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Azrienoch and Sassi left?

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10th April 2012, 08:06 AM   |  #61  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.O.C

nono....I was a long time user bro , I basically read and learned my way into development . Users are potential developers, or potential moderators, themers, or ingenious persons with great ideas - Users should not be leechers who come here to "ask" for something and expect full support.....what is the point there?...anyhow....I gotta go, cya ltr.

What I am saying is that by the standards you and the other developers that have replied in this thread have put forth... then XDA has grown into something that you don't like... a place to release software, educate each other, support end users, and develop on open source code.

If XDA has become something that you don't like... why are you here? Why do you release your code here? Why do you "moderate" the forums?

Why not start your own walled garden and make it the way you want it?
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10th April 2012, 08:43 AM   |  #62  
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Human Nature
Too many people here do not understand how business works. IF you start a website, regardless how altruistic the reason is, in the end, you need to pay the bills and create some sort of balance that provides the needed condition to make sure the business (site or other) is sustained and grows. XDA is no different than ANY other site or business, it follows the same model. IF it makes money Good !!! it is supposed to do that hopefully...

What has changed for XDA was..... no one could have ever thought that the Android platform would be this huge this fast. We all wanted it to be big, but in a span of 2 years Android has become THE ITEM in the phone world.

XDA grew accordingly along with the Android increase of popular-ism.
The result...... the growth caused both success and growing pains. Specific People who think they are the reason for the success of XDA or believe they are indispensable......... well they are wrong.... very wrong... Just the same that some Vice President of marketing or operations thinks they are too important to be fired in a specific business. Yeah right...... businesses and website take on they own anima and it changes as it gets bigger and adapts to ensure continued success..... if it doesn't it becomes irrelevant...and shrinks.

So many I have seen in XDA that complain that that they are unjustly treated ... believe so, because they cannot do whatever they feel like and follow common rules of discourse ...or... think they should have More control of the site than is warranted.... They then get frustrated when their fantasma desire is not realized ... then quit (or get let go) and begin a personal vendetta to those who gave them the opportunity to grow and develop. This is EXACTLY how all separations in ALL businesses look like •••EXACTLY•••...... why people think a website would be different than any other business ...well is just silliness...
Now, a few of the Moderators in the site do not speak or conduct themselves as professionally as they probably should... they too either adapt and raise their professional behavior or they too get left behind..... this too, is human nature and part of the participation bell curve. But, to think that "the few" are most of XDA moderators or managers is just dishonest.
What caused this thread.... and many like this one.... is someone or some-ones had their Ego bruised and their ego-driven emotional hurt drives them........ if it didn't they would learn from the experience and move to better moments in life without prejudice and malice like mature adults. But then, how many divorces end with the break up amenable.... where both parties move on maturely...... not many...... like I said human nature repeating expected human behavior.......just like the emotional gossip that has gone on inside this thread and some here act like that is unusual.......I wish all the best and continued success with everything they participate in...... even in a thread such as this one...... •••Peace•••
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10th April 2012, 09:07 AM   |  #63  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screamworks

No doubt there's profits off the site, too. Even if it was less than $4,000/d in revenue, that would surely meet and exceed any server costs.

You'd be surprised how much money goes into things like this. Especially when there has to be sysadmins that are on call almost 24/7, and considering there is what, 3 admins who has XDA as a day job. And these need to be paid well etc etc.
10th April 2012, 09:07 AM   |  #64  
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They were well-guided in making you a Moderator ^
10th April 2012, 09:17 AM   |  #65  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeadCpu

You'd be surprised how much money goes into things like this. Especially when there has to be sysadmins that are on call almost 24/7, and considering there is what, 3 admins who has XDA as a day job. And these need to be paid well etc etc.

If you scroll back a bit, my main point from that was the money wasn't the primary driving force. I understand that there's serious costs involved with running a site on this scale.

All in all, I think the situation with Jeff and Bob ended in a not-so-cataclysmic manner. Mind you, it wasn't the prettiest of situations either, but I don't think anyone except those involved can fully comment on it. The rest of us are just acting on what we know. As for Sam, I've reached out for comment from him, but I'm yet to hear anything.

Still, from what I've seen in this thread, some people who represent XDA (incl. Moderators, regardless of if they're paid or not) need to reshape their views on the userbase of this site, and what it's primary objectives need to be. Moreover, a little bit of professionalism would go a long way too. To those who have shown that today, thank you.
10th April 2012, 09:22 AM   |  #66  
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You go alright... For a Queenslander
10th April 2012, 09:37 AM   |  #67  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juzz86

You go alright... For a Queenslander

'dem fighting words, mate!
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10th April 2012, 01:28 PM   |  #68  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBrown

What I am saying is that by the standards you and the other developers that have replied in this thread have put forth... then XDA has grown into something that you don't like... a place to release software, educate each other, support end users, and develop on open source code.

If XDA has become something that you don't like... why are you here? Why do you release your code here? Why do you "moderate" the forums?

Why not start your own walled garden and make it the way you want it?

What my colleagues are trying to say is that XDA is ultimately focused on its developers--hence the name--because if we weren't, there wouldn't be any reason for end users to visit the site in the first place. We're not trying to be hostile or unwelcoming to our end users. In fact, many of these users who initially come looking to flash a new ROM end up becoming developers themselves after learning the intricacies of Android and other mobile OSes on our forums. However, we must do what we can to reward and protect the developers who work hard, often without pay, to better the hacking community.

This thread has progressed past the point of no return, and I am forced to close it. Please keep in mind that as end users, the XDA Staff (be it volunteer or paid) in no way harbors malice towards you. However, as I stated above, our goal is to make sure that developers' needs are being catered to because otherwise, there would be no XDA-Developers in the first place.

Thread closed.
Last edited by willverduzco; 10th April 2012 at 01:31 PM.
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10th April 2012, 05:32 PM   |  #69  
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@Scott (this is more oriented for your comments, but I threw in general stuff as well),

One last thing before the thread is completely closed up. I have spent the last hour or so reading comments back and forth regarding what happened and what didn't happen. As stated earlier, XDA didn't drive Jeff and Sassi away (read: fire them), they left on their own accord. I had/have a good working relationship with both of them and while I understand what Jeff said regarding moderators taking over, this is far from being the case. We are not butt hurt regarding anything really. We are simply trying to manage a site that has exploded in both popularity and membership base. We are not tyrannical oppressors, socialist, communists, or any form or governing body for that matter.... Hell, we are not even a democracy for that matter. We are simply a group of people willing to try and make this place into a peaceful atmosphere to develop, learn, and have some fun while doing it.

XDA must pay the bills and this is why the ads are in place, period. This has already been established and that is the way it is. If the owners of the site get some money left over at the end of the month, so be it. If you disagree with that, don't click on the ads. No one is forcing you to do it, same with donations. We go as far as punishing people for forcing donations prior to releasing anything as we don't believe this is right either. It is very simple, it is common knowledge that this site was originally founded in Europe (Netherlands to be more precise), and that sometime towards the end of 2009 it was purchased by a US company, which obviously invested money to bring the site to the US. Now, if you were an investor of some sort, what would be your driving force for taking on a venture where you needed to invest capital? ROI, correct? Good.... Now, the owners did not purchase this site for ROI but rather to save it from going under as the previous owners were a few months away from closing it up due to outstanding costs for upkeep. And yes, the new owners are LONG time members as well. So, if the site did have some money left over at the end of every month, what is it to you? Why do you have a problem with it? You are not paying out of your own pocket for any kind of service provided by xda. And do not even think about countering with the classic "donations" bit as a donation is just that, a donation... money that you willingly give up for the betterment of something (in this case, the site). More servers need to be brought in from time to time to prevent xda from going under and that is a fact. We have an average of over 30,000 people online at any given time of the day. Can you even begin to understand the monumental amount of load that puts on a server? It is intense to say the least...

Now onto my favorite part of the show, XDA's ethos, mantra, creed, whatever you want to call it. Most of your comments regarding what our site is are so far out of base that I personally do not even know where to begin. XDA is developer oriented, based, and driven. These are all inclusive of each other. We do not target n00bs, I guess the biggest problem was in fact a big, huge misconception of what being a n00b actually represents:

A n00b, by definition, is a person that is just starting on something (project, activity, etc) and has very little to no experience on that particular area. We don't discriminate, block from registering, or otherwise flame n00bs mercilessly. What we do have a beef against is the fact that some of these n00bs (in the sense that the word is being used these days) are coming in here with a sense that the site is supposed to be a tech support site where they just get an operator/CSR (read: developer) to answer every question and provide fixes and solutions for their every whim. Reading/searching is almost as dead around here as Latin and that is why you see flames, people being cursed, etc. No one takes the effort to learn, they simply want to get what they are missing to keep going with their life.

We encourage people to come on xda to learn, share, and contribute to the community (this is to answer your post as to why we allowed people to sign in) because we do believe that today's users could become tomorrow's devs. In almost 7 years of being a member, I have seen this time and time again, people honing their skills, producing some of the finest work for mobile platforms that has ever seen the light of day.

Also, one of your statements that (sorry but I have to say this) literally made me want to scream at my monitor.

Quote:

Put a bunch of developers in a room and have them produce a product. If no one uses the product, then what is the point of producing it in the first place?

This is the fact that tells me how you are entirely missing the mission objective of this site. Devs make stuff because it is a challenge, not because they are racing to get something "cool" out for you. They are not making something to put it out. They are making something to see if it can be done.

Someone quoted devs being nothing without testers. True to a certain extent. The reason I say this is because feedback of the kind saying

"My camera is broke'd Plz fix. kthxby"

this is not feedback. Unfortunately, over half of the people considering themselves "beta testers" think of this as being good feedback. The truth of the matter, feedback should also carry suggestions as well, if within the knowledge of the individual testing, of course (no one can be expected to know how to debug a kernel if they cannot even spell the word half the time ). <--- (you have no idea how many people I have seen spelling this as "kennel", it is quite scary in fact )

Anyways,, as this thread is closed, I hope that I have made some sense and answered some of your points.

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