Posting Etiquette - Don't Anger a Developer

jangst123 · Feb 6, 2013

IF YOU WERE GIVEN A LINK TO THIS THREAD BY ANOTHER MEMBER OF XDA IT'S PROBABLY FOR A GOOD REASON!
PLEASE HEED THE WARNING, TAKE A LITTLE LESSON IN POSTING ETIQUETTE, BEFORE YOU ARE REPORTED TO A MOD, IF THAT HAS NOT ALREADY HAPPENED.

Far too often people post in threads without thinking of the developers feelings and it's becoming a big problem!
Think of it this way!
You just spent countless hours working building your new custom car.
Now your such a nice guy you let people take it for a drive and check it out for FREE!
How would feel if they come back and most LOVE IT and appreciate the work you've done but,,
some say..
"It uses too much gas"
"It's way too slow"
"It hesitates when I tow a tractor trailer"
"I Hate the colors"

If you were the developer sharing your hard work for free and reading comments like that, you would think, Dam What a ^%*&%^*& *&^*&^, why am letting people trash my hard work!?! Heck with this, I don't need this!

THINK A LITTLE BEFORE POSTING!!

In stead of saying
"This ROM sucks the life out of my battery"
Try
"How is everyone's battery life on this? I'm getting 10 hours with 2 hours screen on time. This is my 3rd battery cycle, I'm on WIFI 90% of the time. I installed BetterBattery Stats and it shows xxx. Any recommendations / ideas? Also did A Clean with a full wipe, did not flash and mods / kernels" Even better add a Logcat, you may find in the logcat that X app is checking your location every 2 seconds and shows up 1000 times in the log.

In stead of saying
"This sucks! Every time I open the camera it crashes"
Try
"Is anyone else having this problem? For some reason every time I open the camera app it crashes. I tried redownloading the ROM, double checked the MD5, did a clean install, full wipe, and let it sit for 10 min after 1st boot then rebooted. Attached is the Logcat I grabbed using CatLog from the play store"

Look at that! That way your not assuming that the developer messed up! And you may actually be being helpful by providing a Logcat so he can actually look into the problem.
Making statements without providing information is,, well rude and not helpful to anyone!
And worst of all, it can discourage or drive the Developers away!
If you were smart enough to be able to make your own ROM - Kernel you would not need the Developers help, and could fix it yourself!
Most of us do not have the time and or brains to be a developer!
So PLEASE show some respect to the Developers that are kind enough to share their work with us for FREE!
Hit their Thanks Button often, and consider buying them a Coke or Redbull aka Donate :highfive:

Same basic principal goes for when you reply to someone!
IMO if the question has already been asked and answered, quote the last answer. Or the part of the OP with the answer.
Better yet quote a few of the last times the question was answered and show that you can use the search feature.
To me, if you can show me the question has been answered 3 times already, I feel like a fool with egg on my face and will STFU.

Smart comments and rude answers, even just saying, use search, usually just leads to more useless comments and bickering for all of us to read through!
If you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything! Just move on

Next time you see someone posting like a jerk, try to provide a nice helpful answer and direct them to this post for a little lesson and consider reporting the post!! See next post for more info!

Please get with the program or expect to be reported and possibly banned for a period!
This includes asking or hinting at an ETA! Don't do it!

On that note here are a few words form Woody about reporting trouble makers

Woody said:
Use your best judgment. We don't need gestapo type reporting, but you get the idea of what is needed.

It would behoove (yes I said behoove) people to maybe look at how a report is done. My buddy TonyStark had put a thread together a while ago on how to use the Report function. {Guide} Getting a Moderators help. I also have it linked in my signature, as well. It can be intimidating a bit when you hit that button. Hopefully this will help.

One thing that I might add regarding the reluctance to report you posted above. All reports are anonymous. Only people who know the names are us (Mods) and the User who reported it. Not the person who is being reported (unless you, yourself post in the thread "Reported")

*********

Now at this point, I think that we have strayed from what this thread is trying to accomplish. Posting with Proper Etiquette. Let's turn it back to that, so that when people who are linked back here will understand why. You can always shoot me a PM if you have a question or anything like that.

And for crying out loud please learn to Logcat! There are apps for that that can make it easy.
Plus in my never to be humble opinion, if you can't logcat, you should not be flashing anything!

Also read this!

And I recommend reading the following from Recognized Contributor TonyStark

So you are tired of being called a noob - I want to shake the noob status
First and most important, read this New User Guides

TonyStark R.I.P. · Feb 6, 2013

Q: How do I contact a forum Moderator for -fill in the blank- on a problem with -fill in the blank-

I have been on XDA for years and have always found these steps to be the best. Not only for you but for the process as well. Please remember to be patient. If you do not receive a message (shown in 4) within 5 days, please re-post.

1) In the upper right hand corner OF EVERY POST you will find this.Click on the caution sign.

and now in 2013 format

2) Please fill the pertinent information into this screen. PLEASE do not make it personal or use colorful language. Just be brief and to the point

3) You need to make a selection in the drop down. PLEASE do not be overzealous in choosing a topic. In 95% of cases you will only need to choose Other - Non-urgent

4) You will receive a message

In most cases this will be followed by a resolution.

Hope this helps

ktetreault14 · Feb 6, 2013

Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer

A lot of people need this

Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium

sswb27 · Feb 6, 2013

Maybe a sticky is needed here.

jangst123 · Feb 6, 2013

Jelly419 said:
Praise!

Cool story, bro!
They call me "Jelly" cuz jam don't shake like this!

ktetreault14 said:
A lot of people need this

Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium

Hopefully the people that need it, actually read it!
Help out and stick this thread in your sig, or direct the people who need it here!
I'm beyond tired of seeing good developers leaving or getting pissed off by posts from people who post without thinking 1st!

CitrixLemon · Feb 6, 2013

Seriously, that's some kindergarten level basics...

jangst123 · Feb 6, 2013

CitrixLemon said:
Seriously, that's some kindergarten level basics...

You would think so!
But sadly we have all seen them and way too often.
I think some people just forget themselves sometimes, at least I would like to think not that many, are that rude, all the time.

ingenious247 · Feb 6, 2013

I agree with what the OP is saying, however Devs also need to keep in mind there are many "not so savvy" Android users who wouldn't know how to run a logcat, even though they may have learned some of the basics of flashing. I think sometimes (and I'm not making excuses) some Devs are a little hot-headed and need to remember that there are always idiots out there who can ruin it for the rest of us.

Easy to just add the offending user to the ignore list.. instead of screwing over the people who are treating the Dev with respect.. just saying..

But yes, I still agree with the OP.

Woody · Feb 6, 2013

sswb27 said:
Maybe a sticky is needed here.

Not likely BUT this does give me an idea about something a little more (un)official that we could post and stick. I'm going to write something up and pitch it to the team and see what they think and refer them back to this thread.

I like the idea, but it has to be as general and vanilla as possible and cannot be black and white, otherwise it won't work.

jangst123 said:
You would think so!
But sadly we have all seen them and way too often.
I think some people just forget themselves sometimes, at least I would like to think not that many, are that rude, all the time.

You have no idea my man. No idea. You should see some of the stuff we deal with.

ingenious247 said:
I agree with what the OP is saying, however Devs also need to keep in mind there are many "not so savvy" Android users who wouldn't know how to run a logcat, even though they may have learned some of the basics of flashing. I think sometimes (and I'm not making excuses) some Devs are a little hot-headed and need to remember that there are always idiots out there who can ruin it for the rest of us.

Easy to just add the offending user to the ignore list.. instead of screwing over the people who are treating the Dev with respect.. just saying..

But yes, I still agree with the OP.

I like everything about this post. Some people need to be handheld just a bit longer so they can take their first steps. It is Pete and Re-Pete that are the problems.

In the old days, it was Logcat or GTFO. Then the stone got ground down a bit, then a bit more and now we are here. We are trying to make things more Developer oriented and to make it so that Devs are more cherished than they are now, but it all stems from how to get Users to realize this. Hopefully some guidelines and better n-etiquette will help to usher us back to those days.

I've known jangst123 for a long time, so I know that he is very passionate about this and wants the threads to be filled with awesome ROMs but also the community at-large to be a great place to get help, cool mods or bleeding edge development. I think that we all really want that, right? So let's make it happen.

ingenious247 · Feb 6, 2013

Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.

Really this falls back on the xda community as a whole, I know I've posted things before that could have been worded in a way that would have better served the user and the community, instead of my own cynicism or ego.. none of us are perfect, that includes the Devs.

mt3g · Feb 6, 2013

The best way I see it, now that I've been around the block. You can't take the internet serious anymore. It's difficult to always convey someones personality over text, without emoticons and "lol's" and ":good:" or ":highfive:"... I'm a prime example of that. I try to say lol, or put a winky face or what have you, but I try and get to the point and tell them its a few pages back... orrr I give them 10 links and tell it 'em took me 5 minutes to do that. I'm no search wizard or anything like that, I just use keywords and then read through things. The users that want things handed to them on a gold platter are a large issue at hand. I would go as far to say as 75% of the questions asked in a dev thread, are in the OP in one way shape or form. I have a q&a thread for Cm10 http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1813456 with 10.1 info (which is almost of use to all 4.2 roms out there)... I have a resource guide http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2088179 Which I'm still ironing things out (should do that today actually, haha) and I have a q&a for Illusion 4.2 rom http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2106546 which for the time being pertained to AOKP and Vanilla Rootbox for the most part. People have looked and looked over them for the most part and still ask the most redundant questions in the dev threads, and open new threads with stuff that I've covered already. If it's something I haven't covered, I answer them respectfully almost every time, and/or point them to a thread that will help them. This needs to be done more often to stop the unnecessary posts, which turn into bashing threads, which turn into more work for the mods. I agree with the OP, some devs will take things to heart and walk away and we are down more person or team that will help us with our phone "needs"

... Devs and themers and such just have to look at it this way... "You can't please them all"-some wise man... And I think I ranted long enough. LUNCH TIME!!!

Android_Monsters · Feb 6, 2013

Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer

We are doing way better than what was done on the t989 Hercules forums. We should keep it that way. At least til there is a real s4

Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium

Aerowinder · Feb 6, 2013

mt3g said:
The best way I see it, now that I've been around the block. You can't take the internet serious anymore.

This pretty much sums up all these, in my opinion, useless threads/posts. In one concise sentence.

Guys, we don't need a thread for common sense. People who lack common sense won't have sense enough to read the thread. In other words, you are preaching to the choir. This solves nothing.

Enforce the current forum rules. Ban, or at the very least, suspend idiots. Need more moderators, we don't have anywhere near the amount we need. Two to three moderators for each device forum. None of this would have happened. Rules aren't enforced, plain and simple. Rules that are not enforced will be ignored. Do you drive the speed limit? No. Why? Because the rule isn't enforced.

jangst123 · Feb 7, 2013

Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer

Woody said:
Not likely BUT this does give me an idea about something a little more (un)official that we could post and stick. I'm going to write something up and pitch it to the team and see what they think and refer them back to this thread.

I like the idea, but it has to be as general and vanilla as possible and cannot be black and white, otherwise it won't work.

You have no idea my man. No idea. You should see some of the stuff we deal with.

I like everything about this post. Some people need to be handheld just a bit longer so they can take their first steps. It is Pete and Re-Pete that are the problems.

In the old days, it was Logcat or GTFO. Then the stone got ground down a bit, then a bit more and now we are here. We are trying to make things more Developer oriented and to make it so that Devs are more cherished than they are now, but it all stems from how to get Users to realize this. Hopefully some guidelines and better n-etiquette will help to usher us back to those days.

I've known jangst123 for a long time, so I know that he is very passionate about this and wants the threads to be filled with awesome ROMs but also the community at-large to be a great place to get help, cool mods or bleeding edge development. I think that we all really want that, right? So let's make it happen.

Logcat or GTFO,, o the good old days!

I would love to see a thumbs up and thumbs down on each and every post.
And if your thumbs down is lower or than thumbs up, you can no longer post in development threads.
This would allow the community to police the threads and force people to think twice before posting.
But that is probably too complicated of a system change.
SO
Would it be possible to keep a ranking of sorts?
Something that checks posts to thanks count.
And you must have at least 1 thank for every 3 posts, to post in in anything other than general. Maybe even include the number of thanks given out in the equation.

Something needs to change.

Repeated questions are completely different than people being rude jerks.
Most of the repeated questions are a bit different than being rude. Repeated questions are probably best answered by quoting the last time it was answered. That way everyone can see it's been answered. And the poster should feel the egg on their face. Or by quoting part of the OP when needed.

I for one am willing to help in any way I can. Just let me know how I can help.
I don't have all that much spare time, I have a business to run, so I try to contribute and encourage developers by donating phones and cash to them. On the occasion I have some spare time and I come here to get away and get my crack flash on.
To see Developers get discouraged by rude posts, drives me crazy!

For now I'm pming offenders and kindly suggesting they read this thread.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium

minellium · Feb 7, 2013

Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer

Meh.... The rude and ignorant on tech forums of today are just the newest generation of AOL "me too"ers from yester-year. You couldn't take them seriously either.

I for one am grateful for those that pave the way in new arenas for me.

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2

CitrixLemon · Feb 7, 2013

ingenious247 said:
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.

Agreed. I absolutely despise people who post, "LEARN 2 USE SEARCH/GOOGLE" instead of simply providing whatever link or help the person is looking for, especially when it's a simple thing like how to get root.

jangst123 · Feb 7, 2013

ingenious247 said:
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.

Really this falls back on the xda community as a whole, I know I've posted things before that could have been worded in a way that would have better served the user and the community, instead of my own cynicism or ego.. none of us are perfect, that includes the Devs.

Your absolutely correct!
Responding in that way often starts a flame war.
If ya ain't got nothing nice or helpful to say, don't say it.
Quote the last correct answer to the question, or answer the question politely and move on.
Don't stir the pot.
Anything else often leads to 10 or more useless posts to read through.
I for one often don't have the time to read though all the extra crap that gets posted every time someone gets their feelings hurt.

I did not create this tread to address all the issues on XDA.
I created it to have a thread to point to when I come across the poster that needs a lesson in Posting Etiquette.
And hoping in doing so it would not anger the poster but help educate them a little.
So I would appreciate it if we can keep the discussion to, Posting Etiquette and how to nicely respond to those that need a lesson.

I will edit the OP later to include response etiquette.

lol,, just realized in my haste I spelled Etiquette - Ediquette :silly:

saranhai · Feb 7, 2013

unfortunately, stuff like this happens in almost every other device forum across XDA. it's stuff like this that makes us stop wanting to dev, stuff like this can even tear a development Team apart, as it almost did with Team Inferno. those who came from the MyTouch 4G know what i'm talking about. Team Inferno faced many haters, people who just wanted to do everything in their will to destroy a newborn team. it takes a bunch of endurance and encouragement, and i thank all those who supported Team Inferno, those who could see potential in a Team of noobs like us. we all start somewhere, nobody wakes up one day and decides "i'm going to be a dev" and by nightfall pushes out the best ROM/mod/kernel ever seen.
end users need to realize that we developers are not here to serve you. you don't pay us for the stuff we push out. we do it in our own free time, because we want to, we have an interest and a hobby.

to developers: don't get butthurt because of one or a couple of know-it-alls, there are people out there that will try to push you down. if you get pushed down by them, you're the only one hurt, they may even laugh at you. don't fall into their trap! because at the end of the day, you're not developing for others, you're developing because you want to, it's your hobby, and you want to share your work with others.

TL;DR?
read the whole thing you lazy butt.

TheLastSidekick · Feb 7, 2013

"Stop biting the hand that feeds you." I agree with the OP 100000%. Devs are intelligent people. They don't need to stoop to bull****.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

---------- Post added at 04:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 AM ----------

saranhai said:
unfortunately, stuff like this happens in almost every other device forum across XDA. it's stuff like this that makes us stop wanting to dev, stuff like this can even tear a development Team apart, as it almost did with Team Inferno. those who came from the MyTouch 4G know what i'm talking about. Team Inferno faced many haters, people who just wanted to do everything in their will to destroy a newborn team. it takes a bunch of endurance and encouragement, and i thank all those who supported Team Inferno, those who could see potential in a Team of noobs like us. we all start somewhere, nobody wakes up one day and decides "i'm going to be a dev" and by nightfall pushes out the best ROM/mod/kernel ever seen.
end users need to realize that we developers are not here to serve you. you don't pay us for the stuff we push out. we do it in our own free time, because we want to, we have an interest and a hobby.

to developers: don't get butthurt because of one or a couple of know-it-alls, there are people out there that will try to push you down. if you get pushed down by them, you're the only one hurt, they may even laugh at you. don't fall into their trap! because at the end of the day, you're not developing for others, you're developing because you want to, it's your hobby, and you want to share your work with others.

TL;DR?
read the whole thing you lazy butt.

Also, thank you for your work on XDA.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

l-levit · Feb 7, 2013

jangst123 said:
Logcat or GTFO,, o the good old days!

I would love to see a thumbs up and thumbs down on each and every post.
And if your thumbs down is lower or than thumbs up, you can no longer post in development threads.
This would allow the community to police the threads and force people to think twice before posting.
But that is probably too complicated of a system change.
SO
Would it be possible to keep a ranking of sorts?
Something that checks posts to thanks count.
And you must have at least 1 thank for every 3 posts, to post in in anything other than general. Maybe even include the number of thanks given out in the equation.

Something needs to change.

Repeated questions are completely different than people being rude jerks.
Most of the repeated questions are a bit different than being rude. Repeated questions are probably best answered by quoting the last time it was answered. That way everyone can see it's been answered. And the poster should feel the egg on their face. Or by quoting part of the OP when needed.

I for one am willing to help in any way I can. Just let me know how I can help.
I don't have all that much spare time, I have a business to run, so I try to contribute and encourage developers by donating phones and cash to them. On the occasion I have some spare time and I come here to get away and get my crack flash on.
To see Developers get discouraged by rude posts, drives me crazy!

For now I'm pming offenders and kindly suggesting they read this thread.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium

+1 Logcat or GTFO days! Those were the days!
Adding a link to my sig! Hopefully someone will read it, but I doubt the jerks that cause the problems will take the time to read it. They already know it all.
Now that I think about it, I don't post that often to begin with, so i doubt anyone will see mys sig, but i will give it a try.
I like the,, BAM Hammer idea, lol
It would be great if we could hit the thumbs down on their post and somehow vote them off the island!

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