Samsung Disappoints on Yet Another Front

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rkirmeier

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2010
383
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This thread really has been a good exercise in shaking out the Samsung cheerleaders, hasn't it? I bring up an availability concern and you'd think I went around personally slapping some folks upside the head. Oddly, I have yet to see any retort of technical merit. Fascinating...

You sound more like a naggy complaining wife who needs to be heard and acknowledged. Yes, dear... IT really sucks that Samsung's services went down for a faction of a day because they had a major fire. Those bastards, they should burn in hell.

Feel better now???

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

Samsung.com, samsung app and media stores, Hancom updater, cloud backup and restore. In my case, I was working on updating client docs for a morning meeting and only had my tablet with me. When I tried to use Hword, it kept bombing out for some reason. As a last resort, I figured if try to reinstall Hword, but couldn't because the samsung App Store was unavailable. I ended up buying Polaris office just so I could finish working. Not sure why Hword was dead, but it worked fine after the App Store came back online and I was able to reinstall.

Sounds like life... You experience a problem and worked around it. Get over it!

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 PM ----------

Personally, I wish Samsung would stop trying to host content and services for these devices and fall back to letting google do that part. Nothing spells fun like orphaned apps if I switch tablets. Just ask apple, they have a pile of them I left behind when I dumped my iPad.

So you wish Samsung wouldn't do this and there are clearly many other options but you use there services anyways? Make perfect sense!

I personally have no interest in Samsungs hosted services. I disabled the samsung app store and apps like hword. Did you try using Quick Office from Google and Google Drive or Dropbox?
 
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dodo99x

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Apr 2, 2011
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Mike02z

Senior Member
Feb 3, 2012
1,953
795
Greenville, SC
OnePlus 9 Pro
Guess I'm the ass. I take it seriously for two reasons. 1. I forked over serious cash for a device that is supposed to be a business tool and expect Samsung to provide services at an appropriate level as such. 2. Infrastructure design has been my life for nearly two decades, so I see failures like this in a different light than most folks on here. If you think I'm overstating my position, realize that there are some IT folks who did or probably will lose their jobs over that outage.

As for netflix being unavailable at your house for months on end, wow. I can't believe that people tolerate handing cash over to a company (guessing your ISP in this case, maybe Comcast?) while they blatantly refuse to provide the services that you subscribed to (aka the best effort clause in every service provider agreement).

Personally, I wish Samsung would stop trying to host content and services for these devices and fall back to letting google do that part. Nothing spells fun like orphaned apps if I switch tablets. Just ask apple, they have a pile of them I left behind when I dumped my iPad.


Most likely Samsung outsources their network infrastructure and may even outsource the server infrastructure or entire data center. In this day and age there is no single finger to point in most cases. It is a mass of managed service providers that don't reveal the over extension of resources both infrastructure and human. Most companies don't care as they have payed for a fully managed service. All they know they are now paying 30% less in annual maintenance costs and then simply monetarily penalize the vendors for not meeting their SLA commitments.

While the tide may be changing, most large to very large companies use managed services for many if not most IT functions. Many have moved to the big boys of HP, IBM, SunGard, Google etc. to manage their entire IT Infrastructure including networking and data center management.

All that being said, I think people throw "5 9's" around just because they read it someplace. I believe 5 9;s for a 24x7 operation is about 8 minutes (maybe it's 20 but not doing the math) of downtime per year. This is an extremely difficult metric to achieve. Even with clustered environments and dual path independent network providers, things happen. We have a large array that is 5 9's availability but that didn't stop an inexperienced vendor technician from taking the main array down for maintenance and then pulling the wrong cable and bringing down the redundant array and pulling the disk out from about 100+ DB servers for a top 50 Fortune 500 company. When we asked what happened to the tech as part of the Post Mortem, we were told he was pulled from our account and will undergo "further training". Sh*t happens and it seems some companies have lost the traditional pride in having in-house resources manage these large environments. It all comes down to $$$.

Just as an FYI I have nearly 30 years experience in managing enterprise class Tier 2/3/4 data centers and related services.

Off my soapbox now :)
 
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dpersuhn

Member
Jan 26, 2008
38
8
I couldn't agree more. Maintaining that level of availability requires an exceptional level of change control discipline, peer review, and fault tolerance. It adds cost and makes system maintenance, upgrades, and changes a huge pain in the a$$. IF Samsung outsourced this, you're also correct that the SLA breach (depending in the contract terms) would likely carry a financial penalty.

I use five nines as an extreme example, but also point out that Google was only showing availability on the order of four nines.

Had a single service been affected, I wouldn't have thought much about it. Had everything been down for an hour or so, it would have been a major outage, but I'd reasonably give them that one. It's the fact that everything was offline for half a day that I found to be a bit striking for a company that markets products that advertise a number of those services as core features.

Maybe a post-mortem will cause samsung to revise their DR strategy, maybe it won't. Without knowing what their service level targets are, who could say. Perhaps they regard the services offered as purely for entertainment purposes and consider the outage to be perfectly acceptable, as many on this forum do. Hopefully it will never be tested again, especially with a life-threatening disaster.

My bottom line point is that this outage demonstrated what a service loss at Samsung could look like. Samsung promotes their pro line tablets as business tools. They never stated what kind of reliability comes with the backend services that accompany those business tools, but now we know and can plan accordingly. If you could find yourself in a position where loss of access for half a day would put you in a bind, it became apparent that alternative solutions need to be considered. Samsung may never have another outage of this sort again, but they aren't publishing an SLA to their customers, so historical data is all we can use and this event was historically significant. I guess I'm the only one that was surprised or even bothered by it, which is fine. In such a case, Samsung is doing exactly as they should, spending the minimum amount of money to provide a service level that just meets the demands of the majority of their customer base.

XDA members represent a small subset of the user base and one that I would consider to be more demanding of their devices than the average user. This thread has yielded some really interesting perspectives on what people consider to be appropriate service levels for consumer services in modern times. I'm obviously an outlier on high availability side, but what would have been the other end of that spectrum? A full day? Two? A week? Just curious...

Maybe my clients are spending way too much on availability because they assume the average consumer is more demanding than they really are. Restoring from backups to a DR site is certainly cheaper than maintaining multiple active datacenters and near realtime data replication across a distance that can be considered survivable in the event of a natural disaster.
 

Mike02z

Senior Member
Feb 3, 2012
1,953
795
Greenville, SC
OnePlus 9 Pro
I couldn't agree more. Maintaining that level of availability requires an exceptional level of change control discipline, peer review, and fault tolerance. It adds cost and makes system maintenance, upgrades, and changes a huge pain in the a$$. IF Samsung outsourced this, you're also correct that the SLA breach (depending in the contract terms) would likely carry a financial penalty.

I use five nines as an extreme example, but also point out that Google was only showing availability on the order of four nines.

Had a single service been affected, I wouldn't have thought much about it. Had everything been down for an hour or so, it would have been a major outage, but I'd reasonably give them that one. It's the fact that everything was offline for half a day that I found to be a bit striking for a company that markets products that advertise a number of those services as core features.

Maybe a post-mortem will cause samsung to revise their DR strategy, maybe it won't. Without knowing what their service level targets are, who could say. Perhaps they regard the services offered as purely for entertainment purposes and consider the outage to be perfectly acceptable, as many on this forum do. Hopefully it will never be tested again, especially with a life-threatening disaster.

My bottom line point is that this outage demonstrated what a service loss at Samsung could look like. Samsung promotes their pro line tablets as business tools. They never stated what kind of reliability comes with the backend services that accompany those business tools, but now we know and can plan accordingly. If you could find yourself in a position where loss of access for half a day would put you in a bind, it became apparent that alternative solutions need to be considered. Samsung may never have another outage of this sort again, but they aren't publishing an SLA to their customers, so historical data is all we can use and this event was historically significant. I guess I'm the only one that was surprised or even bothered by it, which is fine. In such a case, Samsung is doing exactly as they should, spending the minimum amount of money to provide a service level that just meets the demands of the majority of their customer base.

XDA members represent a small subset of the user base and one that I would consider to be more demanding of their devices than the average user. This thread has yielded some really interesting perspectives on what people consider to be appropriate service levels for consumer services in modern times. I'm obviously an outlier on high availability side, but what would have been the other end of that spectrum? A full day? Two? A week? Just curious...

Maybe my clients are spending way too much on availability because they assume the average consumer is more demanding than they really are. Restoring from backups to a DR site is certainly cheaper than maintaining multiple active datacenters and near realtime data replication across a distance that can be considered survivable in the event of a natural disaster.

All valid points. I suspect under the "Terms of Service" you accept when you first setup the device it states somewhere that their service(s) being down can in no way be held against them.
 

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    All global site access down for somewhere between 4 and 8 hours without prior notice... That would be a career ending event for me or any of the folks I work with
    2
    Just for comparison. Google's average website availability is currently tracked at 99.984%. That's less than 5 minutes per month of total downtime. To hold the same measure of availability after that outage, Samsung would have to never have a single second of downtime for at least the next four years (I didn't track the exact duration of the outage, so I'm using the most favorable number that I've seen). And even with that service level, I'd bet my career that the only downtime of the Google website has been software / server related, not infrastructure.

    When exactly was it that you experienced an EXTENDED outage with Google, eBay, or Amazon?


    With all your ranting and claims you apparently have a high level of technical skills but no common sense. Samsung is not monitoring XDA for your personal rant on their lack of service redundancy and down time due to a major fire! Get over it and do something productive!
    1
    They had a major fire. Thankfully there were no fatalities. Let's not overreact to a very minor and temporary inconvenience.

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    1
    I don't think you'll get any argument that it would have been great if service didn't go down for as long as it did . . Nor do I think that people are having issue with separating personal safety from service availability. The issue more likely stems from the varying degree of tolerance for service interruptions.

    On saturday night I was setting up my new tablet when I realized something was wrong with Samsung services. I poked around, realized that the incident was occurring, shrugged my shoulders and moved on to do something else before turning in for the night. Come sunday morning everything was back up and I didn't give the issue a second thought.

    We get what you're saying; there's obvious room for improvement, but it could have been worse too . .
    1
    Not a hater, just a realist. I'll reiterate that I hope nobody was injured.

    That said, I'm speaking from a business perspective, not am personal attack on the employees of that datacenter. I've been designing networks and high availability data centers for nearly two decades and most of my customers demand 99.999% availability for customer facing services. These things would be served out of multiple active locations, not a single location with some dodgy backup. Even better, the non personal stuff like the app and media stores would be served by a CDN. In any case, the loss of a site would immediately reroute traffic and the time it takes for DNS cache to expire would likely be the slowest part.

    It isn't insensitive to say that this incident pointed out a shortcoming and when you add it to numerous other recent issues with samsung tablets, the overall picture is disappointing. I went through a number of 10.1 2014 edition tablets before giving up on the faulty BT on that device, as Samsung never addressed it. I buy a note pro 12.2 that resolves it and the Hancom software wasn't pre installed or available to download on release day, now this. It's just a growing list of things that are each small, but show that Samsung just isn't on the ball when it comes to fit and finish. They make the only reasonably usable Android tablet with an active digitizer, so they get my business for now.

    I'm not sure why the folks here can't separate a comment on service availability from the matter of personal safety. I'm not suggesting people should have been placed in harm's way to keep things running. I'm stating that there are design shortcomings in how the service is delivered.

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    Well it sure does piss me off when google goes down, or ebay, or amazon, or any number of websites and services that go down unexpectedly. So why is it that absolutley none of these seem to have a flawless system of backups and service availability like you say they should despite being huge companies. I guess if they all hired you none of them would ever have service interuptions.

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