First Impressions

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Trig0r

Senior Member
Jun 19, 2007
741
94
Indeed, if you know exactly what you want and know that the RT will fill the gap, with the price drops and 8.1 the RT becomes a very good unit, I used mine all the time at home and more at work once 8.1 was on and I had outlook, with 8 its not "as" good but still not a bad device, however if you are a bit unsure as to what you want then there are literally hundreds of Android tablets to use that come in easier to swallow price brackets.
 

SixSixSevenSeven

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2012
1,617
318
Indeed, if you know exactly what you want and know that the RT will fill the gap, with the price drops and 8.1 the RT becomes a very good unit, I used mine all the time at home and more at work once 8.1 was on and I had outlook, with 8 its not "as" good but still not a bad device, however if you are a bit unsure as to what you want then there are literally hundreds of Android tablets to use that come in easier to swallow price brackets.

I'd argue its better with 8.0 as you can run the jailbreak for unsigned code, but hopefully that will come onto 8.1 eventually.
 

Trig0r

Senior Member
Jun 19, 2007
741
94
Yeah, depends what you want to use it for I guess.
If you know what you want and what the devices limitations are then its good...
 

jimlivingston

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2007
86
6
Hated but now Loved

Full disclosure, I was a Tech with Microsoft before, during, and after the Windows 8 and Surface releases. As such, my Surface RT was free to me. Even so, I hated it. I hated Windows 8. Still do, the latter. But, I found a new love for my RT. Not too long ago I left Microsoft for a better position. This new job requires a fair amount of world travel. Recently I was sent overseas for over a week. I decided to update and bring the RT with me. I ended up using it each and every day; primarily to Skype back home and see my wife and children. I took it with me everywhere. Folding it out and being able to chat by typing while sitting at a bistro table was really nice. Even in the hotel lounge, most business travelers were using iPads, and many of them kept looking over at meas I typed away. A few of them even approached me and had a look of envy on them. Along with Skype I was able to work of project reports and send critical emails. Perhaps my hatred for it stemmed from the fact I had no real use for it. But now I do. Oh yea, one of the better features was on the airplane. Instead of throwing my laptop bag under the seat in front of me (for easy access to my company laptop), which cut out needed leg room, I tossed it in an overhead bin and just kept my RT with me, like a book. I watched 3 feature length films back-to-back-to-back while in the air and still had almost 50% of my battery life left. That gave me plenty of juice to catch up some Walking Dead Comics.

So yea, the RT has found a loving home in the same home it was originally despised. Looking forward to the Surface 2!
 

Cuppeerr

Senior Member
Mar 15, 2010
2,916
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Grapevine, Texas
I got my surface a little less than a week ago and I LOVE it. it's taken me a couple days to get used to the touch keyboard and the no full desktop thing but man this is a nice device. Also the battery life is KILLER. and I love the multitasking on it. I wanna see what the surface 2 is like but I primarily got this one because I knew the battery life was amazing. Idk how good the battery life in the surface 2 will be considering it might have a 1080p screen. But plain and simple I love this device.
 
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Trig0r

Senior Member
Jun 19, 2007
741
94
Not long until the announcements, just in time for my birthday lol..

I want Haswell, 8Gb RAM and 256Gb SSD..
Anything more than that is a bonus...
 

dmcgrath009

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2010
313
42
D.C.
Just got the 32gig surface RT for my wife to use for school. I absolutely love the form factor of this tablet and its Microsoft office functionality. Other than that it really is frustrating there is virtually nothing available for it..... this thing is fluid smooth and easy to use but Lack of programs is going to be a big downfall.
 

SixSixSevenSeven

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2012
1,617
318
Not long until the announcements, just in time for my birthday lol..

I want Haswell, 8Gb RAM and 256Gb SSD..
Anything more than that is a bonus...

did haswell, 8gb of ram and upto 512gb ssd satisfy you? Along with a new cover with a battery in it for even longer life and backlit keyboards. Guess with you having a keyboard already though that it the news ones wouldn't matter so much, new ones do supposedly work on the existing surfaces with the exception of the keyboard with a battery not being able to charge the RT.
 

Trig0r

Senior Member
Jun 19, 2007
741
94
Oh hell yeah, bigger SSD more RAM, Haswell, have already been given the Ok to pre-order one :D

Keyboard wise I'll need to order one anyway as my existing unit will go as a whole to my tech support guy, then my old RT that he has will be up for grabs to someone else in the business...
Probably looking at 8Gb/256Gb/Keyboard/Dock..

Not sure about the annoucement re the battery though, they say "Battery: 75 percent more than Surface Pro." not up to, so does that include the Touch Power cover, life or what, its rather vague...
 

Osprey00

Senior Member
Jul 21, 2009
449
212
Not sure about the annoucement re the battery though, they say "Battery: 75 percent more than Surface Pro." not up to, so does that include the Touch Power cover, life or what, its rather vague...

Just on its own (with no Power Cover), the Surface Pro 2's battery life is 75% longer than the Surface Pro's. Most of that seems to be from Haswell, but I'm also reading of a supposedly bigger battery. With the Power Cover, the battery life on the Pro 2 is 2.5x that of the Pro (on its own, though it seems that you can use the Power Cover with it, too). 2.5x is 150% longer battery life (I'm not sure why MS is mixing their language), so the Power Cover seems to provide about as much extra battery life as the improvements in the Pro 2 do. For example, if you got 4 hours on the Pro, you'd get 7 hours on the Pro 2 and 10 hours on the Pro 2 with the Power Cover.
 
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SixSixSevenSeven

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Dec 26, 2012
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Just on its own (with no Power Cover), the Surface Pro 2's battery life is 75% longer than the Surface Pro's. Most of that seems to be from Haswell, but I'm also reading of a supposedly bigger battery. With the Power Cover, the battery life on the Pro 2 is 2.5x that of the Pro (on its own, though it seems that you can use the Power Cover with it, too). 2.5x is 150% longer battery life (I'm not sure why MS is mixing their language), so the Power Cover seems to provide about as much extra battery life as the improvements in the Pro 2 do. For example, if you got 4 hours on the Pro, you'd get 7 hours on the Pro 2 and 10 hours on the Pro 2 with the Power Cover.

Microsoft confirmed that the surface pro 2 uses the same battery as the original. They gave a full interview on where the changes come from (more efficient choice of regulators, many corners that were cut for cost reasons in the first gen being done properly in 2nd gen, changes to the DDR chips in use etc etc).
 

Trig0r

Senior Member
Jun 19, 2007
741
94
Microsoft confirmed that the surface pro 2 uses the same battery as the original. They gave a full interview on where the changes come from (more efficient choice of regulators, many corners that were cut for cost reasons in the first gen being done properly in 2nd gen, changes to the DDR chips in use etc etc).

That's a hell of a lot of cut corners surely...
 

Osprey00

Senior Member
Jul 21, 2009
449
212
That's a hell of a lot of cut corners surely...

Haswell chips, alone, offer up to 50% longer battery life, so that's most of the difference right there. The other little improvements that Microsoft did, all combined, probably account for "only" a 25-35% improvement. I guess that that's still a lot, but my point is just that that's not where most of the 75% improvement comes from.
 

Trig0r

Senior Member
Jun 19, 2007
741
94
Haswell chips, alone, offer up to 50% longer battery life, so that's most of the difference right there. The other little improvements that Microsoft did, all combined, probably account for "only" a 25-35% improvement. I guess that that's still a lot, but my point is just that that's not where most of the 75% improvement comes from.

As long as it runs cooler and quieter i'm not that bothered about battery tbh, I sit here in bed now, chargers next to me if I need it, when I use it at work its plugged in, its more the ram and storage that I'm after as the extra ram means I can run my vm's and the storage means being able to store those vm's and ISO's etc.

I'm still not convinced by 75%, maybe with the type power cover then yeah I could believe that, but on its own, with the same battery, it just doesn't add up, they couldn't of cut that many corners...
Checkout the CPU's directly from Intel site, i5-3317u vs i5-4200u...
http://ark.intel.com/compare/75459,65707

Figures dont add up...
 
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Osprey00

Senior Member
Jul 21, 2009
449
212
I'm still not convinced by 75%, maybe with the type power cover then yeah I could believe that, but on its own, with the same battery, it just doesn't add up, they couldn't of cut that many corners...
Checkout the CPU's directly from Intel site, i5-3317u vs i5-4200u...
http://ark.intel.com/compare/75459,65707

Figures dont add up...

I hear you. On the Wikipedia page for the Haswell architecture, there's a comparison between it and the Ivy Bridge architecture (which is in the original Surface Pro) and the improvements seem quite modest. It notes that "total performance improvement on average is about 3%" and it even draws more power and runs hotter than Ivy Bridge (which ought to decrease battery life). So, that's a bit confusing, but my guess is that those latter points apply more to the desktop version than to the mobile version.

There must be something else going on, and it might be explained by this line: "The Haswell architecture is specifically designed to optimize the power savings and performance benefits from the move to FinFET transistors on the improved 22 nm process node." Ivy Bridge, it turns out, was their very first architecture to use these new transistors, so perhaps it was very poorly optimized for battery life and this is the rectifying of that. It's not uncommon for 2nd-gen implementations to be radically improved over the 1st-gens, after all. We'll have to see. Still, well before the Microsoft event, the community was speculating that the successor to the Surface Pro would increase battery life at least a couple of hours, thanks to Haswell, so Microsoft's "75% improvement" claim isn't really that out there or that surprising to most.
 
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SixSixSevenSeven

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2012
1,617
318
I'm still not convinced by 75%, maybe with the type power cover then yeah I could believe that, but on its own, with the same battery, it just doesn't add up, they couldn't of cut that many corners...

Neither am I. I'm pretty sure I saw a different tech blog only state a 40% difference, which is more reasonable. Guess we'll just have to see what its like when people get their hands on it, any improvement is still a good thing at least.
 

Trig0r

Senior Member
Jun 19, 2007
741
94
Neither am I. I'm pretty sure I saw a different tech blog only state a 40% difference, which is more reasonable. Guess we'll just have to see what its like when people get their hands on it, any improvement is still a good thing at least.

40% unit on its own and 75% with the Power Cover would make more sense but even then 40% seems high still to me...

The other question is why have they taken a page out of Apples pricing book, the Pro2 8/256 is £1039, 8/512 is £1439, £400 for an extra 256Gb!! If you look at the price of the 4/128 and 8/256 though seems like a nice price gap there, £799/£1039 for double the RAM/Storage, that I can live with..
Had the CTO here compare it to his MBA, he paid £1500 for 8/512/i7 and he gets a keyboard :lol:
Had a quick look on the ark.intel site again and looked at the mobile i7 parts on the back end of that, not sure what the point of them is tbh, still 2 core with HT so dont see the point at all so i5 looks like it was a decent choice compared to the i7, over the i3 I dont know, SDP is low on the i3's but theres no Turbo..
http://ark.intel.com/compare/76609,76608,75988,75114,76618,75460,75112,76616,75459
 

Trig0r

Senior Member
Jun 19, 2007
741
94
Well the price for the dock has now been put on the UK site at least, £164.99....
Bit more than I would of expected for a dock, but given the price they want for keyboards not entirely suprising..
No price on the Power Cover though, given the normal Type 2 Cover is £109.99 I cant see you getting much change from £150 if any, although I cant see them charging the same or more than the dock though.
Think the specs on it are a copy and paste from the Type 2 Cover though as it appears to weigh the same despite being 4mm thicker and having a battery in it, which presumably is where the bulk of the battery boost comes from, perhaps ~35% comes from the move to Haswell and other internal changes and then the other ~40% comes from the Power Cover to give the boost some places are printing..

Think I'm going to get the Pro2 8Gb/256Gb, Dock and then a Type 2 Cover, if I dont like it then I'll get rid of it with the Pro I have now and then just use my existing Touch Cover, fair to say at this point that the power cover isnt of any use to me, especially at its estimated cost..
 

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  • 5
    Hated but now Loved

    Full disclosure, I was a Tech with Microsoft before, during, and after the Windows 8 and Surface releases. As such, my Surface RT was free to me. Even so, I hated it. I hated Windows 8. Still do, the latter. But, I found a new love for my RT. Not too long ago I left Microsoft for a better position. This new job requires a fair amount of world travel. Recently I was sent overseas for over a week. I decided to update and bring the RT with me. I ended up using it each and every day; primarily to Skype back home and see my wife and children. I took it with me everywhere. Folding it out and being able to chat by typing while sitting at a bistro table was really nice. Even in the hotel lounge, most business travelers were using iPads, and many of them kept looking over at meas I typed away. A few of them even approached me and had a look of envy on them. Along with Skype I was able to work of project reports and send critical emails. Perhaps my hatred for it stemmed from the fact I had no real use for it. But now I do. Oh yea, one of the better features was on the airplane. Instead of throwing my laptop bag under the seat in front of me (for easy access to my company laptop), which cut out needed leg room, I tossed it in an overhead bin and just kept my RT with me, like a book. I watched 3 feature length films back-to-back-to-back while in the air and still had almost 50% of my battery life left. That gave me plenty of juice to catch up some Walking Dead Comics.

    So yea, the RT has found a loving home in the same home it was originally despised. Looking forward to the Surface 2!
    4
    When I first saw the commercials for the Surface RT I was curious.
    But then I watched some youtube reviews that were picking it apart and my friend dogged it as well, saying they had all sorts of problems, etc.

    So then I got me a 10" Lenovo with Android. Used it for a month or so but was still FRUSTRATED by the handicapped Android system that after 4 or so years still does not truly multi task or split screen, etc.
    Much of what I do is facebook and watch/listen to some shows on youtube.
    It sucked that you couldn't tab back to facebook or whatever and keep youtube alive. (My Samsung S4 has the Samsung work around, but still).

    Anyway I took another look at the surface. Watched some more videos and I noticed that when I read the comments for these reviews, including the one on Forbes that bashed the Surface RT, the people were calling out the people giving the reviews for being extremely biased and not even demonstrating what the Surface RT was even capable of.

    So I went and bought one and that was when Microsoft dropped the price to $349

    I gotta say, I use this thing all the time. Even at home I find myself sitting on the couch with it instead of going to my high end PC more most of my everyday needs.

    And on the RT, aside from not being able to run Intel processor based applications the layout is the same and I love that.
    Also if you dig into it you can find lots of the desktop settings and whatnot.
    I made shortcuts on my desktop screen that goes to the C drive, SDCARD, and other areas I frequent rather than using the shortcuts in the start screen.

    Remote desktop is sweet. I can log into my Win7 PC from work and run access files, programs, etc away from home.

    And even the RT supports the XBOX controller and plays some decent games too.

    There are less APPS but many of the apps NEEDED for an android or iPad are not needed in the Surface RT when it has a full browser.

    Android is like Windows 3.1 compared to the RT. It's just that much better. :)


    Oh yeah. When I tried to show my Android fan boy friend that I got one, that he was a liar about the device, he wont even look a the device! LOL! He's that disgruntled about me getting one and informing him how refreshing it is after being stuck with a handicapped Android. (I have many Android devices, but they are more limited).
    1
    I got my surface a little less than a week ago and I LOVE it. it's taken me a couple days to get used to the touch keyboard and the no full desktop thing but man this is a nice device. Also the battery life is KILLER. and I love the multitasking on it. I wanna see what the surface 2 is like but I primarily got this one because I knew the battery life was amazing. Idk how good the battery life in the surface 2 will be considering it might have a 1080p screen. But plain and simple I love this device.
    1
    Not sure about the annoucement re the battery though, they say "Battery: 75 percent more than Surface Pro." not up to, so does that include the Touch Power cover, life or what, its rather vague...

    Just on its own (with no Power Cover), the Surface Pro 2's battery life is 75% longer than the Surface Pro's. Most of that seems to be from Haswell, but I'm also reading of a supposedly bigger battery. With the Power Cover, the battery life on the Pro 2 is 2.5x that of the Pro (on its own, though it seems that you can use the Power Cover with it, too). 2.5x is 150% longer battery life (I'm not sure why MS is mixing their language), so the Power Cover seems to provide about as much extra battery life as the improvements in the Pro 2 do. For example, if you got 4 hours on the Pro, you'd get 7 hours on the Pro 2 and 10 hours on the Pro 2 with the Power Cover.
    1
    Haswell chips, alone, offer up to 50% longer battery life, so that's most of the difference right there. The other little improvements that Microsoft did, all combined, probably account for "only" a 25-35% improvement. I guess that that's still a lot, but my point is just that that's not where most of the 75% improvement comes from.

    As long as it runs cooler and quieter i'm not that bothered about battery tbh, I sit here in bed now, chargers next to me if I need it, when I use it at work its plugged in, its more the ram and storage that I'm after as the extra ram means I can run my vm's and the storage means being able to store those vm's and ISO's etc.

    I'm still not convinced by 75%, maybe with the type power cover then yeah I could believe that, but on its own, with the same battery, it just doesn't add up, they couldn't of cut that many corners...
    Checkout the CPU's directly from Intel site, i5-3317u vs i5-4200u...
    http://ark.intel.com/compare/75459,65707

    Figures dont add up...