; 'I don't like this curve, I want it to be more natural in the hands, I want this completely metal, completely pure.'"

Chou has a background in product management, so it's no surprise that he doesn't simply sit back and let the design team do all the heavy lifting. "I give them direction, what we want to achieve. They go think about that and then we start the process." He says that HTC goes through roughly 30-50 prototypes before finally settling on the final version; with each iteration, the team changed things like the shape, color, finish and battery shape and size.

Additionally, Chou told us that the process of developing the Duo Camera took HTC around 18 months. For a little more context, we spoke with Tim McDonough, VP of Marketing at Qualcomm, who said that the chipset manufacturer began collaborating with HTC very early on. Qualcomm needed to build several new features into its roadmap to ensure that it could keep up with the M8's hefty imaging requirements. According to McDonough, there were a lot of challenges in making sure the Snapdragon 801 could handle the load of the new One's complex post-processing features; he confirmed to us that the dual ISPs inside the 801 are 45 percent faster than the Snapdragon 800, which is a huge performance boost that opens the door for even more imaging possibilities down the road (whether from HTC or other manufacturers).

On a final note, Chou once again emphasized that premium watches and jewelry were behind the inspiration for the M8. Given what we've seen, it certainly appears that the company dedicated plenty of time and energy to making that happen. Of course, such a statement only makes us even more curious to see if Chou & Co. use the same model of inspiration for HTC's upcoming smartwatch; unfortunately, if he has a block of wood strapped to his wrist right now, he's doing a good job keeping it hidden. Regardless, take a look at the full interview above to hear more about how Peter Chou's vision has taken a major role in the design of HTC's products.

Shan89 · Mar 26, 2014

randombirt said:
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app

So the tint is definitely gone , tho max power of pitch black isn't as strong as on m7 tho that can be corrected within seconds + let's be honest no one gonna ever take these kind of pics lol.

Anyway here's the end result with little effort in gallery

1st pic yours

2nd pic yours with little effort with gallery editing tools

oh yeah , vs m7 it has less grain which is good , pics in low light should be better then on m7.

Sent from my HTC One using a bit of Sixth Shense

Trekest · Mar 26, 2014

Freak07 said:
you missed the one x

Woops, right you are.
But then again, I don't think the G1 was sold under the HTC moniker, not at first at least, only later as "ADP". Also - it never had Sense. So the Magic might be the "M1" and onwards. Things I think about when walking my dog...

randombirt · Mar 26, 2014

Shan89 said:
So the tint is definitely gone , tho max power of pitch black isn't as strong as on m7 tho that can be corrected within seconds + let's be honest no one gonna ever take these kind of pics lol.
M7 comparison pics but on default settings as my first pics.

M7
M8

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app

steve1996 · Mar 26, 2014

Trekest said:
I think I figured out the reasoning behind the "M7" and "M8" monikers - these are HTC's 7th/8th Android flagships:
(1) G1 / Dream, (2) Magic, (3) Incredible, (4) Desire, (5) Desire HD, (6) Sensation, (M7) One, and obviously (M8) One 2014.

Missed hero, incredible s(if it's a different device), and one x

Sent from my Nexus 7 MK.2

Shan89 · Mar 26, 2014

randombirt said:
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app

Oh **** you have m8 and m7 , anyway the pineapple photo to me looks better from m7 .. good thing they're literally the same which means firmware will improve m8 camera a lot same as it happend on m7.

as for battery life

the **** , 13% for 1hr and 4 minutes , now that should indicate in total from 100% to 0% at about hmmm 7 hrs SoT , btw how does m8 charge , is it faster then m7 ?

Lastly if you're not lazy it'd be nice to see some more comparison shots vs m7

Ty again for all the info you're giving us ^.^

hamdir · Mar 26, 2014

@randombirt color range definitely improved over the M7

Shan89 · Mar 26, 2014

@hamdir

FML

Look at this !

The camera effects don't work since photo wasn't taken with dua cam the rest work , now I need a good way to test performance mode , any suggestions ?

Btw this base 1.54 is even smoother then 1.12.

Sent from my HTC One using a bit of Sixth Shense

shox22 · Mar 26, 2014

Shan89 said:
The camera effects don't work since photo wasn't taken with dua cam the rest work , now I need a good way to test performance mode , any suggestions ?

A game which laggs without HPM

---------- Post added at 11:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 PM ----------

I was going to switch my iPhone 5s for an HTC One (M8), but…

This is why megapixels do matter
HTC One M8 CameraWhat is the biggest problem with smartphone cameras? For me at least, the fact that there is no optical zoom. It’s hard for you to really replace a good camera for your phone if there are parts of a photo that you don’t want, and if you can’t get close enough to the subject to get exactly the shot that you want. The solution: Cropping the photo. The more megapixels you have, the more you can crop-into a photo without making it look like a pixelated mess. Sadly with the HTC One, there’s no way around the pixelation.

Even if the pixels on the HTC One are a tad larger than they are on the iPhone 5s, the iPhone has twice the amount of pixels than the One. Surely the HTC One will do a better job in low-light, but I would rather get more detail in a photo, than less of it.

Then we go to the problem of the display that you’re using. Surely not everyone has a high-resolution display on their computer, but isn’t that the future? The biggest problem with a computer that quadruples the pixels of whatever you see is that if there aren’t enough pixels on your photo, it’ll look grainy no matter what.

This phone is not future-proof
The HTC One M7 was not necessarily ahead of its time when it was launched, but it was highly competitive for the trends of its time, and features like BoomSound made it stand apart from the crowd. The question is, what differentiates the HTC One (M8) today? BoomSound again, but then what?

When I’m faced with the question, should I forget about the iPhone 6 for the HTC One (M8), I find myself even considering the iPhone 5s to be superior in features. Surely I won’t get BoomSound, but it has the second best speaker in the market. I get TouchID, which works flawlessly, and I also get one of the best cameras in the business.

When you’re faced with a situation where a six-month old phone is already superior in certain things to a really cool flagship that got announced just a day ago, there is a problem.

Don´t agree with the feature part.

Shan89 · Mar 26, 2014

shox22 said:
A game which laggs without HPM

---------- Post added at 11:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 PM ----------

I was going to switch my iPhone 5s for an HTC One (M8), but…

Don´t agree with the feature part.

Easy to say ... but i don't know a game which laggs on m7 lol , if you have any on your mind feel free to tell me

( of course don't pick some 1/2gb game cuz i wont be downloading it lol )

Pyromancer · Mar 26, 2014

Can we compare these shots with z2 or s5?

Sent from my HTCSensation using Tapatalk

shox22 · Mar 26, 2014

---------- Post added at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 PM ----------

---------- Post added 27th March 2014 at 12:09 AM ---------- Previous post was 26th March 2014 at 11:56 PM ----------

HTC CEO Peter Chou was heavily involved in the One's design

Chou has a background in product management, so it's no surprise that he doesn't simply sit back and let the design team do all the heavy lifting. "I give them direction, what we want to achieve. They go think about that and then we start the process." He says that HTC goes through roughly 30-50 prototypes before finally settling on the final version; with each iteration, the team changed things like the shape, color, finish and battery shape and size.

Additionally, Chou told us that the process of developing the Duo Camera took HTC around 18 months. For a little more context, we spoke with Tim McDonough, VP of Marketing at Qualcomm, who said that the chipset manufacturer began collaborating with HTC very early on. Qualcomm needed to build several new features into its roadmap to ensure that it could keep up with the M8's hefty imaging requirements. According to McDonough, there were a lot of challenges in making sure the Snapdragon 801 could handle the load of the new One's complex post-processing features; he confirmed to us that the dual ISPs inside the 801 are 45 percent faster than the Snapdragon 800, which is a huge performance boost that opens the door for even more imaging possibilities down the road (whether from HTC or other manufacturers).

On a final note, Chou once again emphasized that premium watches and jewelry were behind the inspiration for the M8. Given what we've seen, it certainly appears that the company dedicated plenty of time and energy to making that happen. Of course, such a statement only makes us even more curious to see if Chou & Co. use the same model of inspiration for HTC's upcoming smartwatch; unfortunately, if he has a block of wood strapped to his wrist right now, he's doing a good job keeping it hidden. Regardless, take a look at the full interview above to hear more about how Peter Chou's vision has taken a major role in the design of HTC's products.

30-50 design prototyps
18 month development for the dual camera

---------- Post added at 12:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 AM ----------

Anandtech - The HTC One (M8) Review

Sadly not made by Brian

randombirt · Mar 26, 2014

[quote name="randombirt" post=51402749]Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app

Oh **** you have m8 and m7 , anyway the pineapple photo to me looks better from m7 .. good thing they're literally the same which means firmware will improve m8 camera a lot same as it happend on m7. 
 
as for battery life

the **** , 13% for 1hr and 4 minutes , now that should indicate in total from 100% to 0% at about hmmm 7 hrs SoT , btw how does m8 charge , is it faster then m7 ? 
 
Lastly if you're not lazy it'd be nice to see some more comparison shots vs m7

Ty again for all the info you're giving us ^.^[/QUOTE]
M8

M7

M8

M7

M8

M7

M8

M7

M8 flash

Can't take m7 with flash as its down to 8%. All pics are default settings.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app

shox22 · Mar 26, 2014

Anandtech - The HTC One (M8) Review

Final Words
Earlier in this review I commented on just how quickly handset OEMs seem to adopt features pioneered by one another. Combine that with the fact that silicon providers like Qualcomm enable a lot of these features across all partners and it’s no surprise that differentiation is becoming an increasingly difficult problem in the smartphone industry. Add to that the trend towards lower cost, lower margin devices making up more of smartphone volume and it becomes very obvious that what HTC is trying to do with the One is incredibly difficult.

There’s good reason that we don’t see many full metal designs in the Android space. It’s a crowded market and when the cost differential between a plastic and full metal chassis approaches an order of magnitude, it’s an easy decision for most. HTC picked the road less traveled with the One last year, and I’m honestly quite glad to see continued commitment to the path with the M8.

While I often praise the Moto X for its wonderful ergonomics, there really is no other Android phone like the One (both old and new) when it comes to feel. The M8’s design is different than its predecessor, but everything I liked about the M7 I find myself liking in its replacement. The device is great to look at, it’s great to hold and it’s built with an eye for design that we just don’t see in a lot among Android OEMs. Including a micro SD card slot is sure to win over some users, and I’m happy to see a move to nano sim as well.

The biggest issue I have with the M8’s design is that it is a little too tall for me. I feel like that was a concession to support the second camera sensor on the back and I’m not sure it was worth it. I will readily admit though that this is very much a personal preference. I remember holding the M7 and thinking it was a bit too big for me, and that was just a year ago. Either my eyesight is getting worse (probably) or I’m beginning to come around to even larger form factors (not quite at the 6-inch range though).

The M8 is more than a pretty face, it’s very well executed on a number of fronts. The underlying hardware is a substantial upgrade compared to the Snapdragon 600 platform in the original One. Battery life is up by as much as 70%. And in areas where battery life doesn’t increase, performance goes up by almost double at effectively no power cost. What was most surprising to me is that even in situations where I ran the CPU or GPU at max performance, the Snapdragon 801 based M8 was able to deliver better battery life or power efficiency compared to the S600 based M7. I shouldn’t really be caught off guard by that given the substantial difference in process, but it just feels rare these days to get these sorts of improvement in a 12 month period.

The RF stack gets a worthwhile upgrade compared to M7 as well. Most SKUs use two components from Qualcomm’s RF360 platform (the envelope tracker and antenna tuner). It’s still to early to get the full RF360 platform in a device, but both of these components play a role in improving power efficiency in connectivity bound scenarios.

Sense 6.0 is a nice improvement over the previous version. Lately I’ve been feeling like the right solution is somewhere between AOSP and these fully custom UIs, but HTC is probably closer than most in getting there. Sense 6.0 is fairly non-intrusive and having a camera UI/app that actually works is definitely worth a departure from stock Android.

HTC’s camera tuning and app remain some of the best executed in the Android space. The new camera UI is even more simplified, without sacrificing flexibility should you need it. The new Auto Max ISO settings are incredibly useful, and honestly solved one of the biggest problems I had with the M7.

The Duo Cam features vary from gimmicky to surprisingly cool. I don’t know that the addition of a second camera sensor is good allocation of BoM (Bill of Materials) resources, particularly if it’s not going to improve image quality. Just like with the M7’s UltraPixel camera however, HTC has its finger on the pulse of where things are headed. With physical limits to what can be done with camera modules in ever shrinking smartphone z-heights, using compute to improve the experience is an obvious next step. In the case of the M8, HTC leverages compute to automate effects processing and not improving IQ, which is the main problem. I feel like there’s an audience for HTC’s Duo Cam effects, but it would be a broader one if the setup improved image quality as well.

There are differences in camera tuning compared to the M7, but by and large captures aren’t really improved. In some cases there’s even a regression thanks to the lack of OIS. Ultimately that’s the biggest problem with the new One. It’s an upgrade in so many areas but it lacks the substantial step forward in primary camera quality that is necessary to move the high end to a better place. I will say that the UltraPixel camera can still produce some amazing photos. Particularly for web use and sharing the way we do, I’m still very pleased with what comes out of the One. It’s an extremely versatile shooter, I just wish it improved as much as the rest of the platform did this generation.

I ran into someone last week who was on the verge of purchasing an M7. I told him all about the different options on the market, including those about to be on the market, and he responded by saying that it didn’t matter. Material feel and quality both mattered more to him than anything else, and for someone in that boat, HTC is virtually peerless in the Android space. I don’t know how big of a market that is, and thankfully the M8 delivers more than just design. It’s a very well executed phone, and as I mentioned earlier - if you liked the M7, you’ll be very happy with the M8. The question is whether or not that’s good enough. I feel like HTC has the makings of a real success story, but it needs slightly broader appeal. HTC has the right formula, which is the hard part - it just needs a little tweaking.

Turbotab · Mar 26, 2014

Anandtech - M8, no Brian Klug?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7893/the-htc-one-m8-review

Shan89 · Mar 26, 2014

randombirt said:
 
 
Oh **** you have m8 and m7 , anyway the pineapple photo to me looks better from m7 .. good thing they're literally the same which means firmware will improve m8 camera a lot same as it happend on m7. 
 
as for battery life the **** , 13% for 1hr and 4 minutes , now that should indicate in total from 100% to 0% at about hmmm 7 hrs SoT , btw how does m8 charge , is it faster then m7 ? 
 
Lastly if you're not lazy it'd be nice to see some more comparison shots vs m7 Ty again for all the info you're giving us ^.^

M8View attachment 2652291
M7View attachment 2652298
M8View attachment 2652300
M7View attachment 2652301
M8View attachment 2652306
M7View attachment 2652307
M8View attachment 2652308
M7View attachment 2652309
M8 flashView attachment 2652310
View attachment 2652312
Can't take m7 with flash as its down to 8%. All pics are default settings.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using xda app-developers app[/QUOTE]

ty ! The battery is sick lol you should be getting over 8hrs SOT at this rate from 100% to 0% , tho we should keep in mind you don't have RADIO enabled due lack of sim card , those stats should go a bit down when you start using it with the network.

Anyway battery indeed is much much better then m7 and camera definetelly is as well , colors are much better. ty for all your effort , you should post the photos in m8 photo thread with this comparison and battery life as well in battery stats thread , you'll make many ppl happy.

Can't wait to see what will m8 do with battery when it gets even more polished + camera gets even better via updates ^.^

Anyway this settles it for me , no ****ty governor and finally good battery life

Yep m8 see you in august probably

Can you also tell us something about the screen ? Is it any better then m7 screen ?

shox22 · Mar 26, 2014

Turbotab said:
Anandtech - M8, no Brian Klug?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7893/the-htc-one-m8-review

Still well written.

Return of the UltraPixel
As I mentioned earlier, the One’s primary camera sensor remains unchanged from last year’s model. The M8’s primary shooter is a 4MP “UltraPixel” camera with 2.0µm square pixels. As Brian (correctly) theorized last year, there were two sources for HTC’s UltraPixel camera: ST (VD68969) and OmniVision (OV4688), the latter being the limited second source. Due to quality control problems with the ST sensor the M8, like later models of the M7, uses the OmniVision sensor exclusively. The entire module is almost identical to what we saw last year in the M7, with one notable exception: it no longer has OIS (Optical Image Stabilization). Dropping OIS was likely due to a combination of cost and performance concerns. HTC’s OIS was never quite as good as Nokia for example, and there’s surely an impact on yield. I’m curious as to whether or not we’ll see it return in a future flagship, but for now the feature is gone.

So @jerrylzy was right, it´s the exact same sensor (or one of them)... Meh.

Turbotab · Mar 26, 2014

shox22 said:
Still well written.

So @jerrylzy was right, it´s the exact same sensor (or one of them)... Meh.

Not as OCD detailed, and without BK's insight and unique enthusiasm, but still good. But I'm worried about Brian, such sudden silence is weird.

flar2 · Mar 27, 2014

I had a look at the stock kernel config for m8. I think it is the same basic source they are using for the current m7 Sense kernel. HTC has included a whackload of dvb/tv tuner driver modules. I wonder why?

HTC is using the synaptics touch driver again, which is good because I know it well and it has worked very well for various sleep/wake hacks. Should be able to do sweep2sleep and traditional sweep2wake if that is needed (I guess it depends on how well the motion gestures are implemented). We'll be able to figure out rather quickly whether the bezel has any touch functionality.

It looks like they ditched the multiphase ondemand governor used on the m7 recently (the one that was good for battery but bad for gaming). I think the m8 is using straight up ondemand governor, which is better for gaming but can be improved a lot in terms of battery life. I wouldn't get too excited about the high performance mode, it will just drain battery and create heat for gaming. It probably runs all clocks at highest freq (performance gov). On the Nexus 5, I've been able to get great performance and great battery life without compromises using the elementalx governor. We should be able to have the same on m8.

My m8 will probably arrive next week. I expect kernel source in a couple weeks when the Google Play Edition ships. Can't wait.

Maedhros · Mar 27, 2014

flar2 said:
HTC is using the synaptics touch driver again, which is good because I know it well and it has worked very well for various sleep/wake hacks. Should be able to do sweep2sleep and traditional sweep2wake if that is needed (I guess it depends on how well the motion gestures are implemented). We'll be able to figure out rather quickly whether the bezel has any touch functionality. .

Unfortunately bad news....

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=51400870&postcount=175