[POLL] Black clipping / black crush
- Thread starter tenderchkn
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Its the photo. the transition/graduation is very smooth on both sides. In a dark room I can only see numbers 17-21 very faintly. Photo was taken in a lightened room without the flash so that I could show image.
Sent from my gNote using Taptalk
Thanks for your feedback. Maybe the Made in China phones don't exhibit the problem.
However, it's hard to believe you when you say that you can only see up to 17, because in your photo, I can definitely see the entire right side, and and three boxes on the left side (I'm viewing this on my calibrated monitor, not my phone). At 7, there seems to be an abrupt drop to black. If I can see this in the photo, it would seem that you should be able to see the numbers in a dark room. Can you retry this at night with the lights off? Turn the brightness to full, and see what the smallest number you are able to see is. Seeing it barely still counts.
Also, if possible, can you take a better photo of the screen? I realize that it's difficult to capture it in a dark environment without a good camera and/or tripod, but a dark setting is necessary to document this properly. Otherwise, the ambient light overpowers the display. A couple of things that would help is turning the brightness to the max, and setting both the camera and the phone down on a level surface, and taking a long exposure.
Your efforts will definitely be appreciated. Hopefully, we can get evidence that the Chinese made phones do not have this problem, and we can start pressuring AT&T or Samsung to replace our phones with Chinese made ones.
How can u check where u r phone was made?
Sent from the TermiNOTEr!
My box says "Made in Korea". Check yours. It might also say in the battery compartment, but I haven't taken it out to check.
MIC, pix, enjoy
You know I was looking at this and I think the MIC I got has it as well. The MIK I had was manufacturered 02/06/2012, not sure of the date on the MIC. But I got it brand new delivered overnight from AT&T 03/30/2012.
I use a 000 black wallpaper and when I press the unlock animation shows, the black transformes/shows gray/black bands. Not sure if that is what is meant by "banding".
I tested your image, but quickpic seems to have updated and the settings are slightly different, regardless I see all the numbers from 1+, 0 being totally black and doesn't transition in a darkroom, but it does in a lit room. I have to tilt the phone to notice the numbers if viewing close, but if at arms length it transitions gradually.
EDIT: You know I also notice a few settings and options that are default are slightly different on my MIC than my MIK.
You know I was looking at this and I think the MIC I got has it as well. The MIK I had was manufacturered 02/06/2012, not sure of the date on the MIC. But I got it brand new delivered overnight from AT&T 03/30/2012.
I use a 000 black wallpaper and when I press the unlock animation shows, the black transformes/shows gray/black bands. Not sure if that is what is meant by "banding".
I tested your image, but quickpic seems to have updated and the settings are slightly different, regardless I see all the numbers from 1+, 0 being totally black and doesn't transition in a darkroom, but it does in a lit room. I have to tilt the phone to notice the numbers if viewing close, but if at arms length it transitions gradually.
EDIT: You know I also notice a few settings and options that are default are slightly different on my MIC than my MIK.
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Tenderchkn [OP]
I am comparing my new note (Rev0.3 Made in China) with a very faulty black note (Made in Korea)
I downloaded gammatest image and opened it in QuickPic per instructions.
My observations where of the image in a room with natural light (not bright but not unlit). with my previous note I could see all the numbers clearly With a big jump 0-1. With the new note I see clear graduation of the colors which looks right to me. 0-7 is very dark, can bearly see numbers. 7-21 I can see all numbers.
I will upload a picture taken with my skyrocket (photography is not my strong point) in an unlit room and full brightness on screen when I get home.
I am comparing my new note (Rev0.3 Made in China) with a very faulty black note (Made in Korea)
I downloaded gammatest image and opened it in QuickPic per instructions.
My observations where of the image in a room with natural light (not bright but not unlit). with my previous note I could see all the numbers clearly With a big jump 0-1. With the new note I see clear graduation of the colors which looks right to me. 0-7 is very dark, can bearly see numbers. 7-21 I can see all numbers.
I will upload a picture taken with my skyrocket (photography is not my strong point) in an unlit room and full brightness on screen when I get home.
Ya know you beat me to it. Your explanation is so much better than mine. Your images look like my Note. I am not sure if this still constitutes clipping or just a lesser version of it. So I guess my new note has clipping too
Although the blacks are definitely blacker than my previous note and I can now enjoy netflex and youtube which where unwatchable on my previous note.
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A photo of my i717, made in Korea, rev 0.3, taken in my bathroom with the door shut with my Fuji F70EXR in macro mode, no flash. Viewed in Quickpic with 32bit color enabled:
http://www.moparhowto.com/pictures/cellphone/i717crush.jpg
http://www.moparhowto.com/pictures/cellphone/i717crush.jpg
MIC Rev0.3 White Note
Here are my pics in a completely dark room. I took 1 next to the image on my mac and they look exactly the same IMAO
20120403_1.jpg
20120403_2.jpg
Here are my pics in a completely dark room. I took 1 next to the image on my mac and they look exactly the same IMAO
20120403_1.jpg
20120403_2.jpg
Wow, all I can say is...you lucky bastard! Don't ever trade in that phone. It's too bad to hear that not all MIC phones are good like yours.
I am very happy to finally have a fully functional phone! This is my first time as an early adopter. This device has so much potential. I was so disappointed that QA was not better. It really shouldnt take all this for a device to operate as advertised.
Let me know specifics if you want me to check any other settings that may help pin this issue down.
FYI, my device is completely stock (not rooted) and no side loaded apps.
Sent from my gNote using Taptalk
I updated to the leaked ICS posted tonight and I went from seeing 1+ to now I can see 7+ but black clipping is still very much present in images and videos. Thought I would let everyone know that it did have an effect which means that software mods can definitely alter it.
Oh ****!
Ok I went into Quickpic > Settings > Cache.
There I checked "HD fullscreen previews" and cleared both cache. I look at the test image again and it totally changed and transitions perfectly! Don't know if this did anything or has anything to do with anything. Only other thing was I set brightness to max, but in a lit room.
I can still see all the numbers 1+ but it transitions slightly, in a dark room.
I tend to think it has something to do with the ambient lighting sensor as well.
Lol!! I took 10 pictures and on none of them you could see anything.
I do watch Anime on both the MIK and MIC and they tend to look as they look on my notebook. At least in a lit room, I don't tend to do much with my phone in the dark.
EDIT: phone is @mashi_root...
Ok I went into Quickpic > Settings > Cache.
There I checked "HD fullscreen previews" and cleared both cache. I look at the test image again and it totally changed and transitions perfectly! Don't know if this did anything or has anything to do with anything. Only other thing was I set brightness to max, but in a lit room.
I can still see all the numbers 1+ but it transitions slightly, in a dark room.
I tend to think it has something to do with the ambient lighting sensor as well.
Lol!! I took 10 pictures and on none of them you could see anything
.I do watch Anime on both the MIK and MIC and they tend to look as they look on my notebook. At least in a lit room, I don't tend to do much with my phone in the dark.
EDIT: phone is @mashi_root...
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It's less about where you can see up to, and more about how smoothly it goes to black. Or more technically, the contrast ratio between black, and one level above black. On most of our phones, black is very dark, and one level above black is very bright (probably in the magnitude of 100 times brighter than black). If this difference is smaller, then we wouldn't notice the transition and therefore, the clipping would be invisible or nearly so.
Obviously, it's not a perfect picture but I can only go off of what I see, and it looks different than my phone or pictures of other phones posted on this thread.
Has anyone tried to see if the black clipping or crush is fixed? With the new ICS update.
Sent from the TermiNOTEr!
Sent from the TermiNOTEr!
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4From the Moderator...........
All of you..... play nice in here, the discussion is about clipping and misc screen flaws....... if you all cannot stay on that topic or closely related then this thread gets closed.
PeartFan40...... stop.... stop baiting ...... let it go stay on topic.....
tenderchkn.......stop.... inciting...... no good ever comes from it....
Now please be respectful to each other
Thanks All ~ oka1
2I wanted to branch out from the other thread and actually do a poll to see how many people are experiencing this problem, and how severely. In the other thread (http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1515299), several people claim that their copies are absolutely perfect and show no signs of black crush. If you indeed have a "good" screen, your feedback will be incredibly valuable. Please post pictures of your phone, if you do the test below and the blacks display correctly!
The reason that most of us are seeing "black crush" or ugly blockiness in dark areas in videos and photos is that these artifacts are present in the source material. Blocky patterns are a result of compression, and are most noticeable at the extreme ends of the dynamic range, where there is the least amount of detail. So if these compression artifacts are present in the source material, why do we not see it on other devices? It is because most other displays are properly calibrated to gradually gradate dark tones from dark gray to black. In other words, on a properly calibrated display, the color #000000 (black, or RGB 0,0,0) is virtually in distinguishable from #010101 (RGB 1,1,1). In fact, it is hard to tell a difference until #050505 (RGB 5,5,5). Therefore, most of the clipping that occurs as a result of compression artifacts is hidden. However, with the Note, #010101 is very much distinguishable from #000000. Dark tones are too bright, and we're able to see clearly until #010101. Instead of gradually moving to black, at #000000, it drops off a cliff. This is why we see such a dramatic different between the darkest grays and blacks, and why this black crush issue is so noticeable.
The side effect of having grays that are too bright is that when watching Blu-ray quality HD video, the dark areas look washed out, and the picture lacks "punch". High quality video that is properly encoded very rarely have pure blacks (to avoid clipping). As a result, dark scenes appear too bright on our phones.
The method to test is with a gamma test pattern, which I have attached. Download QuickPic from Market/Play (free). Go to Settings -> Viewer, and check the box for 32-bit render. Then, download the attached .png file, and view it in full screen in QuickPic. Make sure to do this in a DARK room!
Each box with a number has a corresponding RGB value. For example, the box with the number 1 is RGB 1,1,1, and so on. Load it on your Note and report back the smallest number that you are able to see. Also, does it gradually go to black, or does it just abruptly go to black without a smooth transition?
Last week, I went to two AT&T stores, and tested every display model with this method. Even with the bright store lights, it was possible to see box #1 on every phone. Repeated the test on an iPad 2, Galaxy Tab 10.1, and Skyrocket. The iPad was too dark, as the entire left side of the test picture is unreadable. On the Galaxy Tab, I could see box #7 or so. The Skyrocket showed a similar problem to the Note, as it seemed to abruptly transition to black. However, it was still a bit smoother than the Note, and box #4 was the smallest I could see.
Here's a picture of the test on my phone. The right side is the test image itself, so you can see how it is supposed to look like on your computer screen. Compare this with what you see on your phones.
2Not sure if you guys have seen this video or not on Youtube. But this is how it obviously should and shouldn't be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a8aIGeLERg2Just download (sceen Adjuster) from play store
and put red (3) contrast (10 - 20)
and check picture again2This "black crush" problem is a resilt of poor video/picture quality. It's not a flaw of the device. I have seen this occur on my SGS II, my Skyrocket, and my Note. I've also experienced this on my 28" $600 computer monitor, and even on my 52" Sharp Aquos Quattron LED LCD TV. It's a source issue, period. Of the resolution of a particular video is low, or of poornquality, pixelation or blockiness will occur. Its completely normal, and affects all types of displays. It's not unique to the Galaxy Note. Threads like this annoy me to no end. It's pretty simple, avoid low quality video and images and you won't see it. This isn't rocket science.
Here is a link to a forum where certain blu-ray movies cause this.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=40198
Please, stop creating these ridiculous threads. All it does is create panic amoung Galaxy Note owners.
Not trying to be rude, but seriously...The display and the rest of the hardware on the Note is perfectly fine. Actually, the Note has the best looking display I've seen on any mobile phone thus far.
Sent from my Galaxy Note (SGH-i717) using XDA Premium.
