Just to follow up on this post of mine... I did buy the AT&T Galaxy S5.
Then promptly sold it before even opening the package.
Then I bought a T-Mobile phone with the proceeds.
Sad News Inside : Hint[KNOX]
- Thread starter NoteboyTech
- Start date
Just to follow up on this post of mine... I did buy the AT&T Galaxy S5.
Then promptly sold it before even opening the package.
Then I bought a T-Mobile phone with the proceeds.
Did you think KNOX was a fad and that the grumbling of some enthusiasts was going to cause Samsung to raise the white flag and surrender? KNOX's behavior (along with region lock) was a shock when the N3 came out. Today, it's the new normal. When the KNOX bit is blown the device won't authenticate on a secure network that polls it. That's the purpose of the KNOX bit, not some diabolic scheme to screw people out of warranty service they're entitled to (frying your SoC by screwing around doesn't count).
Here's Samsung's official statement on rooting and KNOX...
To further illustrate how this works, the “KNOX Warranty Void” bit (or simply KNOX bit) is used to detect if a non-KNOX kernel has been loaded on the device. It is a one-time programmable bit in e-fuse, which can only be turned from “0” to “1” (i.e. burned). If a non-KNOX boot loader or kernel has been put on the device, KNOX can no longer guarantee [warrant] the security of the KNOX container. As a result, this KNOX bit will be burned to “1”, indicating that this device can no longer use the KNOX container service.
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit
Here's someone who got their KNOX-tripped N3 repaired under warranty in the U.S. including have the KNOX bit reset to "0" in the process.https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit
It took about a week between sending it in and getting it back. The issue I had was that the note would not reboot if you pulled the battery and reinserted without having to connect it to the charger. Before I sent it in, i flashed back to stock using ODIN. I checked the status of the repair and it said they had replaced a component. I wasn't sure if they were going to do anything since I had tripped KNOX counter.
**The kicker**
I got it back today and immediately went into download mode and to my surprise, KNOX was reset to 0X0!! I know they said they were going to flash it back to stock when they got it, but i didn't think KNOX could be reset (even by them).
Samsung sold 320M smartphones in 2013. There are 5.6M XDA members. You do the math. HTC, Sony, LG, and Motorola would love some Samsung converts. I'm not defending Samsung's "features" like KNOX and region lock but the solution isn't *****ing on XDA to strangers; it's to vote with your wallet and buy a phone from a brand whose policies are more agreeable to you.
I don't think too many people have an issue with this. I'd certainly argue nobody should. It's an added feature, whether you individually need it or not, no big deal it being there, and for some it's a big win.
I think the problem people have, the problem *I* certainly have, is there's no logical reason I can think of to tie Knox to warranty support. While it may be true that some people have gotten warranty service with the bit flipped, Samsung's stated position is you won't be able to. How does that make sense?
The only justification I can see is "hey, the custom stuff you put on the device may well have been what broke it and that's not our problem"... I can understand how that's reasonable from the manufacturer's point of view, but I also think it's an anti-consumer bit of reasoning and if I'm a company trying to make money I don't want to be anti-my customers
I'd personally be happy with some middle ground: "yes, we'll take care of you under the warranty, but there's a flat $100 fee for it" or something like that. I think that would address the needs of both parties reasonably well.
Can you (or anyone else) provide a link to Samsung's "stated position" that the KNOX warranty bit is tied to the overall device warranty? If you read the link I posted "warrant" is used to describe the integrity of a KNOX device's boot loader. In other words, if KNOX is at "0" Samsung warrants the device's security integrity. If it's at "1" that warranty is void. Samsung could have certainly chosen better terminology to describe a KNOX device's security status. I've seen plenty of threads like the one I posted where device warranty service has been provided for clear manufacturing defects on devices with tripped KNOX bits. But I'm sure with a gazillion service centers all over the globe there will be individual interpretations by Samsung regions/centers.
Asus, HTC, and Motorola all came up with elaborate online methods for unlocking their devices and at the same time archiving individual device serial numbers to ensure that the warranty on those devices was 100% void once unlocked. To me, that's far worse than the grey that exists over Samsung's choice of terminology for a device's KNOX security status.
Well, I can only speak for myself and, frankly, I'm not gonna lie, I can't point to any such reference. I may have done a bad job here... It may well be that some of us are getting caught up in what we "think" is the case, perhaps based on some anecdotal evidence (vis a vis, someone somewhere was denied once and that's been interpreted as that being the policy) and a bit of an echo chamber mentality... it's a very good question though... maybe it's not, in fact, any sort of "stated" position. I'd be very interested too if anyone else has anything official to point to.
This is from the same communication I referenced above...
When it comes to rooting, there have been some questions regarding Samsung’s KNOX-enabled devices and if they can, or should, be rooted at all. We do not recommend that you root your device, since it can cause software problems, cause your device to operate improperly (for example, overheat), and as a result void your warranty.
What it's saying literally is your warranty may be voided as a result of [user created] software problems or changes [by the user] that cause the device's h/w to operate improperly. The key terms in the statement are "can" and "as a result." It would say "will" and omit "as a result" if Samsung was drawing a hard line on rooting.
For example...
will cause software problems, cause your device to operate improperly (for example, overheat), and void your warranty.
And the statement asks the question "can KNOX-enabled devices be rooted." By stating "we don't recommend that you root your device" the answer is "yes" and they acknowledge it's happening. They've always questioned possible user created issues (EG: overheating) way before KNOX and there have been posts about warranty claims denied even with Triangle Away making the device look official. We assume Samsung and their techs are all idiots but I'm sure there are quite a few who can see the forest through the trees. People that don't know what they're doing and fry their devices should have to pay to get them repaired. Maybe Samsung's using the KNOX bit to help identify those people, maybe their not. Outside the above official statement I've seen nothing from Samsung that supports most of the XDA member rhetoric I've read across multiple Samsung forums tying a tripped KNOX bit to a devices overall warranty. To a degree, Samsung's already accomplished their goal by leaving the whole issue vague. Fear of KNOX has greatly reduced the number of people that root and those that do are 10x more careful. So their user-created warranty repair costs are already down. That's probably while we'll never hear "officially" that the KNOX "1" doesn't void your warranty completely. Why would they want to encourage behavior that causes them a potential downside.
When I went to best buy and spoke with a Samsung rep from their samsung booth, the lady confirmed that as soon as you root your Samsung phone, the warranty is void. That is samsung policy in North America. That is good enough for me to say screw samsung. Not to mention the garbage products they are releasing now a days. Samsung was on top with the Galaxy Nexus, the Captivate, and the S2 and S3. The S4 was the beginning of their downfall in my eyes. Slight upgrades each year, useless features, ugly ui that seems to get worse, and the heavily locked software. Not my kind of phone.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using XDA Free mobile app
Sent from my SGH-I747 using XDA Free mobile app
Well, as long as that "lady" who is a Best Buy employee in a Samsung shirt and is making probably $12 an hour says so it must be true.
Samsung doesn't sell phones directly in the U.S.; only through the carriers which are responsible for their support and warranty repairs. They will do direct repairs for carrier phones so that group within Samsung's policy on the KNOX bit is the only "official" one. So the Best Buy lady isn't really a barometer for Samsung's policy. Maybe the U.S. carriers do have individual policies regarding the KNOX bit and a device's warranty, maybe they don't. You'd think with the N3 being out for seven months if any of the U.S. carriers were taking a hard line on KNOX we'd have heard by now. Same thing with Samsung's U.S. repair center which repaired and reset the KNOX flag for an XDA member as referenced in my earlier post
It's been asked before, does anyone have links to posts where Samsung's denied obvious defect repairs solely because the KNOX bit was tripped? I've seen fear of it happening, and reports of threats by Samsung or their reps that it could happen, but haven't seen any documented cases where it has. I have seen quite a few "Score, Samsung repaired my device even though KNOX was tripped" posts.
Well, as long as that "lady" who is a Best Buy employee in a Samsung shirt and is making probably $12 an hour says so it must be true.
Samsung doesn't sell phones directly in the U.S.; only through the carriers which are responsible for their support and warranty repairs. They will do direct repairs for carrier phones so that group within Samsung's policy on the KNOX bit is the only "official" one. So the Best Buy lady isn't really a barometer for Samsung's policy. Maybe the U.S. carriers do have individual policies regarding the KNOX bit and a device's warranty, maybe they don't. You'd think with the N3 being out for seven months if any of the U.S. carriers were taking a hard line on KNOX we'd have heard by now. Same thing with Samsung's U.S. repair center which repaired and reset the KNOX flag for an XDA member as referenced in my earlier post
It's been asked before, does anyone have links to posts where Samsung's denied obvious defect repairs solely because the KNOX bit was tripped? I've seen fear of it happening, and reports of threats by Samsung or their reps that it could happen, but haven't seen any documented cases where it has. I have seen quite a few "Score, Samsung repaired my device even though KNOX was tripped" posts.
The lady was an employee of Samsung not best buy. That was my first question to her.
I don't have any written proof that is their policy, but I'm going on what I've been told by Samsung reps. I'm not even so discouraged by the fact it may void your warranty, as I've never used my phone warranty before. I'm more discouraged due to their product quality and lack of innovation and design (recent products to be specific) and the fact that developers are getting quite frustrated with developing roms for their phones as well. I know of many developers who have moved on to the nexus line for this reason, and I can't say I blame them.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using XDA Free mobile app
I used to own a Motorola atrix 4g. when I unlocked the bootloader the screen always said unlocked in the upper right side. i had screwed up somehow flashing something and the phone simply wouldnt boot. I was a newbie and didn't know about rsd lite being an option to flash back to stock. I went to an att service center . the manager got on the phone with her supervisor and was told to exchange the phone. i actually did this three times in one year. whenever i walked in the employees would roll their eyes . the one time they did not replace my phone was when i physically damaged it. so from that experience i understood that software problems do not necessary void a warranty but physical damage that causes hardware failure will always void warranty.
later on i learned that unlocking the bootloader tripped a physical fuse much like tripping knox but there was a way to "re-lock" the bootloader and remove the unlocked text. given time ,there is a strong possibility that some developers will figure out how to fix this issue. Samsung is not obliged to tell us how thier service centers are resetting knox but i think by now we can agree that it can be done. .
later on i learned that unlocking the bootloader tripped a physical fuse much like tripping knox but there was a way to "re-lock" the bootloader and remove the unlocked text. given time ,there is a strong possibility that some developers will figure out how to fix this issue. Samsung is not obliged to tell us how thier service centers are resetting knox but i think by now we can agree that it can be done. .
I was interested seeing, what Samsung says about rooting before I bought my phone.
Samsung is still saying, that rooting voids any type of warranty. Even after linking them to old story how one of EU Regul tehnicly allows you to root and you would probably void only software warranty (its **** anyway, as reinstall is first thing they do in service center).
After they told me it still voids warranty, I e-mailed goverment organization, which is resposible about customer rights etc. I linked them to this regula and another topic from guys who "digged it deep". Answer was still the same - Samsung is allowed to void warranty in this case, just because they have stated it in their warranty paper.
So only way I can get it fixed in Latvia is by Court... Or lucky service center specialist.
Samsung is still saying, that rooting voids any type of warranty. Even after linking them to old story how one of EU Regul tehnicly allows you to root and you would probably void only software warranty (its **** anyway, as reinstall is first thing they do in service center).
After they told me it still voids warranty, I e-mailed goverment organization, which is resposible about customer rights etc. I linked them to this regula and another topic from guys who "digged it deep". Answer was still the same - Samsung is allowed to void warranty in this case, just because they have stated it in their warranty paper.
So only way I can get it fixed in Latvia is by Court... Or lucky service center specialist.
Knox? No problem!
Bought a Sprint 900P at Best Buy and brought it in at 0x1 because of a GPS issue, and the geek squad guy laughed when he looked at it. He saw that I not only rooted, but I had MOAR Rom on it.
Then, he asked me what my screen name on XDA was.
Stop fearing knox, people.
Bought a Sprint 900P at Best Buy and brought it in at 0x1 because of a GPS issue, and the geek squad guy laughed when he looked at it. He saw that I not only rooted, but I had MOAR Rom on it.
Then, he asked me what my screen name on XDA was.
Stop fearing knox, people.
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5I read that article this morning. All it means is I'm done with Samsung until they revamp their Knox / warranty policy. When you spend hundreds of dollars on a phone, you should be able to customize the software without voiding your warranty. Samsung is garbage now.
When I buy a computer that is preloaded with Windows, then install Linux to dual boot, I don't void my warranty on it. Why should it be different with a phone?
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app3I never cared for warranty stuff,as far as I'm concerned, Knox can kiss my a$$.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk2Samsung Knox 2.0 brings two-factor authentication and better sandboxing
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