Windows phone going down?!

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fatclue

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2010
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Miami, FloriDuh
Those who prefer iPhone will stay with it because of familiarity. Apple is smart in realizing it does indeed have sheeple (no offense intended, just laying down a line of argument). Those who prefer Android have been sucked into the marketing hype of "openness" and freedom to do whatever they want with their phones and will likely stay with the platform. Those of us on WP7 are here because (a) we were previously on WM, (b) don't care for iOS (myself included), (c) realize that Android is a convoluted mess with no standardization from one device to another or (d) converts from dead systems such as RIM, Symbian or webOS. I know RIM is technically not dead, but let's be real.

Either way, whatever platform we have chosen is of our own preference and we arrived at the decision considering many factors. It is very arrogant of anybody to "hate" on someone else's choice because of their own prejudice. In other words, live your own damn life and stay the f**k out of mine. Agreed?
 
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vetvito

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Dec 31, 2007
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Okay Vet, go ahead and give me the list. If I was a betting man I would put up something in paypal too ;)

Just remember, Microsoft puts out a whole heap of consumer products. I have used a mix of their enterprise ones and consumer:

Microsoft Office
Microsoft Windows 95/98/2000/XP/Vista/7 (never really used NT)
Microsoft webcams (lifecam, and the HD one is really nice)
Various wired and wireless keyboards and mice

I also use their MS Dynamics which is business software. Project is too. etc. Microsoft makes tons of products, and when I think of Microsoft I do not think of failed consumer products. But I am willing to hear your list :)

You named enterprise products, stuff a ton of people have no choice on. The hardware isn't selling well either.

Consumer products like the Smart Watch, Media Center dvd players, etc...but I'll stick to WP7.





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sitizenx

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2007
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Iphone 3gs, iphone 4, iphone 4s, enough said.

I see 3g in there. I see 4. The only thing we aren't seeing is what really matters LTE. I actually almost didn't get a smartphone because I was told by a friend that using data off of wifi was a pain in the rear and not worth it. Boy am I glad I ignored that apple fanboy and got introduced to the world of LTE. It's 2012 for crying out loud. Apple fanboys still fapping to 3.5 inch screens with no LTE?!
 

vetvito

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Dec 31, 2007
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I see 3g in there. I see 4. The only thing we aren't seeing is what really matters LTE. I actually almost didn't get a smartphone because I was told by a friend that using data off of wifi was a pain in the rear and not worth it. Boy am I glad I ignored that apple fanboy and got introduced to the world of LTE. It's 2012 for crying out loud. Apple fanboys still fapping to 3.5 inch screens with no LTE?!

Come on, we're having a good discussion, don't ruin it.

Some people don't want a bigger screen, and some don't want to pay for LTE.

Me personally I wish they would throttle everyone to 5mbs speeds, and lower the price to the unlimited $5usd days.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
 

sitizenx

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2007
322
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I see 3g in there. I see 4. The only thing we aren't seeing is what really matters LTE. I actually almost didn't get a smartphone because I was told by a friend that using data off of wifi was a pain in the rear and not worth it. Boy am I glad I ignored that apple fanboy and got introduced to the world of LTE. It's 2012 for crying out loud. Apple fanboys still fapping to 3.5 inch screens with no LTE?!
Come on, we're having a good discussion, don't ruin it.

Some people don't want a bigger screen, and some don't want to pay for LTE.

We are going to discuss everything. Even the stuff that is a little inconvenient for Apple. Yeah. My GF wanted a bigger screen the minute she saw my Lumia 900. Anyway if you want a smaller screen Windows Phone has that. If you want a bigger screen Windows phone has that. Apple? Nope. One size fits all. No one needs to explain to me people have preferences. That's why I don't own the Model T of phones.

Pay for LTE?! Son, my LTE phone was FREE and I pay $30 a month for unlimited LTE. You don't pay a penny more for the goodness and you actually SAVE $200 vs buying a slow poke phone (ie iphone 4s).

Me personally I wish they would throttle everyone to 5mbs speeds, and lower the price to the unlimited $5usd days.

Yes I suppose if you alter reality and remove LTE from the picture the iphone 4s at $200 a pop looks slightly less silly next to the free Lumia 900. Unfortunately reality shows up to spoil the party.

iOS definetly has some advantages over Windows Phone, but when you look at them OBJECTIVELY anyone claiming the $200 iPhone 4s is somehow a technological marvel that blows the FREE Lumia 900 out of the water is smoking crack.
 

fatclue

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2010
238
82
Miami, FloriDuh
And WP7 has advantages over iOS and Android. It all comes down to what device or which platform or even which carrier suits your needs. Some devices on the same carrier behave differently depending on what region they are on and what the coverage is like. So you see, this discussion is the tech world's equivalent of the perpetual motion machine. It's like that one episode on the original Star Trek with the two guys who are half white and half black, at each other's throats for eternity with no possibility of compromise. I, personally, could care less about LTE because for what I need a few seconds here and there aren't going to change my world. LTE doesn't make my phone conversations any faster, and last time I checked a phone is a phone first and foremost. Email and Office documents rule my day and most files are not large enough to really affect my data collection speed. I realize most of you on these boards are young and just starting life but let me tell you something, don't be in such a hurry. Stop and smell the roses or before you know it, you'll be a grumpy old fart like me.
 

eknutson

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Jan 26, 2008
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Eau Claire, WI
Well, let's just ask Siri then, shall we?

image81.png
 
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vetvito

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Dec 31, 2007
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And WP7 has advantages over iOS and Android. It all comes down to what device or which platform or even which carrier suits your needs. Some devices on the same carrier behave differently depending on what region they are on and what the coverage is like. So you see, this discussion is the tech world's equivalent of the perpetual motion machine. It's like that one episode on the original Star Trek with the two guys who are half white and half black, at each other's throats for eternity with no possibility of compromise. I, personally, could care less about LTE because for what I need a few seconds here and there aren't going to change my world. LTE doesn't make my phone conversations any faster, and last time I checked a phone is a phone first and foremost. Email and Office documents rule my day and most files are not large enough to really affect my data collection speed. I realize most of you on these boards are young and just starting life but let me tell you something, don't be in such a hurry. Stop and smell the roses or before you know it, you'll be a grumpy old fart like me.

Enough said, as the topic was quickly derailed. I'm still young btw.

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nicksti

Senior Member
Sep 7, 2009
686
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You named enterprise products, stuff a ton of people have no choice on. The hardware isn't selling well either.

Consumer products like the Smart Watch, Media Center dvd players, etc...but I'll stick to WP7.





Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

I named consumer products in the first paragraph. Microsoft Office is not enterprise software per se; And out of curiousity how do you know how well their hardware is selling? After Logitech webcams, the Lifecam is the next best seller on Amazon.

Oh to make a fair correction, it was a Logitech C920 HD webcam I used. That is a nice webcam with very nice mics built it if you are every into something like that. I had to set it up for a conference room.

But let us squash it. when I think of putting out busters I do not think of Microsoft, but I take it you do. To each his own. And it is worth mentioning that Windows Phone has only been out for a little over a year. In the same timeframe, the XBox 360 was a spectacular failure with the disasterous failure rates (red ring) and the fact that they lost money on every console sold. Now into the future you are calling it their only successful consumer product. The exact sentiment was they botched that product so badly and squandered the year lead they had over the PS3.

"Monday Morning" I think it is called.

Out of curiousity, can't a loose parallel be drawn between the XB360 and Windows Phone?
 

AndroHero

Senior Member
May 28, 2010
6,476
906
Manchester
You named enterprise products, stuff a ton of people have no choice on. The hardware isn't selling well either.

Consumer products like the Smart Watch, Media Center dvd players, etc...but I'll stick to WP7.





Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

I dont know about you, but when i bought my PC, i had a choice of what OS i wanted to install, just like when i chose what office software or internet browser i wanted to use.
Everyone has choices but most people choose MS products without considering the rest because they are the best.

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vetvito

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2007
3,154
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Out of curiousity, can't a loose parallel be drawn between the XB360 and Windows Phone?


not at all. Two entirely different beasts and markets, with entirely different competition. When MS entered the gaming market there was only Nintendo and Sony, they catered to different markets. Competition was needed. Not to mention MS really improved what gamers wanted.

In the phone world, there is a ton of competition, catering to every part of the market, with services and features already offered.




I dont know about you, but when i bought my PC, i had a choice of what OS i wanted to install, just like when i chose what office software or internet browser i wanted to use.
Everyone has choices but most people choose MS products without considering the rest because they are the best.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using Tapatalk 2

Yeah right, if you purchased a PC from a big box company, your choice was Windows, nothing more. There arent any Linux, OSX discs beside it to let you choose.

Office is the standard of enterprise and businesses, and what people know.

Its been this way for years, and common knowledge.

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sitizenx

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2007
322
47
And WP7 has advantages over iOS and Android. It all comes down to what device or which platform or even which carrier suits your needs. Some devices on the same carrier behave differently depending on what region they are on and what the coverage is like. So you see, this discussion is the tech world's equivalent of the perpetual motion machine.

Makes sense.

I, personally, could care less about LTE because for what I need a few seconds here and there aren't going to change my world.

That's not the point. The point is Apple fanboys make vacuous statements but when it comes down to real objective hardware differences they prefer to skip over all the details where Apple is the clear laggard. YOU may not have any use for LTE but it is an extraordinary technological advance that makes all kinds of things actually practical to do on a smartphone. Let me put it this way. LTE was my FIRST data plan on my phone. I had absolutely no desire to fiddle with a phone with a tiny screen and wait around watching a progress bar as web pages tried to load.

LTE doesn't make my phone conversations any faster, and last time I checked a phone is a phone first and foremost.

Well if that's the case we should completely ignore EVERYTHING that was spoken about in this thread and just compare call quality. Again there are plenty of phones that cost less than $200 that have better call quality than the iphone 4s.

If I am paying the same price for data and someone wants to charge me $200 more for a phone it better be able to access that data better than a free phone. I could see if you got a DISCOUNT for the non LTE phone and non LTE data plan buy you actually have to pay MORE! That's a problem.

I realize most of you on these boards are young and just starting life but let me tell you something, don't be in such a hurry. Stop and smell the roses or before you know it, you'll be a grumpy old fart like me.

I prefer to "stop and smell the roses" in an actually park outdoors not while I'm downloading something on my smartphone.
 

nicksti

Senior Member
Sep 7, 2009
686
107
not at all. Two entirely different beasts and markets, with entirely different competition. When MS entered the gaming market there was only Nintendo and Sony, they catered to different markets. Competition was needed. Not to mention MS really improved what gamers wanted.

In the phone world, there is a ton of competition, catering to every part of the market, with services and features already offered.






Yeah right, if you purchased a PC from a big box company, your choice was Windows, nothing more. There arent any Linux, OSX discs beside it to let you choose.

Office is the standard of enterprise and businesses, and what people know.

Its been this way for years, and common knowledge.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

I do not want to dwell on it but Office has Home and Student versions as well. So it is consumer and enterprise so let us leave it as a push.


I cannot argue your XBox statement. The only parallel would be the struggle but it really ends there. Nintendo was no longer relevant in the hardcore gaming market since they went to the Gamecube, and the PS2 was old. The market was ripe for the picking for the Xbox 360 and they had a good product in XBL. Very different landscape in the mobile market. You are absolutely right.

But MS sure managed to make that real difficult with the RRoD :D

Like I said earlier, the most divisive issue on this forum is 'Will Windows Phone be successful?". Here are my reasons for answering in the affirmative:

Unless you are Apple, the essential components to widespread adoption are OEM and Carrier support. Then you need features and apps. And finally you need to differentiate yourself positively to pull people away from what they are currently using. That could come in the form of hardware and/or software.

Now here come the beliefs:

I believe Microsoft with all their billions will sink money into making Windows Phone into a contender. Here is where Windows Phone is like the Xbox and not like a Smart Watch or Media Center dvd player - multibillion dollar, well established market.

So if you have a product, say Windows Phone, and it is not doing well money can fix that. Buy developers. Buy carrier support. Buy OEMs. Money cannot fix poor direction or bad ideas. In my mind and it is my opinion, Windows Phone is well built. Money can fix Windows Phone.

But I suspect we do not agree on that point. That is where all the arguments stem in here. Look Windows Phone sucks now. But it won't forever. Yes it will.
 
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nicksti

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Sep 7, 2009
686
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On a related note, Samsung announced an Omnia W, a 4.0" slightly more affordable Omnia W.
 

vetvito

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2007
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Im still searching for a Lumia 900. Successful or not, that is a nice looking device.



Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
 

fatclue

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2010
238
82
Miami, FloriDuh
Makes sense.



That's not the point. The point is Apple fanboys make vacuous statements but when it comes down to real objective hardware differences they prefer to skip over all the details where Apple is the clear laggard. YOU may not have any use for LTE but it is an extraordinary technological advance that makes all kinds of things actually practical to do on a smartphone. Let me put it this way. LTE was my FIRST data plan on my phone. I had absolutely no desire to fiddle with a phone with a tiny screen and wait around watching a progress bar as web pages tried to load.



Well if that's the case we should completely ignore EVERYTHING that was spoken about in this thread and just compare call quality. Again there are plenty of phones that cost less than $200 that have better call quality than the iphone 4s.

If I am paying the same price for data and someone wants to charge me $200 more for a phone it better be able to access that data better than a free phone. I could see if you got a DISCOUNT for the non LTE phone and non LTE data plan buy you actually have to pay MORE! That's a problem.



I prefer to "stop and smell the roses" in an actually park outdoors not while I'm downloading something on my smartphone.
Thanks for an objective, hate-free response, that is a rarity these days and not just on this forum. LTE is indeed an awesome technological breakthrough. It just so happens that I don't find it a necessity, but that doesn't take away from the accomplishment. I should not be bashed for it or made to feel like a caveman for it (not that you did, I'm just illustrating a point). My statement that a phone is a phone first was not meant to belittle a smartphone or its abilities. I've been on smartphones since the first Treos on Palm OS. They are the single best development since the microchip itself, IMO. I couldn't see myself ever going back to a feature phone. The point I'm trying to get across, the only point, is that there are dozens of different types of phones with different OS's from various manufacturers on a multitude of carriers. Each of us has different needs and different tastes and even more distinct biases and I think there is a "seat for every ass" out there. Live and let live, or as the prophet Marley preached "don't go point'n fingers if you 'ands aren't clean". Peace, love and soul.
 
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GoodDayToDie

Inactive Recognized Developer
Jan 20, 2011
6,066
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Seattle
Sega's hardware devision would like to poke its head out of the grave to remind you that other consoles did exist before the current three manufacturers. Also, the N64 and PlayStation [1] weren't that far apart in terms of who played them. Sure, lots of people only had one or the other, but plenty of people also had both. They got forced out of the market... and MS was nonetheless able to force themselves in. It took the better part of a decade to become really successful, though; the gen1 Xbox was a money sink, as was the 360 until the RROD issue was fixed, and even then it took the Kinect to drive sales of the 360 past the Wii in terms of rate (never mind total numbers).

Reading the first few posts of this thread, "People said the same thing about the Xbox" applies to most of them with only a little tweaking.
 

drupad2drupad

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2010
1,612
625
Despite critical acclaim, cheap phones, and a novel take on the Pepsi Challenge, few people in the U.S. want a Windows Phones and its market share may be slipping faster than its predecessor, Windows Mobile.

In fact, Windows Phone appears to be less popular in the U.S. than Microsoft's aging Windows Mobile platform, according to Nielsen. The metrics firm issued a report Monday claiming that during the first three months of 2012, Windows Phone had a market share of just 1.7 percent, far behind fourth place Windows Mobile at 4.1 percent.

Meanwhile, Microsoft's biggest Windows Phone partner, Nokia, recently reported its smartphone sales declined more than 50 percent during the first quarter of 2012 compared to the year previous

I know someone mentioned that a Windows Fanboy would want to see the shares separately but anyone sound enough with analytical skills would want to see them separately IF you are talking about the success of Windows Phone and not Microsoft.

You would only want to talk about combined shares if you want to see how successfully MICROSOFT OS is. If you want to see how well Windows Phone alone has done - which is surely not Windows Mobile, then talk about only Windows Phone sales.

Now, Windows Phone sales in 19 months from it's launch = 1.7%
Windows Mobile sales in 73 months from it's launch = 4.1%

If I am doing my maths correctly, I don't see how Windows Mobile is MORE successful than Windows Phone. I just can't see it.

Same applies with Nokia and it's marketshare. I wonder why that article doesn't talk about how Nokia has killed off the production of Symbians, slowed down on Belle and hardly think of Meego. The transition of Nokia from one OS to another will take it's own time. People who own Symbians won't automatically all shift to Windows Phone right from day 1. Some of them will, if and when, their current phone doesn't appeal to them any longer. You've got to remember that Nokia's major markets are in countries like India and China where number of smartphone users is HUGE but only if you can give affordable phones like Lumia 710 and 610. These countries don't offer the contracts that we have in Europe and USA. People pay for handsets and hence find it expensive to change to a new one every few months and sometimes even years. Hence Nokia's struggle.
 
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    Alright folks lets get this straight..

    Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much.

    We need to see Q2 global sales. I haven't bought a smartphone in YEARS and I finally jumped on the Windows Phone/Nokia bandwagon.

    The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has.

    Maybe. Statistics have shown most apps are never used a couple of weeks after they are downloaded. The ridiculous app numbers quoted for iOS are pointless. The vast majority of them, 99%, have zero utility for me.

    Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements! :rolleyes:

    Marketing.

    Beta was better than VHS. VHS won. The sheeple don't care about quality. It's not a case of "if you build it they will come." It is a case of "if you market it they will come." Anyone that holds a Lumia 900 up next to ANY iPhone and determines the iPhone is better is insane. Girlfriend has iPhone 4S. She saw my Lumia 900. She wanted one. Simple as that. You add in the fact the Lumia was FREE for weeks and you really need your head examined if you don't give it serious consideration. FREE Nokia drive?! Same GF had to pay $40.00 for Garmin app for a recent trip. That's $40 more than I paid for my phone and FREE nokia drive. Do NOT get me started on LTE.

    The best does not always win. I just want three strong ecosystems competing. Watch what happens. iPhone 5 gonna come out with much larger screen. If not they are going to look silly next to Lumia 900 and Samsung Note. Samsung Note is redonkulous.
    3
    Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.

    With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).

    Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
    2
    Its Microsoft’s own fault things are the way they are. With Windows Mobile they didn't consider the phone market to serious until they saw Apples success but then they still came late to the game because instead of making Windows Mobile better they decided they would scrap it and come up with something new; only thing was that even though Windows Phone is faster and doesn’t freeze as much, they took away all features and functionality that people were used to. With Microsoft being so busy trying to be like Apple, Android took advantage of that; they knew that people didn't want a locked down OS. It is a shame that I have to hack, mod and flash my phone to have simple stuff like BT file transfer, video MMS, and a lot of other simple stuff that's avilabe for other phone OS's out there. I hope they don't screw up Windows Phone 8 like they did with Windows Phone 7.
    2
    Not much change in two years, but there are still a positive or hopelessly optimistic few that see no errs.

    Just because we're optimistic does not mean that we see no errs/errors. What's wrong with deciding that you like something and hanging around for a while... good and bad both?

    There is no perfect OS. And even if there were one, are we all mandated to fall in love with it and only it?

    It's ok for you to not care about WP7, or whatever. It is not ok, however, to speak as if we're not aware of what we're doing with our phones.
    1
    Alright folks lets get this straight..

    Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much. But whats the reason? its pretty simple:
    People want APPS not just apps, but whats the difference?

    We see Microsoft advertising their software (skype, skydrive etc) all the time but with the iphone in front of it, there is no sign of supporting their own ecosystem!!!!

    The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has. Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements! :rolleyes: