[Q] Im bored...

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Shidapu

Shidapu

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2010
874
374
Gothenburg
Google Pixel
OnePlus 8T
Hello guys.. I'm a flashaholic.

The reason i'm here, is because i've just realized, that i haven't had my quick fix for some time now..

Everything seems so stable, except the *mic* issue, but hey, i fixed it with a hands-free.. Otherwise, i'm very happy with my phone, it works, it doesn't use up that much battery, and it doesn't crash, you can even do normal stuff to it.

But to the point.. I really, REALLY miss AOSP, especially the theming.
I can live with the occasional bugs, though i wish it could be at least somewhat stable.. *You know, im not that picky*.

But the one thing that keeps me from using AOSP; is the camera app from Sony, because i like taking pictures of my son, and the environment..
Are there any Camera app out there comparable to the Sony equivalent?

Oh, the urge..
 
V

V4LKyR

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2014
610
139
Shidapu said:
Hello guys.. I'm a flashaholic.

The reason i'm here, is because i've just realized, that i haven't had my quick fix for some time now..

Everything seems so stable, except the *mic* issue, but hey, i fixed it with a hands-free.. Otherwise, i'm very happy with my phone, it works, it doesn't use up that much battery, and it doesn't crash, you can even do normal stuff to it.

But to the point.. I really, REALLY miss AOSP, especially the theming.
I can live with the occasional bugs, though i wish it could be at least somewhat stable.. *You know, im not that picky*.

But the one thing that keeps me from using AOSP; is the camera app from Sony, because i like taking pictures of my son, and the environment..
Are there any Camera app out there comparable to the Sony equivalent?

Oh, the urge..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I have the same urge, I wanna get the full output from my Xperia Z2, feel all those four cores working in my hand. But that one Sony Camera app stops me because it's beautiful. It's matchless. That's the only reason I'm not changing my ROM and be bound to what Sony's put in my phone.
 
Devzz

Devzz

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2012
215
30
I am in the same boat here! I want to flash PA so bad especially with all their features but then the camera app, the noise cancelling features and x-reality etc is really stopping me from doing so :(
 
V

V4LKyR

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2014
610
139
Envious_Data said:
just a note

formatting then writing a rom to your system slows your device ALOT, it also cause alot of other issues but that comes after long wear n tear
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Does this include doing a clean install? I mean doing clean install also slows the system? I've done clean install (re-install the stock Sony Z2 ROM) for 3 times till now. (Via Sony PC Companion)
 
Envious_Data

Envious_Data

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2012
4,866
2,279
Imagination
enviousmedia.design
V4LKyR said:
Does this include doing a clean install? I mean doing clean install also slows the system? I've done clean install (re-install the stock Sony Z2 ROM) for 3 times till now. (Via Sony PC Companion)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

included:
repair via sony pc companion
firmware upgrade
flashing custom rom
flashing ftf via flashtool
flashing via emma

all of those wear bout the same, its a matter of which one you do the most
in this case, flashing custom roms is this one
 
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V4LKyR

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2014
610
139
Envious_Data said:
included:
repair via sony pc companion
firmware upgrade
flashing custom rom
flashing ftf via flashtool
flashing via emma

all of those wear bout the same, its a matter of which one you do the most
in this case, flashing custom roms is this one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

But I've done clean install via Sony PC Companion for 3 times now... So does this mean my phone isn't as fast as the day I bought it? Even though I've installed a clean ROM?
 
Devzz

Devzz

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2012
215
30
Envious_Data said:
minor signs should show about 25th time to my experiance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I remember reading somewhere years ago that flashing new firmware over and over will eventually wear out the hardware and cause it to slow down/eventually fail. I can't seem to find anything for this when searching though! Would it be possible for you to shed some light on what I should be searching for or what causes this issue?

Thanks in advance!
 
Envious_Data

Envious_Data

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2012
4,866
2,279
Imagination
enviousmedia.design
Devzz said:
I remember reading somewhere years ago that flashing new firmware over and over will eventually wear out the hardware and cause it to slow down/eventually fail. I can't seem to find anything for this when searching though! Would it be possible for you to shed some light on what I should be searching for or what causes this issue?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

there is something called read/write cycle life
you can only write info so many times onto a disk before it wears out and stops working

formatting a partition takes a huge amount of cycles, installing roms does the same too because its alot of data that has to write

some info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory
 
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Devzz

Devzz

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2012
215
30
Envious_Data said:
there is something called read/write cycle life
you can only write info so many times onto a disk before it wears out and stops working

formatting a partition takes a huge amount of cycles, installing roms does the same too because its alot of data that has to write

some info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Cheers for the reply! From what I read on the link, it says most flash memory have a P/E cycle of around 100,000 and from what I can remember, it varies depending on the type/quality of the flash memory used (Nexus 7 2012 had rubbish flash memory which a lot of people complained about). Just going off an assumption that the Z2 has a P/E cycle of 100,000, wouldn't it take quite a lot of ROM flashes before the memory deteriorates? Or is it more due to the size of the data being written/erased than the amount of times it is being done?

Sorry for the questions, I know this isn't the thread for it but it is interesting to me! :D
 
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Ruku1994

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
80
41
Poland
Devzz said:
Cheers for the reply! From what I read on the link, it says most flash memory have a P/E cycle of around 100,000 and from what I can remember, it varies depending on the type/quality of the flash memory used (Nexus 7 2012 had rubbish flash memory which a lot of people complained about). Just going off an assumption that the Z2 has a P/E cycle of 100,000, wouldn't it take quite a lot of ROM flashes before the memory deteriorates? Or is it more due to the size of the data being written/erased than the amount of times it is being done?

Sorry for the questions, I know this isn't the thread for it but it is interesting to me! :D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I used to flash a lot roms everyday on various devices. I didn't notice any side effects of it. As I know a little about hardware there is nothing to fear. You can imagine than one memory cell is one bit of data. If it withstands 100 000 writes it literally means that you can save data (eg. flash rom on it) 100 000 times. There is no way that you can cross this number even with everyday flashing. And it doesn't matter how much data we are writing because each memory cell deteriorates individually, so if we write on 1000 cells it means that every cell will deteriorate only by one write operation which means every cell will still be able to be written 99 999 times.

Another thing is that the storage memory in smartphones is usually one chip which means that all your data including /system partition (which you overwrite during rom flashing) and your photos and music on /data are on one physical device. The conclusion is that if you are afraid of rom flashing and wiping you should also be afraid of saving photos to internal memory. And since we are using our int. memory and change files placed on it a lot it means that we can flash roms as we please without consequences.
 
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Devzz

Devzz

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2012
215
30
Ruku1994 said:
I used to flash a lot roms everyday on various devices. I didn't notice any side effects of it. As I know a little about hardware there is nothing to fear. You can imagine than one memory cell is one bit of data. If it withstands 100 000 writes it literally means that you can save data (eg. flash rom on it) 100 000 times. There is no way that you can cross this number even with everyday flashing. And it doesn't matter how much data we are writing because each memory cell deteriorates individually, so if we write on 1000 cells it means that every cell will deteriorate only by one write operation which means every cell will still be able to be written 99 999 times.

Another thing is that the storage memory in smartphones is usually one chip which means that all your data including /system partition (which you overwrite during rom flashing) and your photos and music on /data are on one physical device. The conclusion is that if you are afraid of rom flashing and wiping you should also be afraid of saving photos to internal memory. And since we are using our int. memory and change files placed on it a lot it means that we can flash roms as we please without consequences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Thanks for the thorough explanation. I had my suspicions this would be the case and you've driven it home by explaining the whole music/data/pictures scenario. I used to flash PA and other roms on my N4 more often than I care to count but I never once saw a decrease in performance so it's good to know (personally and for others) the phone's read/write performance is not going to be realistically affected! :highfive:
 
Devzz

Devzz

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2012
215
30
ghostofcain said:
I've flashed previous android devices ( HTC magic / Desire HD / SGS 3) 100+ times each with no obvious slow down, my albeit limited understanding was that NAND chips where rated for 100k+ P/E cycles?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Correct :) from the wiki link provided a few posts ago:

"Most commercially available flash products are guaranteed to withstand around 100,000 P/E cycles before the wear begins to deteriorate the integrity of the storage.[21] Micron Technology and Sun Microsystems announced an SLC NAND flash memory chip rated for 1,000,000 P/E cycles on 17 December 2008"
 
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    Ruku1994
    Devzz said:
    Cheers for the reply! From what I read on the link, it says most flash memory have a P/E cycle of around 100,000 and from what I can remember, it varies depending on the type/quality of the flash memory used (Nexus 7 2012 had rubbish flash memory which a lot of people complained about). Just going off an assumption that the Z2 has a P/E cycle of 100,000, wouldn't it take quite a lot of ROM flashes before the memory deteriorates? Or is it more due to the size of the data being written/erased than the amount of times it is being done?

    Sorry for the questions, I know this isn't the thread for it but it is interesting to me! :D
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    I used to flash a lot roms everyday on various devices. I didn't notice any side effects of it. As I know a little about hardware there is nothing to fear. You can imagine than one memory cell is one bit of data. If it withstands 100 000 writes it literally means that you can save data (eg. flash rom on it) 100 000 times. There is no way that you can cross this number even with everyday flashing. And it doesn't matter how much data we are writing because each memory cell deteriorates individually, so if we write on 1000 cells it means that every cell will deteriorate only by one write operation which means every cell will still be able to be written 99 999 times.

    Another thing is that the storage memory in smartphones is usually one chip which means that all your data including /system partition (which you overwrite during rom flashing) and your photos and music on /data are on one physical device. The conclusion is that if you are afraid of rom flashing and wiping you should also be afraid of saving photos to internal memory. And since we are using our int. memory and change files placed on it a lot it means that we can flash roms as we please without consequences.
    View
    1
    Envious_Data
    Envious_Data
    i use to be in the same boat before i noticed there is no point to flashing roms when im on a rom which does what i want

    perhaps you should find a rom which has what you want
    View
    1
    Envious_Data
    Envious_Data
    Devzz said:
    I remember reading somewhere years ago that flashing new firmware over and over will eventually wear out the hardware and cause it to slow down/eventually fail. I can't seem to find anything for this when searching though! Would it be possible for you to shed some light on what I should be searching for or what causes this issue?

    Thanks in advance!
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    there is something called read/write cycle life
    you can only write info so many times onto a disk before it wears out and stops working

    formatting a partition takes a huge amount of cycles, installing roms does the same too because its alot of data that has to write

    some info
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory
    View
    1
    Devzz
    Devzz
    Envious_Data said:
    there is something called read/write cycle life
    you can only write info so many times onto a disk before it wears out and stops working

    formatting a partition takes a huge amount of cycles, installing roms does the same too because its alot of data that has to write

    some info
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    Cheers for the reply! From what I read on the link, it says most flash memory have a P/E cycle of around 100,000 and from what I can remember, it varies depending on the type/quality of the flash memory used (Nexus 7 2012 had rubbish flash memory which a lot of people complained about). Just going off an assumption that the Z2 has a P/E cycle of 100,000, wouldn't it take quite a lot of ROM flashes before the memory deteriorates? Or is it more due to the size of the data being written/erased than the amount of times it is being done?

    Sorry for the questions, I know this isn't the thread for it but it is interesting to me! :D
    View
    1
    Devzz
    Devzz
    ghostofcain said:
    I've flashed previous android devices ( HTC magic / Desire HD / SGS 3) 100+ times each with no obvious slow down, my albeit limited understanding was that NAND chips where rated for 100k+ P/E cycles?
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    Correct :) from the wiki link provided a few posts ago:

    "Most commercially available flash products are guaranteed to withstand around 100,000 P/E cycles before the wear begins to deteriorate the integrity of the storage.[21] Micron Technology and Sun Microsystems announced an SLC NAND flash memory chip rated for 1,000,000 P/E cycles on 17 December 2008"
    View

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