Discussing the performance of the Tegra 3 SoC

eeeeeee · Mar 13, 2012

Ipad 3's gpu, about twice the performance of the One X, but in OFFSCREEN 720p mode:

Check it out, http://glbenchmark.com/result.jsp?b...ersion=all&certified_only=1&brand=all&gpu=all

Would that mean there are no worries for game's performance? Since we have much lower resolution?

What i was thinking is that game makers who optimize their games for the new ipad, wouldn't make them run at native resolution, but something around 720p, and that would mean our One X is simply incapable of running ipad's optimized games, with less than half the performance of the ipad.

What do you think?

hamdir · Mar 13, 2012

eeeeeee said:
Check it out, http://glbenchmark.com/result.jsp

Would that mean there are no worries for game's performance? Since we have much lower resolution?

What i was thinking is that game makers who optimize their games for the new ipad, wouldn't make them run at native resolution, but something around 720p, and that would mean our One X is simply incapable of running ipad's optimized games, with less than half the performance of the ipad.

What do you think?

so why not post this in the mega thread mate

eeeeeee · Mar 13, 2012

hamdir said:
so why not post this in the mega thread mate

The mega thread is already pointless, as there is a forum for the One X,
and some subjects there are being neglected or not getting as much attention as they deserve.

hamdir · Mar 13, 2012

http://glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=Apple+iPad+3&benchmark=glpro21

720p offscreen

Egypt iPad3 140.9
Egypt iPad2 88.8
Egypt Prime 68
Egypt One X 64
Egypt One S 50

Pro iPad3 252.1
Pro iPad2 148.8
Pro Prime 81
Pro One X 82
Pro One S 76

Standard (native resolution)

Egypt iPad3 59.9 @2048x1536
Egypt iPad2 59.6 @1024×768
Egypt Prime 46.8 @1280x800
Egypt One X 51 @1280x720
Egypt One S 57 @540×960

Pro iPad3 60 @2048x1536
Pro iPad2 60 @1024×768
Pro Prime 54 @1280x800
Pro One X 54 @1280x720
Pro One S 60 @540×960

so we are talking between 2x and 3x the T3 and not 4x like Apple claimed

iPad3 CPU same as iPad2

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/13/new-ipad-gets-benchmarked-1gb-ram-confirmed-no-boost-in-cpu-sp/

eeeeeee · Mar 13, 2012

hamdir said:
http://glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=Apple+iPad+3&benchmark=glpro21

720p offscreen

Egypt Ipad3 140.9
Egypt Ipad2 88.8
Egypt Prime 68
Egypt One X 64
Egypt One S 50

Pro Ipad3 252.1
Pro Ipad2 148.8
Pro Prime 81
Pro One X 82
Pro One S 76

so we are talking between 2x and 3x the T3 and not 4x like Apple claimed

Thanks, indeed a little more than 2x on some benchmarks, although never 3x.
Now the big question here is whether the ipad will be upscaling games or rendering in native resolution.

Another question would be, is how does upscaling look (1:4) versus native low resolution (1:1).

These details will really affect my decision whether to get the One X, since I'm not planning to buy an outclassed gpu, as upscaled games will be able to run 2x on the ipad 3, and the One X already incapable of keeping up before being released.

hamdir · Mar 13, 2012

eeeeeee said:
Thanks, indeed a little more than 2x on some benchmarks, although never 3x.
Now the big question here is whether the ipad will be upscaling games or rendering in native resolution.

Another question would be, is how does upscaling look (1:4) versus native low resolution (1:1).

These details will really affect my decision whether to get the One X, since I'm not planning to buy an outclassed gpu, as upscaled games will be able to run 2x on the ipad 3, and the One X already incapable of keeping up before being released.

most game developers on twitter said the iPad3 GPU is not enough to feed the massive pixel count, so yes anticipate a lot of upscaling, Anandtech is making the same assumption

you keep forgetting that most Tegrazone T3 enhanced games used the quad cores for graphics....so the T3 standalone GPU will not keep up but the Quads will make up for it

its really not Apple to Apple comparison, the T3 is designed as a complete mobile graphics solution, Shadowgun THD and Glowball demos are real world examples

eeeeeee · Mar 13, 2012

hamdir said:
most game developers on twitter said the GPU will not be enough to feed the massive pixel count, so yes anticipate a lot of upscaling, Anandtech is making the same assumption

you keep forgetting that most Tegrazone T3 enhanced games used the quad cores for graphics....so the T3 standalone GPU will not keep up but the Quads will make up for it

its really not Apple to Apple comparison, the T3 is designed as a complete mobile graphics solution, Shadowgun THD and Glowball demos are real world examples

But to compete with the new ipad one must optimize the game for the T3 in the code level, which is never gonna happen outside of Nvidia's Tegra Zone.

hamdir · Mar 13, 2012

eeeeeee said:
But to compete with the new ipad one must optimize the game for the T3 in the code level, which is never gonna happen outside of Nvidia's Tegra Zone.

why? most games are optimised for their platforms, i didnt even think the DHD with Adreno205 can run shadowgun and it did when optimised for it

Unity developers documents reveal they optimize for every main GPU in the market

and regarding Tegrazone! its one of the best reasons to buy a T3, you have a powerhourse like Nvidia pushing devs to optimize for ti

same case with the iPad, devs have to optimize for the tile based GPU believe me keeping all those pixel inside a tile based buffer will be a major headache for iPad3 games

i really have doubts the iPhone5 will carry the 543MP4 if they want to keep parity with the iPad3 they will simply bump the speed iPhone4s CPU from 800 to 1000 and leave the old GPU

---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 PM ----------

if you make GPU benchmarks between Xbox 360 and Ps3 the Xbox will mope the floor withe PS3 GPU

but in real world there are many PS3 games the Xbox360 can not even make, while 90% of the time they match

Ps3 has the cores to assist its inferior GPU and Xbox360 has the GPU assisting its inferior CPU, very similar scenario here mate

in Desktop PC development they already moving to unify CPU/GPU cores

Finally

we already don't have a games match between android and apple, so whats your best choice for GPU if you skip T3? non my friend there is non, T3 is the best SOC for graphics right now on Android

eeeeeee · Mar 13, 2012

hamdir said:
why? most games are optimised for their platforms, i didnt even think the DHD with Adreno205 can run shadowgun and it did when optimised for it

Unity developers documents reveal they optimize for every main GPU in the market

and regarding Tegrazone! its one of the best reasons to buy a T3, you have a powerhourse like Nvidia pushing devs to optimize for ti

same case with the iPad, devs have to optimize for the tile based GPU believe me keeping all those pixel inside a tile based buffer will be a major headache for iPad3 games

i really have doubts the iPhone5 will carry the 543MP4 if they want to keep parity with the iPad3 they will simply bump the speed iPhone4s CPU from 800 to 1000 and leave the old GPU

Offloading graphics to cpu cores is very unnatural, and requires hard modifications to your code.
Again I'm not a graphic expert, but it really depends on one's coding style, becuase if you code your game well enough, it will not be hard to port it over to tegra 3, however, if there's no sign of threads or any seperation of processes in your game, you will have to literally re-develope the game for the tegra 3.

Now we all know the fact that developers favor ios over android almost in any case, especially for gaming, we can expect really bad performance in my opinion in less than a year of holding the One X.

By the way the fact that tegra 3 is the best soc out there for android, kind of depresses me.
I wanted to see android smartphone manufactoreres as htc and samsung adopt the powervr solution, since it's sadly much much better than any other mobile gpu in the market.

hamdir · Mar 13, 2012

yes but i am a graphics expert

We don't have a parity in iOS games vs Android, thanks to Tegrazone we have a lot more games

in fact Tegra3 already runs most games a lot better than on iPad2 with much higher resolution

i don't get your point

the competition is T3 vs iPad2 and not iPad3 since the extra cores will simply serve to feed more pixels (even if slightly upscaled the massive pixel count is beyond 4x) the T3 has 1.5 to 2x competition at most

if you have time read the unity development document to get a better idea

you still didn't answer me what is your alternative? buying an iOS device?

eeeeeee · Mar 13, 2012

hamdir said:
yes but i am a graphics expert

We don't have a parity in iOS games vs Android

in fact Tegra3 already runs most games a lot better than on iPad2 with much higher resolution

i don't get your point

the competition is T3 vs iPad2 and not iPad3 since the extra cores will simply serve to feed more pixels, the T3 has 1.5 to 2x competition at most

if you have time read the unity development document to understand

you still didn't answer me what is your alternative buying an iOS device?

Just to make sure we understand each other, I'm never even thinking of buying an ios device, the os sucks, but hell it's devices have very good hardware, and have the developers optimize things for them first.

You are right that more cpu power CAN be better and therefore the tegra 3 might perform better, however, I'm really honest when I ask whether we will have the developers support for every app and game that requires performance? or our soc gets neglected,
filled with choppy and stuttering games using only two cores half the power and pushing everything to the gpu?

Just look at adobe photoshop touch, tegra 3 performs like 5 fps zooming and panning while ipad 2 is 60fps.

hamdir · Mar 13, 2012

PowerVR tiling has its performance downhills too

an upcoming android phone with intel SOC + PowerVR SGX544 is coming so maybe you should consider that one

as for me im rushing to Nvidia and never coming back

its thanks to them that we are seeing a lot more games on android

eeeeeee · Mar 13, 2012

hamdir said:
PowerVR tiling has its performance downhills too

an upcoming android phone with intel SOC + PowerVR SGX544 is coming so maybe you should consider that one

as for me im rushing to Nvidia and never coming back

I don't think I will go for x86, but have a look at my edited previous post about adobe photoshop as an app that isn't optimized for tegra 3, and nobody really cares..

hamdir · Mar 13, 2012

regarding Photoshop touch, i hope its a development problem and not the limited memory bandwith on T3

we should ask nivida about this

eeeeeee · Mar 13, 2012

hamdir said:
regarding Photoshop touch, i hope its a development problem and not the limited memory bandwith on T3 we should ask nivida about this

Either one proves my point, that tegra 3 is useless without optimizations, or that tegra 3 is simply not good enough. Shame on Nvidia, what can I say.

hamdir · Mar 13, 2012

eeeeeee said:
Either one proves my point, that tegra 3 is useless without optimizations, or that tegra 3 is simply not good enough. Shame on Nvidia, what can I say.

mate optimising for certain hardware

is not wrong! in fact all hardware requires this, how else would you push things forward?? otherwise lets stick PowerVR and ARM in every device and call it quits so devs don't have to "optimize"

eeeeeee · Mar 13, 2012

hamdir said:
mate optimising for certain hardware is not wrong! in fact all hardware requires this, how else would you push things forward?? otherwise lets stick PowerVR and ARM in every device and call it quits so devs don't have to "optimize"

I accidently pressed the thanks button =] although if I think it over you do deserve one after your useful posts.

Every hardware requires optimizations, but history has proven that when you have a device that your software has to be over optimized for you to gain good performance, the developer might neglect it and just prefer worse performance - we are being witnessed to exactly that case when comparing adobe photoshop touch over the platforms, and I can deliver many other examples.

hamdir · Mar 13, 2012

ok regarding up-scaling

for sure iPad3 devs will use ups-calling but not by 4x, anything higher than 2x up-scaling will show its ugly face

in fact the only worry i have about T3 in general is not the GPU but the limited memory bandwidth but most tablets aver 720p and the T3 seems to keep up well, its also handles 1080p H264 very well

heavy games like infinity blade might suffer from the bandwidth though

but consider this, i always wanted to move to Tegra, why? because of a much better game support, you can't deny it's Tegrazone that started pushing high end 3d games to android

regarding optimisations, everyone said the same about the PS3 but with Sony backing it proved them wrong, i find it really wrong that we expect to pamper developers just because they are now comfortable with PowerVR thanks to iOS

eeeeeee · Mar 13, 2012

hamdir said:
ok regarding up-scaling

for sure iPad3 devs will use ups-calling but not by 4x, anything higher than 2x up-scaling will show its ugly face

in fact the only worry i have about T3 in general is no the GPU but the limited memory bandwidth but most tablets aver 720p and the T3 seems to keep up well

heavy games like infinity blade might suffer from the bandwidth though

Good subject, do you have any details about games in the transformer prime, or even apps that suffer from it already?

Regarding the PS3 analogy, I honestly think it's irrelevent simply because PS3 is a permanent targeted platform, which I hope tegra 3 remains for a long period of time.

hamdir · Mar 13, 2012

was Nvidia wrong by not shooting for the moon with its GPU and memory bandwith? yes but that's why they were the first to achieve a quad mobile SOC while Apple A6, ARMA15 and quad s4 are far away

oh and a very important point

according to unity Nvidia Tegra has the best development tools and performance analyzers, qualcomm comes second while the iPad2 tools are lacking

all we know about the Prime is that all THD games running a lot better vs iPad2

there is a reason why so many say "**** benchmarks"

Discussing the performance of the Tegra 3 SoC

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