Venue Pro issue tracker

benjaminries · Nov 24, 2010

EDIT: Feb 14 / 2012 - Wow. It has been a while. I pre-ordered one of the original DVPs, went on the roller-coaster ride of trying to get it SIM unlocked, returned it to Dell and took the 15% restocking hit, then watched in agony as a simple "just email Dell" free unlocking solution came available about a month later. I've had a second-hand HD2 through most of 2011, running various builds of WP7 and Android, until the digitizer bit the dust. Just snapped up a DVP on eBay - I'm back baby! Time to update this thread.

Whether you're a DVP owner, future owner or still on the fence about a purchase, it might be useful to have a single thread listing the known issues with this model (and any discovered fixes, workarounds, etc.). I'll try to keep this up-to-date based on comments below. Have I missed anything?

Compass driver broken by Mango update
Much-discussed; interop unlock or custom firmware would allow a fix (i.e. flashing an unsigned cab could potentially put the old driver back)

No HSPA or roaming triangle indicators
Diagnosis: software issue... can't get an "H" or triangle symbol to appear in the relevant contexts.
Apparently this is only an issue on TMO-US branded units, and it is entirely cosmetic. Interop unlock would allow us to make the necessary registry edits to bring back the HSPA indicator.

Camera: slow shutter speed = blurry indoor shots
Partially improved in successive firmware updates

Flaky reception
Somewhat improved, according to user reports.

Cell radio: drops connections when switching from 2G to 3G
Fixed by Dell in new units.

WiFi: some devices can't connect to secure networks
Fixed by Dell in new units.

SIM: error
Fixed by Dell in new units.

Windows Phone 7 general issues
No copy & paste
Fixed in NoDo

Email: forwarding from non-Exchange account uses .eml attachment instead of inline text
Fixed

Camera: issues with retaining settings
Fixed

jcoob · Nov 25, 2010

Headphone jack: curved, bad connection?
I don't think the headphone Jack poor connection is explicitly caused by the curved jack. Checking out my friends HTC desire, I noticed that it too has a curved jack that doesn't completely cover the headphone plug.

benjaminries · Nov 25, 2010

jcoob said:
Headphone jack: curved, bad connection?
I don't think the headphone Jack poor connection is explicitly caused by the curved jack. Checking out my friends HTC desire, I noticed that it too has a curved jack that doesn't completely cover the headphone plug.

Thanks. I'm partly basing this on a youtube video from a DVP owner who demonstrates how the earphone jack won't plug all the way in, because of the curved design.

Can any actual DVP owners comment on this? Is the problem widespread?

benjaminries · Dec 2, 2010

RE: SIM locking of Dell Venue Pro

Note: the following threads discuss DVP-US frequencies, possible SIM-locking to T-mobile (even for off-contract, paid-in-full devices), etc.:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=858181
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=857572
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=838105&page=51

pNoyr3D · Dec 2, 2010

Awesome thread, love the idea & I haven't really heard much of the issues listed here but its great that you put it out there.

Hopefully many get fixed in the upcoming update in January or even the new devices.

Many don't seem to apply to me like the camera since I rarely ever use the camera but the 2G to 3G one is pretty big.

eyan15 · Dec 2, 2010

The camera was bad in the first phone I received (Engineering Sample) but in the next phone the Cam was alright. This unit didn't have that slow shutter problem

The images were comparable to HD7.

sureloch · Dec 3, 2010

benjaminries said:
Whether you're a DVP owner, future owner or still on the fence about a purchase, it might be useful to have a single thread listing the known issues with this model (and any discovered fixes, workarounds, etc.). I'll try to keep this up-to-date based on comments below. Have I missed anything?

Camera: slow shutter speed = blurry indoor shots
Reported here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=841391
Diagnosis: since the camera EXIF reports that it is the same hardware as the iPhone 4, hopefully this can be fixed via software patch
Solution: might have been fixed in updated device ROM? (thanks eyan15 - http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=9552249&postcount=6 - can somebody confirm?)

Camera: issues with retaining settings
Reported here: http://en.community.dell.com/dell-b.../19/where-we-are-with-the-dell-venue-pro.aspx
Diagnosis: software bug
Solution: unknown

Cell radio: drops connections when switching from 2G to 3G
Reported here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=839051
Diagnosis: radio firmware issue?
Solution: unknown

Headphone jack: curved, bad connection?
Reported here: http://en.community.dell.com/dell-b.../19/where-we-are-with-the-dell-venue-pro.aspx
Diagnosis: hardware design flaw?
Solution: unknown

WiFi: some devices can't connect to secure networks
Widely reported
Diagnosis: firmware bug
Solution: these units can be exchanged at their source

SIM: error
Reported here: http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/11/23/dell.venue.pro.sim.card.flaw.among.many.issues/
Diagnosis: firmware bug or hardware issue
Solution: these units can be exchanged at their source

Windows Phone 7 general issues
No copy & paste
Widely reported
Diagnosis: missing feature
Solution: OS update in January 2011 will add clipboard functionality

Email: forwarding from non-Exchange account uses .eml attachment instead of inline text
Reported here: http://wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-email-bug-discovered-when-forwarding-non-exchange-accounts
Diagnosis: software bug
Solution: unknown

Might want to add these to the Windows phone 7 list:

1) No real multi-tasking support to speak of in phone 7, even the "back" button doesn't bring you back to an active program in most cases, but the program has to re-initialize.
2) No support for mobile hotspot function in phone 7
3) No true "live tile" support for 3rd party apps (like twitter etc...); more like dead tiles.

I am concerned that the speed of WP7 is dependent on only having 1 app running and therefore MS doesn't want multi-tasking.

benjaminries · Dec 3, 2010

sureloch said:
Might want to add these to the Windows phone 7 list:

1) No real multi-tasking support to speak of in phone 7, even the "back" button doesn't bring you back to an active program in most cases, but the program has to re-initialize.
2) No support for mobile hotspot function in phone 7
3) No true "live tile" support for 3rd party apps (like twitter etc...); more like dead tiles.

I am concerned that the speed of WP7 is dependent on only having 1 app running and therefore MS doesn't want multi-tasking.

This stuff crosses over into general criticisms of the OS. I'm trying to restrict bugs to things that were obviously overlooked or have been announced as upcoming fixes - not new features or disagreements over design.

KilZone · Dec 4, 2010

This is an Windows Phone 7 bug, all devices suffer from this. So while this is an issue nonetheless, you should not decide not to get the Dell Venue Pro based on this 'bug' alone. If you want a Windows Phone 7 device, you will have this problem, hopefully Microsoft will fix it in the next update.

Camera: issues with retaining settings
Reported here: http://en.community.dell.com/dell-bl...venue-pro.aspx
Diagnosis: software bug
Solution: unknown

benjaminries · Dec 4, 2010

KilZone said:
This is an Windows Phone 7 bug, all devices suffer from this. So while this is an issue nonetheless, you should not decide not to get the Dell Venue Pro based on this 'bug' alone. If you want a Windows Phone 7 device, you will have this problem, hopefully Microsoft will fix it in the next update.

Thanks for the correction; I was under the impression that each OEM made their own customized Camera app. Curious if they all suffer from the same problem - hopefully that means it will be fixed in the January update.

Wonderstruck80 · Dec 4, 2010

eyan15 said:
The camera was bad in the first phone I received (Engineering Sample) but in the next phone the Cam was alright. This unit didn't have that slow shutter problem

The images were comparable to HD7.

This is the only thing preventing me from ordering this phone. Can anyone else confirm this issue has in fact been resolved?

benjaminries · Dec 5, 2010

seatown1two said:
This is the only thing preventing me from ordering this phone. Can anyone else confirm this issue has in fact been resolved?

We might not get this confirmed until late December - as far as I can tell by the forums, many of the early birds who got their DVPs from the Microsoft Stores are still waiting on replacement units. Hopefully one or two other people who have already got a good replacement can chime in here, but I fear we won't know the status of these issues until the big wave of online orders start shipping out.

Call me crazy, but I think that if this is a simple software issue, Dell will fix it. In the alternative maybe we'll see some homebrew camera apps next year that we can sideload

nrfitchett4 · Dec 8, 2010

sureloch said:
Might want to add these to the Windows phone 7 list:

1) No real multi-tasking support to speak of in phone 7, even the "back" button doesn't bring you back to an active program in most cases, but the program has to re-initialize.
2) No support for mobile hotspot function in phone 7
3) No true "live tile" support for 3rd party apps (like twitter etc...); more like dead tiles.

I am concerned that the speed of WP7 is dependent on only having 1 app running and therefore MS doesn't want multi-tasking.

1. That is the fault of the developers of the apps. The OS supports save states so when you go back it resumes where you left off. You can see this in OEM apps like IE, but the 3rd party browsers don't do this.
2. Not sure if that is in the works
3. Since when? Weatherbug, weather channel, flixter, beez twit app all support live tiles.

benjaminries · Dec 8, 2010

nrfitchett4 said:
1. That is the fault of the developers of the apps. The OS supports save states so when you go back it resumes where you left off. You can see this in OEM apps like IE, but the 3rd party browsers don't do this.

This is an interesting one. I agree with you that a lot of this is developer-related, but I think Microsoft will still end up making some adjustments to multitasking next year. Remember that the internal system apps (like IE) are permitted to do true background multitasking by the OS, while 3rd-party apps aren't.

I have read that the save state thing is kind of tricky because apps often don't get a warning that they are about to be put to sleep - the OS just responds instantly when you hit "back" or "home". So the only apps that can take advantage of this feature are the ones that are saving their state all the time - which is only practical for some app designs. A 3rd-party music or video app might make a record of whatever song or video you're watching, but must it save the elapsed track time every second? Every 10 seconds? Whatever granularity is chosen will be the state you can return to after the app loses focus.

MS needs to allow true background multitasking/threading in a few limited situations:
- the app loses focus, receives a "save your current state" message from the OS, and is allowed to save its state in the background
- the app sends a tiny bit of data to the cloud every 5 minutes (i.e. Google Latitude) - MS could maybe impose a "maximum lines of code" on this upload function?
- the app does a tiny bit of processing with the push data it gets from the cloud, without necessarily getting user interaction

I believe allowing these three types of multitasking would really open up possibilities for developers.

KilZone · Dec 9, 2010

What you say is not entirely true. Applications do receive a warning when the system is going to navigate away from the application, just the way like you suggest it as the first option. However in practice it is a little more complicated than that.

There are 4 events in Windows Phone 7, Launch/Close and Activated/Deactivated. The first two are just the startup and closing of the two while the latter is the tombstoning warning and retrieval event. So when your application receives it's 'deactivated' message, it is allowed to do some final saving of it's state (there is a time limit, but it's rather flexible). Windows Phone will navigate away even though the save state hasn't been completed yet, so that part of 'multi-tasking' is implemented.

The problem you all mention comes from the fact that 'home' and 'back' are not the same for 3rd-party applications (and even some internal ones). Back is generally seen as 'back one page' and 'home' as 'go to the start screen'. However if you are 1 page away from the home screen, the 'back' button will act as 'close' button... So it will sent a 'close' event to the application, rather than the 'deactivated' event (and not allowing the application to tombstone itself). This way, the next time you boot the application it will restart as it will receive the 'launch' event and not the 'activated' one. Easiest 'solution' is to use the 'home' button instead, however this will mess up your 'back'-botton behaviour a little.

benjaminries said:
[...]I have read that the save state thing is kind of tricky because apps often don't get a warning that they are about to be put to sleep - the OS just responds instantly when you hit "back" or "home". [...]

Basically I think Microsoft needs to 'fix' the 'back'-button acting as 'close'-button, as no-one thinks it will act this way.

benjaminries · Dec 9, 2010

KilZone said:
What you say is not entirely true.

LOL, it sounds like I was pretty darn close for a lay-person. I don't have a WP7 device yet, but tell me, how often to do you navigate away from an app OTHER than by going to the homescreen? The only other way I can imagine is by accepting some kind of toast push notification, pressing the Search button or the Camera button.

The bottom line is that MS intended to do this better - but as you have said, apps are often losing focus in a way that doesn't even allow the app to save its state, even if it has been designed to do so. Apps should be given a chance to save their state whether they're being minimized or closed, so they can return to the last state whether they're being woken up or started fresh.

KilZone · Dec 9, 2010

You were quite close indeed and you're right that this is quite an irritating bug (Microsoft might say it's a feature, but let's keep it at a bug for now). Mostly because as a Windows Phone user you have no idea when an application 'closes' or 'tombstones'...

benjaminries said:
LOL, it sounds like I was pretty darn close for a lay-person. [...] The bottom line is that MS intended to do this better - but as you have said, apps are often losing focus in a way that doesn't even allow the app to save its state, even if it has been designed to do so.

Agreed, I think you have a valid point there. It certainly would increase the multi-task-experience (even though it is not true multi-tasking) as all applications would seem as if they were running next to eachother (as was the idea initially). It might be nice if an application could implement 'tombstoning' when it receives the 'close' command, which is not available right now (no access to the tombstoning service).

benjaminries said:
Apps should be given a chance to save their state whether they're being minimized or closed, so they can return to the last state whether they're being woken up or started fresh.

sureloch · Dec 11, 2010

nrfitchett4 said:
1. That is the fault of the developers of the apps. The OS supports save states so when you go back it resumes where you left off. You can see this in OEM apps like IE, but the 3rd party browsers don't do this.
2. Not sure if that is in the works
3. Since when? Weatherbug, weather channel, flixter, beez twit app all support live tiles.

I hope you are correct as I have ordered thte dvp, but though the suspend/resume multi-tasking sounds like a good idea, it seems extremely weak in practice.

Here is a clip showing the types of behaviors that concern me including the live tile issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNfpPrto07Q&feature=related

WP7 is a very elaborate and beautiful operating system which must require heavy resources to accomplish. Perhaps we will have to wait for dual core devices before we will see WP7 multi-tasking like we would hope. But it seems like the caching and accessing current tasks to preserve resouces could be done more effectively, and would definitely improve the user experience.

Jim Chapman · Dec 13, 2010

KilZone said:
Agreed, I think you have a valid point there. It certainly would increase the multi-task-experience (even though it is not true multi-tasking) as all applications would seem as if they were running next to eachother (as was the idea initially). It might be nice if an application could implement 'tombstoning' when it receives the 'close' command, which is not available right now (no access to the tombstoning service).

The App Style Guide is clear about the 'right' app behaviour, and I'm sure Microsoft consider it a feature, not a bug. It enforces a set of rules that they just expect users to get used to:
1) Switching away from an app (e.g. hitting search or launch) should leave the app in a state where you can come back to it (and pick up again from where you left off) by pressing the back button.
2) The way to terminate an app is to 'back out' of it. Once you have terminated an app, you can't come back to it.
3) Whenever you launch an app from the menu, it will start from scratch.
Microsoft's own apps follow this pattern.
These rules are intended to give the feeling of 'all apps existing in a stack' (like the stack of navigations you move through when using a web browser). I think that represents a conscious design decision on Microsoft's part ... maybe a bad design decision, but not a bug as such.

By the way, an app can trap and modify the behaviour of the 'back' key. Actually, the developer has to do this, to ensure that the app does the right thing in all cases (for instance, if the app has a popup dialog open, the 'back' key will close the popup dialog, not back out of the app). This does give the app a chance to respond to the 'back out' action, by saving state or by putting up a 'do you really want to quit?' message. But Rule #3 above means that when the app is restarted, it has to look like a new instance of the app, not a continuation of the instance that the user terminated.

benjaminries · Dec 13, 2010

Jim Chapman said:
But Rule #3 above means that when the app is restarted, it has to look like a new instance of the app, not a continuation of the instance that the user terminated.

Interesting. It would be nice if there was at least some subtle little toast or something like "do you want to pick up where you left off?", maybe just for apps that are super-complex, at the developer's discretion.

Whatever MS and developers did, I'm glad that MS appears to recognize that users aren't super happy with the outcome - I believe we'll see a change in the second update of 2011.

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