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HTC Bootloader and Warranty an on-line conversation

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BarryH_GEG
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Originally Posted by tkolev View Post
I'm not being rude. We are all adults and as such we should take responsibility for our actions. Unfortunately this whole conversation is begining to look like "why didn't they told me I sholdn't dry my cat in the microwave? Arrrrgh I'm so angry, I'll sue them!"
When HTC locked the bootloader in the first place, many of us said "we know why you did that, but we feel we should be given a choice" and HTC listened. Those were the terms of the deal - unlocking the bootloader = voiding the warranty. It's our choice to make. I guess HTC made up that "you may loose your warranty" just to stay within the law. Also apparently they charge you for the restoration of your phone to factory condition not for the repair (if they are still covered by the warranty). Imagine the following situation: max operation temp of the CPU is 90 degrees. Due to the manufacturing process different units have max operational temp of 85 - 95 degrees. So to be safe nVidia made it stop at 80. HTC uses screens that have max operational temp of 75 - 85 degrees depending on the unit. So they cut the max phone temperature at 70. You flash another ROM. It doesn't stop at 70 and you are fine because you got a screen that operates well till 85 degrees and you never go that high because of the hardware failsafe inside the CPU. Then a pixel dies. HTC replaces the screen with a unit that has max temp of 75 (note that this is still within the manufacturing tolerace specified by whoever makes them). Then your custom ROM fries the screen because it operates above its max operational temp. Who is to blame?

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Great summation. I guess there's two ways of looking at this. HTC could have taken the all or nothing approach that Asus has from the beginning and probably not covered a lot of on-the-fence (was it a defect or user induced damage?) repairs they have with devices before the One X. There still would have been bitching (why should HTC take such a hard line?) but there would have been no ambiguity. Now, they are taking a hard line.

Glass half full = people with earlier devices got a lot of potentially questionable repairs for free. Glass half empty = starting with the One's, the party's over.

In the U.S., the word "may" in a contract is a defined and recognized term. Personally, I’d never enter in to a contract with the word “may” in it unless what “may” included and excluded was explicitly defined. Otherwise, in the absence of that definition, “may” might as well be “will.” Based on that, users in the U.S. don’t have a lot of remedies available. Good luck to those of you in the rest of the world that are willing to fight the "man" for what you believe in is right.
 
mathrania
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HTC ( hereinafter referred to as "they" ) should define the word "MAY" properly on their website...they should mention what would be covered and what not after the bootloader is unlocked....else, they should clearly mention that you WILL void you warranty after unlocking the bootloader.

They have their own rules, but here they are not being clear on what they say
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BarryH_GEG
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Originally Posted by mathrania View Post
HTC ( hereinafter referred to as "they" ) should define the word "MAY" properly on their website...they should mention what would be covered and what not after the bootloader is unlocked....else, they should clearly mention that you WILL void you warranty after unlocking the bootloader.

They have their own rules, but here they are not being clear on what they say
The time to have questioned the lack of definition was before you clicked the "OK" button. You lose and HTC gains almost all leverage because "may" is not clearly defined. In front of a judge (at least in the U.S.), you can state what you thought “may” should mean but in the absence of definition there wouldn’t be a leg to stand on. Their attorneys didn't choose the language they did accidentally.
 
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Easy. I'm selling my One X and going back to Samsung.
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treebill
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Originally Posted by BarryH_GEG View Post
The time to have questioned the lack of definition was before you clicked the "OK" button. You lose and HTC gains almost all leverage because "may" is not clearly defined. In front of a judge (at least in the U.S.), you can state what you thought “may” should mean but in the absence of definition there wouldn’t be a leg to stand on. Their attorneys didn't choose the language they did accidentally.

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the legal principle is ambiguity in a contract benefits the party that did not draft it.
All throughout the unlocking process the word may is used implying under certain conditions the warranty would remain intact after the unlocking and this is not the case, that wouldn't bode well for HTC in court.
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Given the shambles of all this and HTC's view of customers and the ongoing issues of trying to dev on this phone. I fear this is the last HTC phone I will buy/have on contract. They'll only learn from their mistakes if you hit them hard where it hurts.. Their profits. To do that just don't buy any more phones from them.

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Try4Ce
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I am pretty much shocked.

1. HTC Dev states CLEARLY a "MAY VOID", not "WILL VOID". This is major.

2. Android stands for customizing and modding. Why do you think most Android phones are successful? Why do you think the Galaxy Nexus is so popular worldwide? Why do you think the Android OS slowly becomes the number one mobile OS in the world? Because you actually can do something with your phone instead of being held in a golden cage where the manufacturer tells you what to do with your effin expensive gadget.

3. HTC should really consider their sights on unlocking and rooting. Most manufacturers do give you the option freely without voiding the whole warranty. I wont just look away because HTC tells me "Too bad bro, thats how we roll!". There are enough other devices from many other good manufacturers (Google, Samsung, Huawei, Sony), where your warranty isnt completely voided if you root your device.

4. It's ridiculous to say "you can overclock your cpu with a rooted and unlocked device". First off, you need a custom kernel for that. Just an unlock and root doesnt count. Most people root to get more out of the system. I actually never overclocked my devices except for my already years old Motorola Milestone. All the other devices were kept at stock speeds. And for Tegra 3 1,5Ghz, I guess its totally not needed anymore to overclock, maybe underclock for better power management and less heat generation.

5. Android is open source, and therefore, we should be able to mod and root it to get the most out of our mobile experience with this amazing OS. Since its open source, Manufacturers shouldn't be able or shouldn't even think about telling us how to use their goddamn phones software wise (if it stays within the same mobile system). If they want otherwise, go develop your own damn mobile OS you can control. Nobody forces you to use Googles software.

6. As already said, this could become difficult for HTC to stand up in court, if it should come this far some day. They shouldn't be able to hide behind the fact of rooting and unlocking when there are obvious manufacturing issues or problems. What do have yellow display spots, broken cameras, faulty wlan modules, cracking cases, rattling vibration motors or screen distortions on pressure for example have to do with an unlocked bootloader or a rooted android system? I can understand the argument about a damaged chipset/cpu due to overclocking, but the rest?

If HTC sticks to that policy, the HTC One X will be the last HTC device for me and go back to Samsung (or maybe I will try out the next Nexus Device). I love my One X and all, but with manufacturer-issues like that and all that legal/illegal **** it got me thinking.
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N3m3515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Try4Ce View Post
I am pretty much shocked.

1. HTC Dev states CLEARLY a "MAY VOID", not "WILL VOID". This is major.

2. Android stands for customizing and modding. Why do you think most Android phones are successful? Why do you think the Galaxy Nexus is so popular worldwide? Why do you think the Android OS slowly becomes the number one mobile OS in the world? Because you actually can do something with your phone instead of being held in a golden cage where the manufacturer tells you what to do with your effin expensive gadget.

3. HTC should really consider their sights on unlocking and rooting. Most manufacturers do give you the option freely without voiding the whole warranty. I wont just look away because HTC tells me "Too bad bro, thats how we roll!". There are enough other devices from many other good manufacturers (Google, Samsung, Huawei, Sony), where your warranty isnt completely voided if you root your device.

4. It's ridiculous to say "you can overclock your cpu with a rooted and unlocked device". First off, you need a custom kernel for that. Just an unlock and root doesnt count. Most people root to get more out of the system. I actually never overclocked my devices except for my already years old Motorola Milestone. All the other devices were kept at stock speeds. And for Tegra 3 1,5Ghz, I guess its totally not needed anymore to overclock, maybe underclock for better power management and less heat generation.

5. Android is open source, and therefore, we should be able to mod and root it to get the most out of our mobile experience with this amazing OS. Since its open source, Manufacturers shouldn't be able or shouldn't even think about telling us how to use their goddamn phones software wise (if it stays within the same mobile system). If they want otherwise, go develop your own damn mobile OS you can control. Nobody forces you to use Googles software.

6. As already said, this could become difficult for HTC to stand up in court, if it should come this far some day. They shouldn't be able to hide behind the fact of rooting and unlocking when there are obvious manufacturing issues or problems. What do have yellow display spots, broken cameras, faulty wlan modules, cracking cases, rattling vibration motors or screen distortions on pressure for example have to do with an unlocked bootloader or a rooted android system? I can understand the argument about a damaged chipset/cpu due to overclocking, but the rest?

If HTC sticks to that policy, the HTC One X will be the last HTC device for me and go back to Samsung (or maybe I will try out the next Nexus Device). I love my One X and all, but with manufacturer-issues like that and all that legal/illegal **** it got me thinking.
+1 if they dont go back to a customer friendly policy i will change my prefered manufacturer

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Read what evo1rs has posted. They will repair your faulty screen under warranty but to do so, they will restore your phone to warranty condition (which is a fancy way of saying that you'll have to pay for a new motherboard).

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ewok666
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Originally Posted by tkolev View Post
I'm not being rude. We are all adults and as such we should take responsibility for our actions. Unfortunately this whole conversation is begining to look like "why didn't they told me I sholdn't dry my cat in the microwave? Arrrrgh I'm so angry, I'll sue them!"
When HTC locked the bootloader in the first place, many of us said "we know why you did that, but we feel we should be given a choice" and HTC listened. Those were the terms of the deal - unlocking the bootloader = voiding the warranty. It's our choice to make. I guess HTC made up that "you may loose your warranty" just to stay within the law. Also apparently they charge you for the restoration of your phone to factory condition not for the repair (if they are still covered by the warranty). Imagine the following situation: max operation temp of the CPU is 90 degrees. Due to the manufacturing process different units have max operational temp of 85 - 95 degrees. So to be safe nVidia made it stop at 80. HTC uses screens that have max operational temp of 75 - 85 degrees depending on the unit. So they cut the max phone temperature at 70. You flash another ROM. It doesn't stop at 70 and you are fine because you got a screen that operates well till 85 degrees and you never go that high because of the hardware failsafe inside the CPU. Then a pixel dies. HTC replaces the screen with a unit that has max temp of 75 (note that this is still within the manufacturing tolerace specified by whoever makes them). Then your custom ROM fries the screen because it operates above its max operational temp. Who is to blame?

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Total nonsense ! Why do some people just love to bend over for HTC and even try to justify this BS?

I have not read a single post where someone complained about bricking the phone and then HTC not repairing it under warranty . I've read plenty that ask why faulty buttons might not be replaced under warranty even if the boot loader is unlocked. The whole discussion is pointless until someone challenges HTC in court.....if it ever comes to this.

The website is ANYTHING but clear on this and that's very misleading. If they void all warranty then they could at least spell this out.

I remember the days when pc makers put stupid labels on their boxes and told you the warranty was void if you opened them ....... And we all know how that ended.

All we're asking for is for them to be reasonable. At this point they should be less concerned with a few handsets that may end up dead through rooting ( have not even heard of this happening) and focus on the large number of faults still present.






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