PUK code if i am correct is a code if you want to transfer say your number from ATT to Verizon. And ATT give you that code to give to Verizon and voila Verizon gives you the same number you had on ATT.
HTC Bootloader and Warranty an on-line conversation
- Thread starter f4flake
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PUK code if i am correct is a code if you want to transfer say your number from ATT to Verizon. And ATT give you that code to give to Verizon and voila Verizon gives you the same number you had on ATT.
PUK code if i am correct is a code if you want to transfer say your number from ATT to Verizon. And ATT give you that code to give to Verizon and voila Verizon gives you the same number you had on ATT.
That's a PAC (Port Authorisation Code).
A PUK (Personal Unblocking Key) is basically a pin code for your sim.
Yes, but under the warranty, HTC could not send you back a bricked device. It has to be returned in a factory condition. And by unlocking the phone, you have acted outside of the terms if the warranty. Regardless of the reason you requested a repair. Just my two cents....
Get ya swag on...
You can say it any way you like.....doesn't change the fact that in most countries this will not be legal. Not for unrelated faults anyway. And I doubt Motorola's developer device would stand a legal challenge either in that respect.
All these guys (htc etc.) will happily give it a try until someone takes them to court and then that's the end of this BS.
To pick up on the example of the car and the ECU ( tuning the engine): your problem of you blow up the engine. Not your problem if the wipers stop working or the radio dies etc.
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FCC is an American organisation with no jurisdiction outside of America. My understanding is that in the UK, it's against the law to prevent you from moving to another carrier, which is why PUK code exists. The carrier does not have a stake in the phone, which is why they tie you into a lengthy contract.
just a question: can HTC be sued now, say in the UK, since a lot are saying they'd lose in court if they indeed get sued because of their stand on this?
Well, I donwloaded my unlock.bin as soon as I got my HOX, in the off chance they stopped providing that service. I still haven't unlocked the bootloader, and I'd be very interested if they would refuse to repair my handset under warranty in this situation.
They MUST have a way to establish whether the bootloader has been unlocked and relocked, such as e-fuses someone mentioned earlier. If not and I am in this situation, I'd look forward to a legal argument!
They MUST have a way to establish whether the bootloader has been unlocked and relocked, such as e-fuses someone mentioned earlier. If not and I am in this situation, I'd look forward to a legal argument!
I assume you'd have to suffer a loss before you could sue them, probably via the small claims court(or equivalent if outside the UK).
We could do with a standard form letter that we could all use to bombard the various consumer groups etc.
They do have a way, if you try to re-lock then it will come up as a re-locked device. This is the reason many of us want S-off to protect ourselves against a bricked device either through faulty manufacturing or through user fault (although the user fault is probably only in 1% of cases as most s-off devices can be restored from a bricked state)
With s-off you should be able to re-lock the device without any signs of it ever being unlocked.
At least thats my understanding of it. I may be completely wrong.
This topic makes me sad reading it.
Most responsible buyers would check their device before/at/just after purchase. If the first thing you did was unlock the bootloader, fully well knowing it may void your warranty then 2 hours later your phone levitates and plays nursery rhymes backwords you kinda have yourself to blame for that.
XDA has countless posts stating the potential issues. This does not excuse HTC from giving us subpar devices but we all have a responsibility as consumers.
What pissed me off the most is there is no way to please most of you people. When HTC decided to lock the bootloaders everyone on XDA went into a rage and HTC did something you would never see Samsung and Apple doing. They gave us the option of unlocking it. They simply added a clause saying it may void your warranty and everyone is in an uproar. Tell me, was it better when our bootloaders was locked?
We developers/modders/hackers, whatever we call ourselves are in the very small minority. Out of everyone I know that owns an Android only me and another roots our devices. Try asking the average Joe what rooting is. I do not blame HTC for voiding warranties if we unlock cause honestly we are unlocking to tamper with the device. If a button falls off then fine, they should fix it regardless of unlocking status but if I can't change my ringtone I sure as hell wouldn't fix it as a defect if I were them. I'd assumed the owner messed it up somehow being able to flash ROMS and modify system files.
I currently own 3 Android tablets and 3 Android phones. I change them with the seasons so I've owned a lot. I frequent the respective forums for each to see what's new everyday. Check the first few pages for the LG Nitro General thread. You'll see at least 2 posts saying "Help, I've bricked my device". There are two threads on the first page about recovering from a brick right now. I'll end my point there.
Sorry for this extremely long post but this actually annoys me.
P.S. I haven't heard of any major lawsuits against HTC about them "breaking the law" by voiding warranties. Maybe one of you who is fed up of this should file one and let us know how it turns out.
Most responsible buyers would check their device before/at/just after purchase. If the first thing you did was unlock the bootloader, fully well knowing it may void your warranty then 2 hours later your phone levitates and plays nursery rhymes backwords you kinda have yourself to blame for that.
XDA has countless posts stating the potential issues. This does not excuse HTC from giving us subpar devices but we all have a responsibility as consumers.
What pissed me off the most is there is no way to please most of you people. When HTC decided to lock the bootloaders everyone on XDA went into a rage and HTC did something you would never see Samsung and Apple doing. They gave us the option of unlocking it. They simply added a clause saying it may void your warranty and everyone is in an uproar. Tell me, was it better when our bootloaders was locked?
We developers/modders/hackers, whatever we call ourselves are in the very small minority. Out of everyone I know that owns an Android only me and another roots our devices. Try asking the average Joe what rooting is. I do not blame HTC for voiding warranties if we unlock cause honestly we are unlocking to tamper with the device. If a button falls off then fine, they should fix it regardless of unlocking status but if I can't change my ringtone I sure as hell wouldn't fix it as a defect if I were them. I'd assumed the owner messed it up somehow being able to flash ROMS and modify system files.
I currently own 3 Android tablets and 3 Android phones. I change them with the seasons so I've owned a lot. I frequent the respective forums for each to see what's new everyday. Check the first few pages for the LG Nitro General thread. You'll see at least 2 posts saying "Help, I've bricked my device". There are two threads on the first page about recovering from a brick right now. I'll end my point there.
Sorry for this extremely long post but this actually annoys me.
P.S. I haven't heard of any major lawsuits against HTC about them "breaking the law" by voiding warranties. Maybe one of you who is fed up of this should file one and let us know how it turns out.
No you don't. If I didn't cause a fault, the only person to blame for it is HTC.
For our own actions, yes. For the flawed manufacturing practices of HTC, no.
Leave Apple out of this.
As for saintly HTC giving their apparently worthless customers the ability to unlock the bootloader they themselves locked (For no good reason) I point you to Samsung. They don't have S-OFF or S-ON. You just get ODIN and Download Mode and you're free to do as you like.
If a company "assumes" things based on the assumption that the person you're dealing with is incompetent then it says quite a lot about the company.
That's because I highly doubt they'd actually try to pull that trick on someone in practice.
Guys,
We could keep this discussion up for years,or we could try to find a solution that makes us Happy.
We Should do everything we can to support the S-OFF development.
I know there are some poeple working on it, But we might be able to speed that process up by:
1-Starting a Bounty topic for the people that manage getting S-Off
2- Donating some money so the devs could by a S-off device.
and so on...
We could keep this discussion up for years,or we could try to find a solution that makes us Happy.
We Should do everything we can to support the S-OFF development.
I know there are some poeple working on it, But we might be able to speed that process up by:
1-Starting a Bounty topic for the people that manage getting S-Off
2- Donating some money so the devs could by a S-off device.
and so on...
Here I my reply after asking about warranty:
Why would they want my IMEI, so they can mark the phone as rooted?
Why would they want my IMEI, so they can mark the phone as rooted?
If you're based in Europe they are talking ****e.
Tell them they have to repair the phone, under warranty. Any suggestions otherwise is illegal.
And push to "return it to factory" state is inertia selling and also illegal.
They will be trying this on in every territory.
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41I am currently in conversation with HTC about the warranty.
Here's part 1.
Customer Chat
Chat Transcript
Please wait while we find an agent to assist you...
You have been connected to Ryan B.
Ryan B: Hi Paul, thank you for contacting HTC Support. How may I help you today?
F4flake: I've recently become the owner of a HTC one x
F4flake: the boot loader is locked and as such I am unable to perform any administrative tasks with the software
F4flake: I wish to be able to gain root access as the device is mine.
F4flake: there is a way of doing this of course but in order to do so I must unlock my bootloader
F4flake: there is an official process to do so over at HTCdev.com
F4flake: HOWEVER
F4flake: as part of the process it suggests that unlocking the bootloader MAY invalidate my warrentee
F4flake: As such I must seek clarification as
F4flake: 1. The phone is mine, I purchased hardware, nowhere was there an agreement where I said I would not excercise a fundamental administrative right over the software
F4flake: 2 In the UK a provider cannot simply wash their hands of responsibility from their product.
F4flake: 3. The wording is extremely non-specific
F4flake: your turn
F4flake: are you still there?
Ryan B: We will not wash our hands of the customer just because they have rooted their phone, if the customer bricks the phone we can not cover this under warranty as this was not a manufacture issue.
F4flake: then under what circumstances is the warranty void?
Ryan B: But if the customer has rooted their device we can un-root the phone but this will involve changing the motherboard in the phone and this will be a chargeable repair.
F4flake: ok, do you want to call a supervisor? Only unrooting a linux installation does not, I can assure you, require replacing a motherboard
F4flake: also my question remains unanswered. Under what specific circumstances is the warranty invalidated
Ryan B: If the phone has illegal software, the motherboard needs to be changed.
Ryan B: Please note that if our engineers determine that the fault you are experiencing is caused by physical damage, wear and tear or illegal software, it will not be covered by warranty. The repair will be chargeable and we will send you a quote. Should you not wish to pay that quote, there will be an approximate £25 diagnosis, shipping & handling fee to have the device returned to you and not repaired.
Liquid-damaged devices are returned immediately, unrepaired and without charge as they are beyond economic repair.
F4flake: how are you defining illegal? and in what way does a motherboard need changing when it can be simply flashed with the correct software?
F4flake: also, I don't have a problem, I'm simply seeking clarification of the rather vague statement at htcdev
F4flake: can I see a copy of anything that could possibly mean I could in any way load illegal software on my phone? I'm fairly intrigued by this possibility
Ryan B: Illegal as in the sense of someone taking a ROM and customizing it without consent. Regarding the motherboard replacement, this is what HTC have to do as the security will be turned off on the phone displaying that the phone has been tampered with.
F4flake: well on the second point, if the security on a phone is removed, are we talking about an unlocked bootloader or a security flag referred to as s-on or s-off?
Ryan B: That's correct.
F4flake: because once again NEITHER would require replacing a mainboard
F4flake: and what's correct? the first example or the second?
F4flake: the bootloader is not the security flag
F4flake: also, what do you mean by illegally customizing a ROM? Android is open source
F4flake: what part of android would be being illegally customized?
F4flake: Sorry, are you still with me?
Ryan B: You need to S-Off the phone which involves unlocking the bootloader and this will void the warranty. The ROM can be customized by many users and we do not support this.
F4flake: sorry, in order to install a different rom you don't need to s-off your phone.
F4flake: you would need to unlock your bootloader
F4flake: you may not support people making their own ROM but is that actually illegal?
F4flake: have you taken it to court somewhere?
F4flake: look I'm just looking for clarification as to what remains and what doesn't remain of my warranty if I unlock my bootloader.
Ryan B: No but we just say illegal but in the office we say custom software.
F4flake: while I'm sure it isn't a conversation you particularly want to have, unfortunately the HTC dev site is really non-specific
F4flake: so when you say illegal you mean legal then?
Ryan B: I understand.
F4flake: only I'm all for nuance, and "custom software" isn't lost on me
F4flake: so shall we get back to the crux
F4flake: what part of the warranty is invalidated?
Ryan B: No Head Office have told us to say illegal as if any stock ROM is tampered with it's not supported by us.
F4flake: why am I unable to have root access, just as I do with the laptop I've purchased
Ryan B: You are allowed but we do not support this and the whole warranty will be void.
F4flake: ok but head office may have said it, but if it is unprosecuted and unlegislated, then seriously. it's a fairly frivoulous phrase to throw around
F4flake: hang on, if I unlock the bootloader the whole warranty is void?
Ryan B: That is correct as the phone has been tampered with.
F4flake: even though you provide the tool to do it officially?
F4flake: only the htcdev site says it "may" void the warranty. surely it'd be simpler if it simply stated that it absolutely would invalidate all your warranty?
Ryan B: It is there for the customers own use we do not promote rooting devices.
F4flake: also, I think you'll find it's not legal in the UK
F4flake: So let me get this straight and I'll leave you alone I promise.
F4flake: the act of using the htcdev official bootloader unlock function entirely invalidates your warranty?
Ryan B: Only if the bootloader is unlocked.
F4flake: Ok, I know I said I was well up for nuance, but is there a distinction I'm missing there?
F4flake: I was expecting a yes or no answer
Ryan B: No there isn't.
F4flake: Sorry Ryan, can you explain, only your answers appear to be somewhat ambiguous
F4flake: If the bootloader is unlocked, is the warranty void?
Ryan B: One moment please i am getting someone who can help you further.
F4flake: thank you ryan21part 2.
Luke: Hi, Paul
F4flake: Hi luke
F4flake: Are you reading through or should I go from the top?
Luke: Just need a moment to read through this chat log, I understand you are not happy that unlocking the bootloader of your device voids your warranty, is that right?
F4flake: No, not as such.
F4flake: I'm seeking clarification as to what "may" void your warranty means.
Luke: Unlocking the bootloader of your device will remove the warranty.
F4flake: Ok, should that not be reflected at HTC dev?
Luke: The main reason for this is due to the fact you can perform administrative tasks on the phone, for example over clocking. This can be done. We cannot condone that this will be in warranty as any damages that may occur in the future may have been caused by you performing one of these actions.
Luke: The HTC dev site is there for developers
F4flake: Of course it is, but the developers will shortly not be there for HTC
Luke: What do you mean?
F4flake: So let me get this straight, The act of unlocking the bootloader voids warranty in its entirety?
Luke: Yes
Luke: All repairs will be chargeable
F4flake: Then I guess I will have to return my handset, inform my twitter followers and post the entire conversation on xda.
F4flake: I imagine there are a whole bunch of users world wide who will be interested to know they can no longer look to HTC for their purchases.
F4flake: Thank you for your clarification.
F4flake: I believe that's everything I need to know. Thank you for your time.
Luke: Thank you for your time Paul. I am sorry to hear that you are unhappy that opening the bootloader of your device will void your warranty.
Luke: I apologise I could be of no further assistance to you.
Luke: Is there anything else I can help you with today?
F4flake: Not yet, I will shortly be questioning the legality of that statement with my friendly neighbourhood consumer rights person. As I don't believe it will stand up under UK law, Has anyone tested it yet?
Luke: I wouldn't know that Paul.
Luke: Thanks for chatting with me today, Paul. To end our conversation, please click End Session. You’ll be invited to take a short survey which I’d be grateful if you took a moment to complete. Enjoy the rest of your day!
F4flake: cheers.4
You must clearly work for HTC.
Unlocking a bootloader does NOT void warranty under EU law. It can't. It won't.
Even if you sign it - it doesn't apply because you can't waiver your right as a consumer under any circumstances.
Whether HTC service center accepts the repair from the seller - I couldn't care less, let them go bankrupt when people stop selling and buying their phones.
The first thing I did to my phone was unlock via htcdev, root and install a custom ROM. That's what I do with most handsets and all my computers.
I noticed htcdev terms saying it "may" void my warranty, and I'm cool with that because I know it won't (because I won't use the software to destroy the hardware, messing with voltages etc. -is that even possible?).
Law is very clear in this case, whatever defect you want repair under warranty has to be repair free of charge unless YOU CAUSED IT. This can't be limited in any way, under any agreement.
Your analogies with us jumping off the cliff are just utter nonsense.
Stop making a fool of yourself, we get it - you love HTC because (you work there|get paid by them|hope to get paid by them|I being blackmailed), but please stop spreading FUD.4I understand both sides of the argument here. But I side with HTC.
If you agreed to the fact that you "may" lose your warranty, then consider your warranty gone.
Users need to know & completely understand the risks of modifying their handsets, either soft or hardware.
One hypothetical question.
Now, yes there are differences but the gist is the same.
You agreed to do something that may invalidate your warranty. Consider it gone.
FYI. I have unlocked my handset through HTCDev. And the 32" LCD TV was my mums, I was 14.4I am pretty much shocked.
1. HTC Dev states CLEARLY a "MAY VOID", not "WILL VOID". This is major.
2. Android stands for customizing and modding. Why do you think most Android phones are successful? Why do you think the Galaxy Nexus is so popular worldwide? Why do you think the Android OS slowly becomes the number one mobile OS in the world? Because you actually can do something with your phone instead of being held in a golden cage where the manufacturer tells you what to do with your effin expensive gadget.
3. HTC should really consider their sights on unlocking and rooting. Most manufacturers do give you the option freely without voiding the whole warranty. I wont just look away because HTC tells me "Too bad bro, thats how we roll!". There are enough other devices from many other good manufacturers (Google, Samsung, Huawei, Sony), where your warranty isnt completely voided if you root your device.
4. It's ridiculous to say "you can overclock your cpu with a rooted and unlocked device". First off, you need a custom kernel for that. Just an unlock and root doesnt count. Most people root to get more out of the system. I actually never overclocked my devices except for my already years old Motorola Milestone. All the other devices were kept at stock speeds. And for Tegra 3 1,5Ghz, I guess its totally not needed anymore to overclock, maybe underclock for better power management and less heat generation.
5. Android is open source, and therefore, we should be able to mod and root it to get the most out of our mobile experience with this amazing OS. Since its open source, Manufacturers shouldn't be able or shouldn't even think about telling us how to use their goddamn phones software wise (if it stays within the same mobile system). If they want otherwise, go develop your own damn mobile OS you can control. Nobody forces you to use Googles software.
6. As already said, this could become difficult for HTC to stand up in court, if it should come this far some day. They shouldn't be able to hide behind the fact of rooting and unlocking when there are obvious manufacturing issues or problems. What do have yellow display spots, broken cameras, faulty wlan modules, cracking cases, rattling vibration motors or screen distortions on pressure for example have to do with an unlocked bootloader or a rooted android system? I can understand the argument about a damaged chipset/cpu due to overclocking, but the rest?
If HTC sticks to that policy, the HTC One X will be the last HTC device for me and go back to Samsung (or maybe I will try out the next Nexus Device). I love my One X and all, but with manufacturer-issues like that and all that legal/illegal **** it got me thinking.
