All or nothing? Huh?

@rbiter · Mar 7, 2014

What is up with xda/mod community and locked bootloaders? Why are we letting OEM's like Samsung force feeding us enterprise security through consumer channels/devices instead of giving us choice? I was very upset tripping Knox disallowed encryption altogether. Not all of us need or want that. Many xda'ers are fairly savvy enough to do as we please with little repercussions. The ones that aren't don't read or don't Google. As a community we should voice our concerns that there should be separate markets/devices/firmware for consumer grade security and enterprise security. Actually I have no qualms with a low level Knox implementation to trip efuses to void warranty for modders. Fair enough without explanation. I want to encrypt my phone even with a tripped fuse. Force feeding Knox is lame and retards the beauty of open source. Knox grade security just doesn't make for an open source recipe anymore. I probably won't get an s5 but it is mainly because of knox and all the disadvantages that are tied into it whether we can cherry pick our security or not. Honestly, as much as I want Samsung and competitors to succeed financially and market share wise, the s5 really needs to fail. BAAAAD. Just so the message gets across to Samsung brass that when we void our warranties, not only do we want to own our phones but we should still be able to add a layer of security that otherwise isn't there because of Knox's all or nothing approach. Knox doesn't let us own our phones. It is an illusion when knox is tripped. The masses don't void their warranties in any way, including just basic root, so why exclude the very very valuable 5% that perpetuates the very nature of open source and furthers the development and customization that has made Android the juggernaut it is? I just don't understand. The masses don't even understand a sliver of what knox offers, not even including the small 5% that don't want it but can't avoid it. I truly hope our small community can put enough of a dent in s5 sales and future knoxified phones that Samsung will sit up and notice. A little HTC or Sony sideline contemplation of what we did wrong and what can we do to invite potentially loyal customers back would do Samsung a lot of good. SMDH. Thoughts?

Sent from my XT1053 using HoFo mobile app.

dandroid13 · Mar 8, 2014

Well, HTC has S-ON, LG has GATE, Sammy has Knox. We all know Android wasn't meant to be secure (?), and in the age of NSA and it's friends spying the world I guess people are looking at way to keep things safe. Of course the GS5 won't be a fail, probably will be another hit and is Android really that open as some people believe? Because Android without Google isn't true Android.

@rbiter · Mar 8, 2014

I know android isn't full throttle open. Nonetheless, secure android should be an option. Not shoveled in. Android has enough fragmentation. Knox and the equivalent just throws the open part out the window and hinders development and freedom. It really is bunk we can't encrypt if we trip knox. That just throws any illusion of security out the window. Like I said. All or nothing. No middle ground. Pure lame. I hope people vote with their wallets and make Samsung reconsider the faux security. I'd rather have no security than knox bulltihs. Software security will never be 100% secure and when there is a will there is a way. All it takes is any flaw and exploits galore are there for the taking.

Sent from my XT1053 using HoFo mobile app.

xeizo · Mar 8, 2014

@rbiter said:
I know android isn't full throttle open. Nonetheless, secure android should be an option. Not shoveled in. Android has enough fragmentation. Knox and the equivalent just throws the open part out the window and hinders development and freedom. It really is bunk we can't encrypt if we trip knox. That just throws any illusion of security out the window. Like I said. All or nothing. No middle ground. Pure lame. I hope people vote with their wallets and make Samsung reconsider the faux security. I'd rather have no security than know bulltihs. Software security will never be 100% secure and when there is a will there is a way. All it takes is any flaw and exploits galore are there for the taking.

Sent from my XT1053 using HoFo mobile app.

Samsung MUST have Knox or something similar to be able to sell their phones as Business Phones, otherwise that will be a sole market for Apple(who even thinks about Windows Phone?), so Knox it is. But the implementation could have been far better, that is true, but it has to be there anyway

Lets hope Samsung develops Knox to be more dev-friendly!

LyuboA · Mar 8, 2014

xeizo said:
Samsung MUST have Knox or something similar to be able to sell their phones as Business Phones, otherwise that will be a sole market for Apple(who even thinks about Windows Phone?), so Knox it is. But the implementation could have been far better, that is true, but it has to be there anyway

Lets hope Samsung develops Knox to be more dev-friendly!

i agree with you completely but they can easy make the phones with Knox and Non Knox bootloader-kernels-roms want secure or not we deserve at least to have a CHOISE FOR OUR MONEY dont you think that is so easy to make KIES option secure rom or not i love samsung devices but because of their NO CHOISE policy i will not get S5 i guess S4 will be the last Samsung device for me atleast until some one figure out how to rip knox out

Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

CLARiiON · Mar 8, 2014

I really don't understand why Samsung should even think 2 sec about few geeks who don't even make up 1% of potential sales?? In any case, geeks love to hate Samsung.

Here's something -- don't like it, don't buy it. You got Nexus, HTC, Moto, Sony and tons of other phones. Why keep whining about same exact issue 10x everyday? it's not like Samsung is your only choice.

Out of all polls done recently by all tech blogs, 80-90% of the voters didn't like/want S5. If I was a Samsung manager, I will simply think that you guys anyway don't want my phones. So, why the hell should I bother about 10% of geek population?? even if I lose those 10% geeks, it hardly makes any difference to my balance sheet.

Bottomline, Samsung (rightly) ignores anything on XDA/androidpolice/or any other tech blog. They are in a business to sell phones to common people and businesses. Whether 0.5% of population are pissed at them is totally irrelevant. if I want in Samsung sales guy, I won't ever thin about what guys say in XDA.

dandroid13 · Mar 8, 2014

CLARiiON said:
I really don't understand why Samsung should even think 2 sec about few geeks who don't even make up 1% of potential sales?? In any case, geeks love to hate Samsung.

Here's something -- don't like it, don't buy it. You got Nexus, HTC, Moto, Sony and tons of other phones. Why keep whining about same exact issue 10x everyday? it's not like Samsung is your only choice.

Out of all polls done recently by all tech blogs, 80-90% of the voters didn't like/want S5. If I was a Samsung manager, I will simply think that you guys anyway don't want my phones. So, why the hell should I bother about 10% of geek population?? even if I lose those 10% geeks, it hardly makes any difference to my balance sheet.

Bottomline, Samsung (rightly) ignores anything on XDA/androidpolice/or any other tech blog. They are in a business to sell phones to common people and businesses. Whether 0.5% of population are pissed at them is totally irrelevant. if I want in Samsung sales guy, I won't ever thin about what guys say in XDA.

+1 but there's also these "I was expecting innovation." comments like Samsung has a magic wand to bring the future to the present without any compromises to usability. I'll quote a comment I saw in Apple Insider.

Gotta love all the tech geeks disappointed because Samsung didn't release some fantasy phone with crazy specs. Perhaps they're finding out that incremental updates are the norm, not just reserved for Apple.

CLARiiON · Mar 8, 2014

dandroid13 said:
Gotta love all the tech geeks disappointed because Samsung didn't release some fantasy phone with crazy specs. Perhaps they're finding out that incremental updates are the norm, not just reserved for Apple.

That is some seriously solid statement, absolutely true. It's not like any of the competitor actually got a holographic display or a processor which doesn't suck battery.

And out of so many so-called *innovators*, Samsung got the best mobile device award in MWC 2014 (Gear Fit). I would say that's pretty good for a company that doesn't innovate.

For a *normal* person, upgrading from S2/S3 to S5 is a decent jump. Obviously, someone upgrading from S4 to S5 won't find much value, same goes for every other flagship.

Apple/Samsung are victims of hype-machine. Obviously they are also the best in milking this hype. And I say both of them have earned their spot in the top of food chain.

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All or nothing? Huh?

@rbiter

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dandroid13

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@rbiter

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xeizo

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LyuboA

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CLARiiON

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dandroid13

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CLARiiON

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