[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty

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dholms

Senior Member
Sep 30, 2013
71
6
Anyone know if there is any info about this stuff with relation to Australia?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk now Free
 

mawa54

Member
Mar 15, 2010
12
11
Just got a reply from amazon germany:

"Durch das Flashen haben Sie die Mangelhaftungsgarantie für Ihre Smartphone (''Samsung Galaxy S III i9300 Smartphone 16 GB (12,2 cm (4,8 Zoll) HD Super-AMOLED-Touchscreen, 8 Megapixel Kamera, Android OS) metallic-blue'') leider verloren. Daher ist in diesem Fall leider keine Nacherfüllung über Amazon.de mehr möglich."

translated by google:

"By flashing you have the defect liability warranty for your Smartphone ('' Samsung i9300 Galaxy S III Smartphone 16GB (12,2 cm (4.8 inch) HD Super AMOLED touchscreen, 8 megapixel camera, Android OS) metallic blue '') unfortunately lost. Therefore no subsequent performance on Amazon.de more is unfortunately possible in this case."

My 20 month old S3 has the EMMC bug (type VTU00M, FwRev 0xf1) and is flashed with CM 11.

What can I do here?
 

pathologo

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2008
658
49
I don't know if Amazon is right from a legal point.
But refusing any service with that reason, I highly doubt that they are right.
Your device has a hardware bug, but Amazon refuses service because of a modified software. If you read this thread you will see that these are two different things from a legal point.

Did you try to contact Samsung directly?
 

mawa54

Member
Mar 15, 2010
12
11
Not yet. Three years ago I had very bad experience also with a bad EMMC of a HTC DesireZ.
After many mails they refused any warranty because it was flashed.
So I want to avoid such hassle with samsung.

In the meantime, I found and used "Dummy file generator" with great success. :)

Amazon: "Unser Ziel: das kundenfreundlichste Unternehmen der Welt zu sein. Ihr Feedback hilft uns dabei." ;) ;)
 

rogier666

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2011
599
145
androidblog.site666.info
Just got a reply from amazon germany:

"Durch das Flashen haben Sie die Mangelhaftungsgarantie für Ihre Smartphone (''Samsung Galaxy S III i9300 Smartphone 16 GB (12,2 cm (4,8 Zoll) HD Super-AMOLED-Touchscreen, 8 Megapixel Kamera, Android OS) metallic-blue'') leider verloren. Daher ist in diesem Fall leider keine Nacherfüllung über Amazon.de mehr möglich."

translated by google:

"By flashing you have the defect liability warranty for your Smartphone ('' Samsung i9300 Galaxy S III Smartphone 16GB (12,2 cm (4.8 inch) HD Super AMOLED touchscreen, 8 megapixel camera, Android OS) metallic blue '') unfortunately lost. Therefore no subsequent performance on Amazon.de more is unfortunately possible in this case."

My 20 month old S3 has the EMMC bug (type VTU00M, FwRev 0xf1) and is flashed with CM 11.

What can I do here?
Sellers often try that, because they know that most people will just give up instead of fighting for their rights.
 
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Rene_ajax

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2012
1,048
153
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Amsterdam
And how about S-off and S-on on the HTC, Samsung's KNOX flash counter, Motorola's bootloader unlock, etc. etc.??
With these ''security checks'' from manufacturers they actually CAN prove that a defect is users fault...

Will they then still provide you the warranty?? I think answer is NO
 
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Yank555

Senior Member
Sep 18, 2009
8,713
19,939
Sony Xperia Pro-I
And how about S-off and S-on on the HTC, Samsung's KNOX flash counter, Motorola's bootloader unlock, etc. etc.??
With these ''security checks'' from manufacturers they actually CAN prove that a defect is users fault...

Will they then still provide you the warranty?? I think answer is NO

No, they can't prove it's your fault with this, all they can do is only prove that you flashed a different kernel/recovery, but not that what you flashed actually killed the device, that is a very different thing, and that is required by law.

But having the law on your side will not protect you from them turning you down, and making you have to take this to court, so yes they are stronger than your are if you have no legal insurance to cover for your costs.

JP.

Sent from my Nexus 6 running Yank555.lu SlimLP 5.0.2 LRX22G on Yank555.lu v0.8 kernel.
 
Unfortunately, Orange Romania doesn't seems to be aware of the current EU legislation. They just cancelled my warranty of the LG G2 , main reason seems to be that i've rooted the device.
I sent for warranty, for the famous yellow spot on the screen . Even if i sent it with stock firmware, unroot, it was useless.
I will do however complaint to the consumer protection association.
However, I am very intrigued by the fact that I really do not think famous yellow spot appeared fromthe installation of custom firmware.
 

Yank555

Senior Member
Sep 18, 2009
8,713
19,939
Sony Xperia Pro-I
So, with Knox tripped the warranty will be OK anyway?

Legally, yes, but if they play hard, you'll have to take them to court. You're still the "small one" and they are the "big one".

Legally they have to prove that what you did caused the failure (whatever it is). Also, according to the legal text, the seller is liable (will have to pay), not the OEM !

JP.
 
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Brezi6

Member
May 25, 2015
12
2
In Slovenia mentioning this directive didn't help. They said rooting cancels your warranty and my phone had a faulty screen (they said screen is detaching from the phone so nothing software could do and i had stock rom 5.01 on my note 4) ... :(
 

davrla41

Member
Nov 29, 2014
7
0
Note 4 root

In Slovenia mentioning this directive didn't help. They said rooting cancels your warranty and my phone had a faulty screen (they said screen is detaching from the phone so nothing software could do and i had stock rom 5.01 on my note 4) ... :(

Did you tell them about the law? If so, what did they say? I'm thinking about rooting my Note 4 but still not sure about the warranty.
 

khan1989

Senior Member
Aug 19, 2011
178
31
London
I was sent here by TycerX, I had started my own thread on my current progress with Motorola Support as they have invalidated my warranty when I sent mine back because of the wretched "Green Line" screen issue.

Just wanted to know if anyone successfully changed an OEM's decision after spouting this EU directive?
I'm currently trying to do this by complaining to Motorola via resolver.co.uk and mentioned this directive and how modifying the software has nothing to do with a wide-spread recognised screen issue.
So much for that 4 year screen warranty / indestructible screen B.S. Motorola were spewing all over their adverts. NEVER listen to adverts!
 

savahu

Member
Jul 18, 2014
47
10
I was sent here by TycerX, I had started my own thread on my current progress with Motorola Support as they have invalidated my warranty when I sent mine back because of the wretched "Green Line" screen issue.

Just wanted to know if anyone successfully changed an OEM's decision after spouting this EU directive?
I'm currently trying to do this by complaining to Motorola via resolver.co.uk and mentioned this directive and how modifying the software has nothing to do with a wide-spread recognised screen issue.
So much for that 4 year screen warranty / indestructible screen B.S. Motorola were spewing all over their adverts. NEVER listen to adverts!
Official answer from Motorola:
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Moto-X...-re-Warranty-for-Pure-Style/m-p/3202233#M5570
To sum up and clarify:

Unlocking the bootloader will show your warranty as void.
However, if an unrelated physical material failure should occur, such as a bad volume rocker or a failed speaker, it will be covered if the phone shows no signs of physical abuse. The key is that the problem can’t be traced to software or abuse…
The above guidelines are applicable in the US only. Policies differ by region/country.
 
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rogier666

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2011
599
145
androidblog.site666.info
The problem with the law is that it works sl-o-o-o-o-o-w.

If you have to fight for your right to warranty repairs in court, you'll probably win. But that can take many years, especially when the seller appeals the first judgement and drags things out in the even slower EU courts of appeal. By the time the judges have done their job you've won the right to have an old obsolete phone repaired that you've already replaced twice by newer models. You probably can't even find that old phone anymore under all the spider webs.
 

MalarKeY007

Senior Member
May 21, 2011
161
163
So, what about the G5 H850?

LG says "Once your phone is unlocked, it will no longer be covered by LG warranty."
It doesn't talk about root or anything, but about unlocking the bootloader.

Since they stated this: Can I still use LG warranty, based on EU 1999 Directive or anything that I missed?

It will get an infinite loop since the seller needs to give the warranty and the LG will deny it?

There is a way to get the warranty?
The product has 2 problems, Screen Burn in and GPS, it is a hardware problem, not caused by the root.
 

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  • 109
    All Android users were or are wondering whether flashing their device will void the warranties of their devices.

    This concerns European customers (EU).

    In short :

    The FSFE (Free Software Foundation Europe), has concluded that rooting and flashing our devices don't void their warranties. Manufacturers can't refuse to repair a device because modifying or changing system software is not a sufficient reason to void the "statutory warranty". The seller has to prove that the defect is caused by user's actions before completelly voiding the warranty. Unless that, the standard 2 years of the warranty is still valid. So the Directive 1999/44/CE dictates1 protects consummers even if they have rooted and flashed their system in order to use custom ROMs.

    • FSFE Legal team has analysed this issue and the answer, if the consumer bought it inside the EU, is no.
    • The consumer does not loose the obligatory 2-year warranty on the device just because the device is flashed.
    • "A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it to stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software".

    Full article :

    Directive 1999/44/CE dictates1 that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer2. inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.

    A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts3 stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent — the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.

    If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.

    If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device4. But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused5 the defect. It is generally recognised by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.

    So, we finally come to the question of rooting, flashing and changing the software. Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.

    Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!

    So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.

    In case the seller refuses your right to repair or replace the device, you can sue him in a civil litigation and can report the incident to the national authority. In many European countries such action does not even require hiring a lawyer and is most of the time ensured by consumers associations.

    The warranty under this Directive is only applicable inside the European Union and only if you bought the device as a consumer.

    [1] EU member states must have by now imported the Directive 1999/44/CE into their national laws. So you should quote also your local law on that topic.

    [2] A consumer is a natural person who acts for their own private purposes and not as a professional. .

    [3] Batteries can be exempt of this and usually hold only 6 months warranty.

    [4] E.g. a defect power button could be caused by spreading marmalade in it or hooking it onto a robot that would continuously press the button every second 24/7 — of course that is not normal or intended use.

    [5] Note that correlation is not causation — the defect has to be proven to be caused by your action, not just correlate with it.

    [6] E.g. if a device manufacturer guarantees the phone is water- and shock-proof or a car manufacturer offers 7 years of warranty against rust.

    Source, article

    Reference : EUR-Lex
    7
    Regarding this directive, I thought, as I already spent the time googling this stuff, this complementary documentation might come in handy :

    Directive full texts in EU languages :

    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Result.do?...Affichage=sort_key&page=1&idReq=1&Submit22=GO (bottom list)

    Directive :

    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?...,330258:cs,&pos=2&page=1&nbl=2&pgs=10&hwords=

    Reference to national law implementations :

    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:71999L0044:EN:NOT

    As I read a few posts back someone stating the national law overrides EU directives, that is more or less accurate, in fact, directives have to be implemented into national law (member states have no choice and will be drawn to EU court if they don't), and until they are implemented, the old national law will indeed continue apply.

    On the other hand this directive is 14 years old, so all member states should have implemented it in the meantime.

    The last link being the most interesting as you can see in what texts this has been implemented to in the respective member states.

    Using those texts, you should have more power to compell the reseller to fulfill his duties.

    Just thought I would share...

    JP.
    3
    "Running any software on the device that we don't approve voids your warrenty." (And I'm pretty sure that will include rooting software)
    In most parts of the world such clauses were ruled invalid a long time ago.
    The manufacturer has to prove that you did something wrong and that these allegedly wrong actions actually bricked the device.

    The OP ist not entirely correct.

    You can only claim the compulsory warranty from the seller you bought the phone at.
    You are wrong. That's only true for a certain amount of time after which the manufacturer is held responsible.

    The manufacturer on the other hand still has the right to make up rules when warranty applies and when it does not.
    Bullsh*t!

    Your contract is not with the manufacturer but with your seller.
    You are wrong again, see above.
    2
    So if they refuse, should I print this and give it to them? :D
    2
    Technically it's also not allowed to lock the bootloader without giving a way of unlocking it since it restrict the software that the user can use on his phone, but theres still lots of phones with locked bootloaders with no way of unlocking it.

    Also it's really easy to tell someone bringing their phone into repair that their phone is broken because they did something while having root permissions if the person involved doesn't know electronics so well. It's still a step in a better direction.