GPS (possible issue)

GPS working for you?


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BarryH_GEG

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2009
10,197
5,142
Spokane, Washington
First, the tablet needs root. Once root is done a dev, OR anyone with the right knowledge, can go in and properly code and clean up and add to the prop files and other related files that give the GPS crucial information on how to act. It has been clearly pointed out some of these are not properly written or incomplete. But people just roll right over that and focus on the metal back.

Second, given the other huge change about this tablet from any other is the Tegra 3 chip, again, once root is attained and a more savvy dev is able to get in a poke around, there very well might be a chance that the GPS is not using the cores properly and thus, we get sporadic results given how the Tegra 3 chip and it's companion core delegate workload. Another interesting possibility people just roll over and focus on the metal back as it has been repeated over and over and over as the cause.

Three simple tests to prove the back cover guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt:

1) Take it off. If the Prime's still piss poor, it's not the cover. If it suddenly works as well as the TF1 (a fairly low bar), case closed.

2) The plastic-backed Lenovo and Acer will be out soon and revealed at CES. I know an editor from one of the online rags and he's going to test them (if he can) at CES. If another Teg3 works fine, it has nothing to do with the SoC.

3) For those excusing the issue as s/w because "the Prime was always supposed to run on ICS and HC was rushed" that answer will be available on January 12th.

Since people are still unwilling to accept that the manufacturer themselve's has publically stated that it's the metal cover, hopefully one or all of the above will convince them. I have seen the XDA development community work miracles, but never once have they been able to overcome a h/w issue with s/w. Make it better, yes. Fix what can't be fixed, no. A good example of their limitations is working with a device that has an Nvidia SoC because of its locked and proprietary drivers.

I'm not trying to convince people that don't want to be convinced. But people reading these forums could easily buy in to some of what's being said; especially since it's being said so strongly. And while it's not impossible that it's s/w, it seems like a long, long, long, shot.
 

robomo

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2011
126
21
I'm convinced it *is* partially resulting from the metal back. But to what extent is it because of the backing, and to what extent is from software has to yet to be determined.

And i have yet to see a formal, rigorous test with and without backing - a challenge to someone willing to take a knife to the back plate!

Basically - we've all spewed tremendous amounts of hot gases into the atmosphere (I included). It's time for hard community experiments.

We need to pull our sleeves up and "git'r done"
 

BarryH_GEG

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2009
10,197
5,142
Spokane, Washington
One more thing...

Before anyone writes yet another "my Prime has working GPS" post. The only thing that will convice me, and I'm guess many others, will be a video using either CoPilot or cached Maps in Google showing that navigation s/w can find, hold, and keep up with a signal driving a route that has at least two turns in it.

That is the most basic of tests and one that any tablet should be able to do with ease.

P.S. - Having the Prime completely horizontal on your dashboard or strapped to your roof doesn't count. Other tablets don't require any gymnastics to work properly.
 

JoeyLe

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
506
107
I'm convinced it *is* partially resulting from the metal back. But to what extent is it because of the backing, and to what extent is from software has to yet to be determined.

And i have yet to see a formal, rigorous test with and without backing - a challenge to someone willing to take a knife to the back plate!

Basically - we've all spewed tremendous amounts of hot gases into the atmosphere (I included). It's time for hard community experiments.

We need to pull our sleeves up and "git'r done"

I suppose the back isn't put on the hardware with superglue :)p). So it could be done without any damage, however if there is a void sticker you've lost your warranty while doing it. Would be very helpful to the community.
 

robomo

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2011
126
21
I'm not trying to convince people that don't want to be convinced.

We're pretty damn capable folk - I think people would be more convinced if there was more rigorous experimental data, and less hot vapor

JBLw0.png
 

robomo

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2011
126
21
P.S. - Having the Prime completely horizontal on your dashboard or strapped to your roof doesn't count. Other tablets don't require any gymnastics to work properly.

The key is to find out *exactly* what we're dealing with here, *including* laying it horizontal on the dashboard.

However, I exactly agree - it *shouldn't* need that kind of gymnastic to work properly. But we've moved on from the "shouldn't" stage to "how can we fix this" stage. ASUS F'd up, publically acknowledged they F'd up, and we're on our own to fix their F-up.

First we have to see how big they F'd up, rigorously before we can determine proper courses to fix the issues.

Root and open bootloader for ICS will allow software devs to figure out ways to optimize the GPS software with the hardware that we do have.

Case mods like what you've recommended will help determine what we can do on the hardware side of things.

Between the two we'll have the best of both worlds - optimized GPS drivers and software implementation, and the best kick-ass hardware mods available. Marry the two and we'll probably make it work good enough.
 
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Jon Clarke

Member
Feb 23, 2011
7
1
Since people are still unwilling to accept that the manufacturer themselve's has publically stated that it's the metal cover, hopefully one or all of the above will convince them.

I just thought that I'd point out that this isn't exactly what Asus said in their official statement. What they actually said was:

"Regarding GPS: the Transformer Prime is made from a metallic unibody design, so the material may affect the performance of the GPS when receiving signals from satellites. Please note that this product is not a professional GPS device, and signal performance can be easily influenced by factors including, but not limited to: weather, buildings, and surrounding environments. Please understand there are limitations when using the GPS function. To avoid inconveniencing users who demand a powerful GPS device, we made the decision to remove it from our specification sheet and marketing communications. We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused".

Unless there is some other official statement that I've missed, all Asus have said is that it may affect GPS signal reception, not that it is the cause of all the problems. I suspect that the statement was thoroughly vetted by lawyers to ensure that it did not actually say anything that might be used against them later - hence the references to other factors.
 

shinzz

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2011
928
155
I just thought that I'd point out that this isn't exactly what Asus said in their official statement. What they actually said was:

"Regarding GPS: the Transformer Prime is made from a metallic unibody design, so the material may affect the performance of the GPS when receiving signals from satellites. Please note that this product is not a professional GPS device, and signal performance can be easily influenced by factors including, but not limited to: weather, buildings, and surrounding environments. Please understand there are limitations when using the GPS function. To avoid inconveniencing users who demand a powerful GPS device, we made the decision to remove it from our specification sheet and marketing communications. We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused".

Unless there is some other official statement that I've missed, all Asus have said is that it may affect GPS signal reception, not that it is the cause of all the problems. I suspect that the statement was thoroughly vetted by lawyers to ensure that it did not actually say anything that might be used against them later - hence the references to other factors.


Does it really matter anymore at this point? If you like your Prime & are hoping for GPS to magically function (based on your own GPS expectation) later down the road.. JUST KEEP IT. If not, as many of us have pointed out what proper GPS functioning device is, return it.. or if your retailer (Gamestop for me) won't accept it, figure out a way to get a refund or compensation from Asus.

The constant bickering on what GPS is now useless, since Asus WILL NOT SUPPORT IT & have removed the GPS specification.

If you can't accept Asus's statement, and if you think you are clever enough to find a solution .. WORK ON IT. Prove us wrong, and show us your result & how to fix it. To my knowledge (as a dev mainly for PC), you can't fix an issue when you are limited by HARDWARE.
 

drzoo2

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2011
129
28
I have engineers that work for me. Your statement is what makes them so much fun. Nothing is real unless proven to a 99.9% certainty. To quote Freud, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." ;)

As an Engineer and having been burned by gut feel without enough data.....

"Sometimes a cigar can also be a sex toy" - William Jefferson Clinton :eek:
 

Lock-N-Load

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2010
1,618
392
Under Your Skin
This information is directly quoted from Asus UK Facebook:-

Oh, well then, I guess I better just lay down then and give up since they say so and accept their position and "statement"... bah.. nope. Seen tech companies proved wrong many times despite their claims. Give it some time and root and then we will really see. Or, until someone really rips the back off one and gets a 100% difference in function. But in lieu of that, I'll take root and a smart dev any day over some companies claims about what can and cannot be done.

(It is almost laughable that just reposting their "statement" was suppose to like make me change my opinions somehow away from 3 fairly logical points I made)
 
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Lock-N-Load

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2010
1,618
392
Under Your Skin
Now that we have root - I have yet to likely tomorrow - a few guys in the other GPS thread are reporting some success with changing the GPS.config file with updated north american content... just like 1 of the points I made that might improve things pages ago. I plan to try it myself as I said I am more of a believer in software as the culprit than most.

Here is a great dissertation on why tweaking that file - thanks to root - can make a huge difference and improve the GPS issue via software http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=11342772&postcount=1
 
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j0p3y

Member
Jan 4, 2012
28
2
What would be a great alternative for me is for Asus to come with a separate gps-module that preferrably is clicked on the side of the tablet. Other solution would be a wireless module.
I won't use GPS frequently so a separate gps-mouse is Ok.
Also with a separate gps-module there's little problem anymore with metal-coated windshields.
Even dedicated navigation-devices have problems with that!
With one of my cars, having a separate gps-module is the only solution to be able to navigate by gps
.
 

nxp3

Senior Member
Apr 26, 2011
367
35
What would be a great alternative for me is for Asus to come with a separate gps-module that preferrably is clicked on the side of the tablet. Other solution would be a wireless module.
I won't use GPS frequently so a separate gps-mouse is Ok.
Also with a separate gps-module there's little problem anymore with metal-coated windshields.
Even dedicated navigation-devices have problems with that!
With one of my cars, having a separate gps-module is the only solution to be able to navigate by gps
.

The unit has a GPS in there already. Knowing the metal back would cause problem, they should have just create an extra port/jack for a GPS antenna, for some of us who needs a working GPS or want to use one.

---------- Post added at 07:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 AM ----------

Does it really matter anymore at this point? If you like your Prime & are hoping for GPS to magically function (based on your own GPS expectation) later down the road.. JUST KEEP IT. If not, as many of us have pointed out what proper GPS functioning device is, return it.. or if your retailer (Gamestop for me) won't accept it, figure out a way to get a refund or compensation from Asus.

The constant bickering on what GPS is now useless, since Asus WILL NOT SUPPORT IT & have removed the GPS specification.

If you can't accept Asus's statement, and if you think you are clever enough to find a solution .. WORK ON IT. Prove us wrong, and show us your result & how to fix it. To my knowledge (as a dev mainly for PC), you can't fix an issue when you are limited by HARDWARE.

Well there maybe a hardware fix. Anandtech has actually remove the prime. There's a vague description on how to remove it safely. If the problem is truly the metal back maybe the back can be taken off. A circular hole in the back can be cut out, reposition the gps antenna behind it, and covered with a plastic insert.
 

shinzz

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2011
928
155
The unit has a GPS in there already. Knowing the metal back would cause problem, they should have just create an extra port/jack for a GPS antenna, for some of us who needs a working GPS or want to use one.

---------- Post added at 07:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 AM ----------



Well there maybe a hardware fix. Anandtech has actually remove the prime. There's a vague description on how to remove it safely. If the problem is truly the metal back maybe the back can be taken off. A circular hole in the back can be cut out, reposition the gps antenna behind it, and covered with a plastic insert.

I was just referring to people bickering about what GPS is and isn't. There was an endless cycle of people debating about GPS definition & testing procedure (after all the description, summary, & links.. another random post springs up to restart the whole debate).

Asus admitted that poor GPS functionality is based on poor design & hardware. Asus also made a statement & by removing GPS off of their specification.. ASUS will not support GPS. At that point, the person should either find ways to:
1. get a full refund or compensation from Asus/retailer
2. decide if Prime is worth keeping without GPS
3. force Asus to repair their Prime to have working GPS


But yea, good find on Anandtech article. Now, who has plastic opening tool & heat gun??
 

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  • 4
    I felt compelled to register and post because I see a lot of misinformation here. Let's get a few facts straight...

    -GPS does not require the use of a WiFi(802.11) or cellular(2G/3G/4G) connection to get a first fix
    -Some implementations of GPS have the capability to use WiFi and/or cellular connections as an option to help speed up time to first fix. This is called AGPS and only affects time to first fix.
    -Accuracy of GPS typically does not increase with WiFi or cellular connection. In other words, once a fix is obtained, GPS accuracy is the same whether WiFi or cellular connections are present. I say typically though because there are some advanced systems that use off device servers to do some heavy computations and then relay device location back to the device through WiFi or cellular. I doubt this is the case with the TF201.
    -Some devices have no GPS and just use WiFi or cellular data to provide a very rough (e.g. 200m) location accuracy. THIS IS NOT GPS.

    I believe the TF201 has a GPS system that uses WiFi to help speed up time to first fix. That said, WiFi should not be required in the TF201 when trying to get a first fix, and the lack of WiFi should only extend the time to first fix.

    Given the symptoms people are reporting, and the fact that it is not consistent from device to device, I also believe the problem plaguing the TF201 is hardware related and specifically related to the GPS's receive sensitivity. Perhaps there is some variation in antenna impedance from tablet to tablet. This could be caused by something as trivial and devastating such as manufacturing intolerances that cause the aluminum metal casing to inadvertently touch an antenna and screw up the receive path impedance.
    3
    So I just got my replacement ATP. Before I took the first one I got back to
    Best buy I shot a comparison video for the GPS. The Second one I got has a
    working GPS. Its not as strong as it should be but its working. The first one..
    nothing.

    Both on my car hood in my driveway on a clear night with full view of the sky.
    It took about 1 minute for the one with a working gps to get any signal. The
    signal strenth seemed to fluctuate a lot.

    3
    Who'd listen to you? You're an idiot. :)

    I suggest people trying to get a fix without holding the tablet. Try laying it on its face and back and see if you can get a fix.
    3
    Hello fellow members. I know this is not a fix but a workaround to have navigation working assuming you have a smartphone with bluetooth tethering .

    I have the transformer prime nonrooted and evo 4g running cm7.1.

    I used this how to video

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=/watch?v=d43uq-gzI_I&v=d43uq-gzI_I&gl=US

    I first blutooth tether to get internet access. Uses less battery. (I didnt follow his wifi tethering instructions )

    Make phone discoverable connect tablet. Hit pair on both devices, then connect internet on tablet bluetooth setting ( once done i turn off discoverable on phone)

    Then enable the phones gps app (gps over bt, market free )left discoverable at 30. (I change this to 5 still works fine)

    On the tablet i went to settings application setting enable mock location

    I then launched the tablet gps app (bluetooth gps, market free by googoo ) and enable mock location. Then hit the connect button. And thats it.

    Add the widget tablet. Done.

    Hopefully ics does fix this problem

    I love my evo 4g with cm7. Does everthing i need

    Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
    2
    not getting a single sat here. coming from a Galaxy S, this isn't new to me...