[Q] Ultrapixels

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knoxploration

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danw_oz

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Great pics in there Dan, you've been some amazingly photogenic places!

Cheers, yes I was prviledged to live in such beautiful places, it does help.

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 AM ----------

HTC marketing is getting ridiculously stupid, and HTC fanboys are following suit. The megapixel race is not a LIE. In bold, because HTc marketing material likes to make it bold. Megapixels is not the only factor in determining image quality, but it is an important one. But HTC wants you to believe it doesn't matter, AT ALL. So damn stupid. If it doesn't matter, then go reduce an image to a 32x32 icon. Beautiful isn't it! Looks exactly the same as the original! So stupid. HTC is just making a compromise between larger pixel sizes and resolution. The images will be worse in outdoor shots since it doesn't have as good a resolution, but indoor and low light shots will look better since it can gather more light. The question is, how much better? So far from what I can tell, the video and picture samples at the HTC event, which is indoors in low light, are not that impressive. It's definitely gonna be worse in bright outdoor use.

Agreed, it is almost as stupid as their campain I mentioned earlier, for the first HTC One "HTC One Versus DSLR Images, Can You Spot The Difference?" definately not as a 364x268 image, or on my full HD screen is almost a thumb nail ;).

I am also in agreeance with others here about how many megapixels needed for a phone. More megapixels only required for larger prints or cropping to make a print, and lets be honest, what do you use your phone camera for??? Posting on facebook or social media sites is mostly my guess? none of which even support display of 4Mp

How many times have you cropped a phone photo or printed it larger than A4 type size, I would suggest almost nobody. Typically if you required a crop a shot, you didn't have enough optical zoom on your camera ;), this is where a point and shoot shines over a phone.
 
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Riyal

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So seriously what is it xperia z camera or htc one camera specs wise

Sent From My Galaxy S3

If you ask me the both have their unique advantage and disadvantages.

If what HTC says is correct then HTC One should have better images while sacrificing details when zoomed in.

While the Xperia Z is the exact opposite.
 

RCJ89

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Oct 5, 2012
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Hello guys first of all may I just say I don't expect anyone to trust me especially without my own evidence (I would have had some if this crap bb didn't die on me while I was down oxford street).
However though after seeing those images vs the iphone btw I thought the images on the one were better than the iphone but inferior to the lumia 920. I decided to hunt the one down again to do some camera tests.

On tuesday on the launch of the one, i went to phones 4 u oxford street (bond street) played with the one for about 3 mins and decided it was better than the z, had better audio, camera/video which is the main things i use on the phone. however that was without side by side comparison.
after seeing the images online posted by the one, i was thinking to myself when i played with it the images looked better than that, so i headed down the whole of oxford street from tottenham court road to bond street in and out of carphone warehouse, three stores and phones 4 u and vodafone like a mad man. finally I went back to the phones 4 u that did the launch and as I walked in i saw they had the one on display however it is bolted down, with both cameras and headset jack covered, so i was disappointed as i though i wouldnt be able to do camera tests. Absolutely gutted i walked out and futher up the road to the three store (opposite selfriges).

walked in and saw they had a dummy of the black version of the one, i asked the staff to they have the real phone one said the rep came earlier and will be back tomorrow about 9am, i thought damn man then one of the staff said hold on ill check if we have the demo phone in the back. She said by the way it is a pre production unit and not final retail unit, anyway she went in the back and came back an there in her hand was a silver one, totally deprived of any restrictions what so ever, so i got a feel of the phone its far better to hold in the hand than the z due to it being smooth (the egdes of the z are rough), also feels and looks smaller than it is and it looks thinner than 9.3mm aswell.
I know audio is better than the z so i got straight to work in comparing front and rear cameras on both phones side by side. I got the staff in the three store to judge which has the better camera aswell.

these are our findings and truthful findings. z was on superior auto setting and one was on its normal auto focus setting i didn't tamper with anything else.
sharpness, colour accuracy (more natural colours), auto focusing and camera speed all favoured the one not to say the camera on the z is rubbish but The z tended to lose focus on objects (same issues that plagued the xperia s/t last year that annoyed me so much) and also letters looked more blurry on the z (i got one of the booklets and was focusing on the letters, the one was far sharper than the z and even just on general objects the one had the sharper camera.
Video (both phones were in 1080p mode on auto focus setting) again was the same story the z was struggling to focus at times, while the one always maintained focus and showed the sharper image and better colour accuracy also better audio aswell.

Even the front camera had clearer more detailed images and videos than the xperia zs front camera, also i tried zooming on the rear camera of the one again it showed more detail on zoom than any other phone I have seen bar the Nokia N8, 808, Lumia 920.
Personally in my opinion and the guys in the three store the camera on the HTC one is remarkable the staff in the three store didn't even know the one only had a 4mp camera they thought it was 13mp it was so good.
This is one of the reasons I rather go hands on with things myself than look on the internet or at reviews and I am urging people to do the same.
You will be surprised about this ultra pixel 4mp camera thing today really showed me and the three staff that its really not all about the megapixels because the ones 4.3mp camera was overall better than the xperia z's 13.1mp camera.
 

danw_oz

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Jul 12, 2011
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Sony Xperia Z5
Hello guys first of all may I just say I don't expect anyone to trust me especially without my own evidence (I would have had some if this crap bb didn't die on me while I was down oxford street).
However though after seeing those images vs the iphone btw I thought the images on the one were better than the iphone but inferior to the lumia 920. I decided to hunt the one down again to do some camera tests.

On tuesday on the launch of the one, i went to phones 4 u oxford street (bond street) played with the one for about 3 mins and decided it was better than the z, had better audio, camera/video which is the main things i use on the phone. however that was without side by side comparison.
after seeing the images online posted by the one, i was thinking to myself when i played with it the images looked better than that, so i headed down the whole of oxford street from tottenham court road to bond street in and out of carphone warehouse, three stores and phones 4 u and vodafone like a mad man. finally I went back to the phones 4 u that did the launch and as I walked in i saw they had the one on display however it is bolted down, with both cameras and headset jack covered, so i was disappointed as i though i wouldnt be able to do camera tests. Absolutely gutted i walked out and futher up the road to the three store (opposite selfriges).

walked in and saw they had a dummy of the black version of the one, i asked the staff to they have the real phone one said the rep came earlier and will be back tomorrow about 9am, i thought damn man then one of the staff said hold on ill check if we have the demo phone in the back. She said by the way it is a pre production unit and not final retail unit, anyway she went in the back and came back an there in her hand was a silver one, totally deprived of any restrictions what so ever, so i got a feel of the phone its far better to hold in the hand than the z due to it being smooth (the egdes of the z are rough), also feels and looks smaller than it is and it looks thinner than 9.3mm aswell.
I know audio is better than the z so i got straight to work in comparing front and rear cameras on both phones side by side. I got the staff in the three store to judge which has the better camera aswell.

these are our findings and truthful findings. z was on superior auto setting and one was on its normal auto focus setting i didn't tamper with anything else.
sharpness, colour accuracy (more natural colours), auto focusing and camera speed all favoured the one not to say the camera on the z is rubbish but The z tended to lose focus on objects (same issues that plagued the xperia s/t last year that annoyed me so much) and also letters looked more blurry on the z (i got one of the booklets and was focusing on the letters, the one was far sharper than the z and even just on general objects the one had the sharper camera.
Video (both phones were in 1080p mode on auto focus setting) again was the same story the z was struggling to focus at times, while the one always maintained focus and showed the sharper image and better colour accuracy also better audio aswell.

Even the front camera had clearer more detailed images and videos than the xperia zs front camera, also i tried zooming on the rear camera of the one again it showed more detail on zoom than any other phone I have seen bar the Nokia N8, 808, Lumia 920.
Personally in my opinion and the guys in the three store the camera on the HTC one is remarkable the staff in the three store didn't even know the one only had a 4mp camera they thought it was 13mp it was so good.
This is one of the reasons I rather go hands on with things myself than look on the internet or at reviews and I am urging people to do the same.
You will be surprised about this ultra pixel 4mp camera thing today really showed me and the three staff that its really not all about the megapixels because the ones 4.3mp camera was overall better than the xperia z's 13.1mp camera.

So what are you referring too, shot displayed on the phone screen, or on a computer, because looking at these on a phone screen will not tell you anything.

I would agree with your comment about colour accuracy, and I would say that out of all phones I have seen it is very good.

I believe Sony's problem so far is software for the image processing, its too aggressive for noise reduction
 

RCJ89

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Oct 5, 2012
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london, UK
Well seeing as it was in the shop. It was each phones screen I had to look at and the htc was showing sharper images with more natural looking colours
 
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Riyal

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Dec 16, 2011
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Iloilo City
Well seeing as it was in the shop. It was each phones screen I had to look at and the htc was showing sharper images with more natural looking colours

Hmmm don't you think it could also be because of the screen instead of the camera? Since obviously the Z was rumored to have an average screen and lesser than the ones used by HTC.

I'm not defending sony in any way but they are already a professional when it comes to optics manufacturing.

Anyways if it is indeed true then great! Can't wait till march 15 already preordered on clove.
 

RCJ89

Senior Member
Oct 5, 2012
903
245
london, UK
Hmmm don't you think it could also be because of the screen instead of the camera? Since obviously the Z was rumored to have an average screen and lesser than the ones used by HTC.

I'm not defending sony in any way but they are already a professional when it comes to optics manufacturing.

Anyways if it is indeed true then great! Can't wait till march 15 already preordered on clove.

Was defo not the screen becuase the iphone 5 also had slightly sharper looking images than the Z aswell (only slightly) also the screen on the Z is a fantastic screen imo.
To tell the truth I have always measured images by what I see on the screen on the phone then compared them on the laptop. For example last year I done galaxy s3 vs xperia t vs one x camera samples on my latop and the samples produced by the one x were better than the other two imo. it was the same story when I looked at the pics on each phone aswell.
 

cold22

Member
Jan 9, 2012
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Isn't HTC misleading the consumer by using the term 4 Ultrapixel but in fact it 4 Megapixel? or to be more correct shouldn't it be market as 4 Megapixel F2.0?
 

knoxploration

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Apr 23, 2011
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Frankly speaking, yes, they are. Why they're doing it is understandable, but the decision to use the term pixel is ill-advised.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk HD
 

TramainM

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Dec 30, 2011
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Shasarak

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Aug 7, 2009
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Isn't HTC misleading the consumer by using the term 4 Ultrapixel but in fact it 4 Megapixel? or to be more correct shouldn't it be market as 4 Megapixel F2.0?
Well, it's a marketing term, clearly; what they're trying to do is to get across the fact that one of their megapixels isn't the same as one of someone else's megapixels. :)

It's not just that the aperture is larger (although it is) it's also that the physical pixel on the sensor is larger. Compared to a 13MP sensor, each pixel is more than three times the area, which means it collects more light. Combined with the larger aperture, that means the picture is much less noisy at the same light level - or achieves the same level of noise with much less light.
 

knoxploration

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Apr 23, 2011
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Well, it's a marketing term, clearly; what they're trying to do is to get across the fact that one of their megapixels isn't the same as one of someone else's megapixels. :)

Which is a bit disingenuous. Their megapixels are just the same as anybody else's megapixels. They're not making their own sensors and there's no unique tech behind it; they''re just buying an off-the-shelf sensor.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk HD
 

Riyal

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Which is a bit disingenuous. Their megapixels are just the same as anybody else's megapixels. They're not making their own sensors and there's no unique tech behind it; they''re just buying an off-the-shelf sensor.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk HD

It's not a off the shelf sensor. I agree with them that it is indeed a special sensor they are using. The only issue with the technology they implemented is yes it is unique and is on the right path but is not enough to compete with the 2013 cameras.
 

knoxploration

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Apr 23, 2011
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It's not a off the shelf sensor.

Want to put some money on that? What expertise does HTC have in sensor design and fabbing?

They are almost certainly buying it in.

I agree with them that it is indeed a special sensor they are using. The only issue with the technology they implemented is yes it is unique and is on the right path but is not enough to compete with the 2013 cameras.

Please, enlighten us. What is "special" or "unique"?

It's not the first 2um pixel. We've seen those before.

It's not the first 2um pixel in a phone. We've seen those before, too. (And larger.)

It's not a newly-developed technology. (It's a standard backside-illuminated CMOS sensor, just with fewer and larger pixels than are *currently* common.)

It is, essentially, the same technology everybody else is using, but with the pixel sizes and pixel counts everybody was using a few years ago.

That's not unique, or even close to it. Unusual or different, yes. Better, arguably it could be for some important metrics; it will without question be worse for other important metrics. (It's a trade-off, like most things in life.) But it's not unique.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk HD
 

Riyal

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Dec 16, 2011
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Iloilo City
Want to put some money on that? What expertise does HTC have in sensor design and fabbing?

They are almost certainly buying it in.



Please, enlighten us. What is "special" or "unique"?

It's not the first 2um pixel. We've seen those before.

It's not the first 2um pixel in a phone. We've seen those before, too. (And larger.)

It's not a newly-developed technology. (It's a standard backside-illuminated CMOS sensor, just with fewer and larger pixels than are *currently* common.)

It is, essentially, the same technology everybody else is using, but with the pixel sizes and pixel counts everybody was using a few years ago.

That's not unique, or even close to it. Unusual or different, yes. Better, arguably it could be for some important metrics; it will without question be worse for other important metrics. (It's a trade-off, like most things in life.) But it's not unique.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk HD

Right now I can't prove that I am just basing facts on HTC's statements. And I doubt they would lie we are not living in an age where people are ignorant yet on technology and I am sure HTC would be aware of the ever increasing techy people doing the reviews on blogs. And that is a big let down on their marketing if ever they are telling lies. Hence let's wait for the kernel source to look up what are they really using.
 

superchilpil

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Sep 26, 2009
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Want to put some money on that? What expertise does HTC have in sensor design and fabbing?

They are almost certainly buying it in.



Please, enlighten us. What is "special" or "unique"?

It's not the first 2um pixel. We've seen those before.

It's not the first 2um pixel in a phone. We've seen those before, too. (And larger.)

It's not a newly-developed technology. (It's a standard backside-illuminated CMOS sensor, just with fewer and larger pixels than are *currently* common.)

It is, essentially, the same technology everybody else is using, but with the pixel sizes and pixel counts everybody was using a few years ago.

That's not unique, or even close to it. Unusual or different, yes. Better, arguably it could be for some important metrics; it will without question be worse for other important metrics. (It's a trade-off, like most things in life.) But it's not unique.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk HD

I'm not disagreeing but can you give an example of a phone with a similar or larger pixel?



Slithered from my HTC One X+
 

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    HTC marketing is getting ridiculously stupid, and HTC fanboys are following suit. The megapixel race is not a LIE. In bold, because HTc marketing material likes to make it bold. Megapixels is not the only factor in determining image quality, but it is an important one. But HTC wants you to believe it doesn't matter, AT ALL. So damn stupid. If it doesn't matter, then go reduce an image to a 32x32 icon. Beautiful isn't it! Looks exactly the same as the original! So stupid. HTC is just making a compromise between larger pixel sizes and resolution. The images will be worse in outdoor shots since it doesn't have as good a resolution, but indoor and low light shots will look better since it can gather more light. The question is, how much better? So far from what I can tell, the video and picture samples at the HTC event, which is indoors in low light, are not that impressive. It's definitely gonna be worse in bright outdoor use.
    Well, how many megapixels do you think you need?

    To answer that question, think about what you're viewing the picture on. A PC monitor? What's the resolution of that? Unlikely to be much higher than 2560x1440; that's 3.6MP - any more than that and the extra detail is wasted.

    Or maybe you're thinking of printing the photo? 300 dots per inch is plenty of resolution for a colour photo. So, to produce a 7" by 5" print, you only need about 3MP in the image. Even if you want to print out a picture filling an A4 page, you still only need around 8 or 9MP. Are you really going to be printing out your photos larger than an A4 page? And if you are, are you going to be viewing them from less than 12 inches away? (If the viewing distance is greater than that, you don't need 300dpi).

    What's more, adding additional MP isn't free. The smaller the pixels get, the more the detector suffers from noise (and removing the noise from the image means you effectively lose the extra resolution), and the more the low-light performance suffers.

    And finally, with the kind of aperture sizes and the quality of the lenses you're dealing with, you're unlikely to be able to resolve anywhere near 8MP worth of real detail anyway.

    The camera on the HTC One isn't exactly revolutionary, but I think HTC should be congratulated for a move in the right direction: away from a design whose sole purpose is to include a big number for marketing purposes, and towards actually producing a better quality image.
    5
    It means that the pixel is as huge as dSLR pixel.

    This means that the quality of the camera pixel is like dSLR although its lower resolution.

    Its like you use 10MP Canon dSLR but crop it in the middle. It is that awesome. Probably the best camera ever in smartfone. Will kill off every competitiors. Nokia Pureview also lose to dSLR camera in HTC ONE.

    Do you even know what a digital SLR is? the HTC phone camera is not a DSLR, nor will it every compare to one, a larger sensor and 14bit colour depth this is what really sets any DSLR from any point and shoot or phone camera.

    The 2-micron pixel width in this phone???, my DSLR is over twice this 4.3-micron pixel pitch.

    The proof of the quality will obviously come, but prelim reviews state that it is not as good as the Nokia.

    HTC already tried this once with the HTC One, with their most stupid marketing. "HTC One Versus DSLR Images, Can You Spot The Difference?". I wrote to them and told them how stupid this marketing was. 364x268 (0.1 megapixel) photos were the comparison, so I sent them sample photo's from my Nokia N70, Blackberry 8900, HTC Desire and my 4Mp Canon G3 point and shoot. Reduced them in size to 364x268 and challenged them to tell the difference between any of them. They very quickly removed this challege from their website about 6 hours afterwards.

    Don't get me wrong I am sure this camera is stunning, but it's no DLSR in terms of quality and neither is any point and shoot on the Market. Just the same as ANY cropped DLSR will compete with a full frame DSLR.
    2
    Hello guys first of all may I just say I don't expect anyone to trust me especially without my own evidence (I would have had some if this crap bb didn't die on me while I was down oxford street).
    However though after seeing those images vs the iphone btw I thought the images on the one were better than the iphone but inferior to the lumia 920. I decided to hunt the one down again to do some camera tests.

    On tuesday on the launch of the one, i went to phones 4 u oxford street (bond street) played with the one for about 3 mins and decided it was better than the z, had better audio, camera/video which is the main things i use on the phone. however that was without side by side comparison.
    after seeing the images online posted by the one, i was thinking to myself when i played with it the images looked better than that, so i headed down the whole of oxford street from tottenham court road to bond street in and out of carphone warehouse, three stores and phones 4 u and vodafone like a mad man. finally I went back to the phones 4 u that did the launch and as I walked in i saw they had the one on display however it is bolted down, with both cameras and headset jack covered, so i was disappointed as i though i wouldnt be able to do camera tests. Absolutely gutted i walked out and futher up the road to the three store (opposite selfriges).

    walked in and saw they had a dummy of the black version of the one, i asked the staff to they have the real phone one said the rep came earlier and will be back tomorrow about 9am, i thought damn man then one of the staff said hold on ill check if we have the demo phone in the back. She said by the way it is a pre production unit and not final retail unit, anyway she went in the back and came back an there in her hand was a silver one, totally deprived of any restrictions what so ever, so i got a feel of the phone its far better to hold in the hand than the z due to it being smooth (the egdes of the z are rough), also feels and looks smaller than it is and it looks thinner than 9.3mm aswell.
    I know audio is better than the z so i got straight to work in comparing front and rear cameras on both phones side by side. I got the staff in the three store to judge which has the better camera aswell.

    these are our findings and truthful findings. z was on superior auto setting and one was on its normal auto focus setting i didn't tamper with anything else.
    sharpness, colour accuracy (more natural colours), auto focusing and camera speed all favoured the one not to say the camera on the z is rubbish but The z tended to lose focus on objects (same issues that plagued the xperia s/t last year that annoyed me so much) and also letters looked more blurry on the z (i got one of the booklets and was focusing on the letters, the one was far sharper than the z and even just on general objects the one had the sharper camera.
    Video (both phones were in 1080p mode on auto focus setting) again was the same story the z was struggling to focus at times, while the one always maintained focus and showed the sharper image and better colour accuracy also better audio aswell.

    Even the front camera had clearer more detailed images and videos than the xperia zs front camera, also i tried zooming on the rear camera of the one again it showed more detail on zoom than any other phone I have seen bar the Nokia N8, 808, Lumia 920.
    Personally in my opinion and the guys in the three store the camera on the HTC one is remarkable the staff in the three store didn't even know the one only had a 4mp camera they thought it was 13mp it was so good.
    This is one of the reasons I rather go hands on with things myself than look on the internet or at reviews and I am urging people to do the same.
    You will be surprised about this ultra pixel 4mp camera thing today really showed me and the three staff that its really not all about the megapixels because the ones 4.3mp camera was overall better than the xperia z's 13.1mp camera.
    2
    I agree with what HTC says
    More megapixels crammed into a sensor of the same size, ie 8, 13 mp in a sensor of the same size, will make the pixels themselves smaller. Less light is captured, more noise produced.
    Reduce the amount of pixels and suddenly there are bigger pixels and more light can be captured. I think it will be good for the camera, as a cropped 2mp picture from a DSLR is waaaaay better than a 8mp picture from my incredible s or a one x.
    Think of a wire grid fence, if you have more wires there will be more holes, but less light will be able to come through
    Dunno how they will market it though. Makes it seem like the old nokias with 2mp cam are the best lol
    2
    Well the 4mp nothing at all
    Even got 41mp also useless if don't have good camera lens
    MP just the image resolution only

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium

    http://s1297.beta.photobucket.com/user/ivicask/media/HTC_ONE_NEXUS_4_COMPARE_zps973ef748.jpg.html

    I made compare HTC ONE 4.3M cam and Nexus 8M,
    as you can see in this zoomed in picture in Nexus does have more pixels, but HTC ONE has more details and colors.

    Here is full original image taken from ONE S

    http://mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/IMAG0031.jpg

    Also Camera sample

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ez_HaOhtxnA

    So in short, best phone camera so far if you ask me!