Now, I just about completed the project, but I dropped the motherboard and broke it while soldering a wire onto it. I've just bought another KF off of ebay and will continue at that point, but while i'm waiting I need some advice/help.
I've made a diagram of what i'm going to do. It's pretty horrible, but I think it's understandable.
Few questions that go with the diagram:
*DC only flows one way, do I need the diodes?
*If I should use the diodes will these work? (max output they would need to withstand would be 7v and 1A cause of the wall charger)
*The wall charger puts out 1000mA(1A) when charging. USB puts out 100mA, would that 1A ruin the adapter since it's designed for USB? If so, should I use some resistors?(Unsure cause they would change the regular, lower output to the adapter)(Or the resistors could be put into the charger)
*More questions/concerns on the diagram
I'm still a bit fuzzy on what's going on here.
I'm not sure what the (2) 3.7V batteries and the 4.4V boards are.
Is that the stock Kindle Fire power supply that you are showing?
Th first question: Have you gotten the USB SD card to work normally plugged in externally?
If not, have you gotten the USB SD card to work through a powered hub?
All the diodes on the black lines are drawn backwards.
You don't need any diodes there or even a reed switch on the black line.
You might have a problem activating the 4 (remaining) reed switches simultaneously and reliably.
If you've never seen voltage out of the KF USB connector, that means that you've not gotten it into USB host mode.
Oh, of course the KF has a single 3.7V battery so I don't know what that whole right side is doing.
I'm still a bit fuzzy on what's going on here.
I'm not sure what the (2) 3.7V batteries and the 4.4V boards are.
Is that the stock Kindle Fire power supply that you are showing?
Th first question: Have you gotten the USB SD card to work normally plugged in externally?
If not, have you gotten the USB SD card to work through a powered hub?
All the diodes on the black lines are drawn backwards.
You don't need any diodes there or even a reed switch on the black line.
You might have a problem activating the 4 (remaining) reed switches simultaneously and reliably.
If you've never seen voltage out of the KF USB connector, that means that you've not gotten it into USB host mode.
Oh, of course the KF has a single 3.7V battery so I don't know what that whole right side is doing.
The battery is made up of two 3.7v batteries, they just stuck them together and put a board there to control the power flow or whatever. I said it's lowered to 4.4v cause normally when two batteries are put together their voltage gets added together, but that 4.4v is coming from the very end pins, there are 10 total. I get 4.4v when trying the other pins too, so since i'm only connecting it to one set of pins i'm just going with 4.4v.
No, I haven't. I have not been able to successfully get USB host working at all, even with a USB host cable. I don't have a powered hub, but I tried taking the power from a USB port on my computer and that didn't work either. Other people have it working though, some with powered hubs, and a few without.
It might have just been my Kindle, so i'll see when I get the other Kindle I ordered.
I thought I was doing them backwards, I know how they go on physically, but I wasn't sure about on paper.
I'm not sure that i'll need all the reed switches, I may just need two; one to disconnect the ID(blue wire) from the back, and one to disconnect one of the data lines. I wasn't able to experiment though since I never got USB host working.
I tried measuring the voltage directly on the board and from the USB host cable and didn't a reading from either.(When I measured on the board I shorted out the ID an GND wires like they are on a USB host cable)
What I was trying to do with the battery there was prevent power from the charger going directly to the battery, that would be bad. So I do need at least one diode on each line there, but the other two I added cause I didn't want any extra power to be wasted. Of course, it doesn't make much sense to me(not sure what I was thinking), that's why I asked if it was necessary.
Picture of the battery and the board connected to it. I took it apart and removed the second one to move it over and resolder it so there was space down the middle for the wires. The adapter will be at the top where the speakers are.
Taking power directly off the battery is not a good idea for many reasons,
the least of which is that many (most?) USB devices won't work on 4.4 volt.
Throw in a silicon diode and you're down a further 0.7 volts.
Ok, you could make it a Schottky diode if you want.
You're still going to have to disconnect both data lines to get this to work,
unless you are planning to only use the external USB connector for charging.
Using host mode, the power should be coming out of the USB interface.
As mentioned, if you don't have it there, it's not working.
Taking power directly off the battery is not a good idea for many reasons,
the least of which is that many (most?) USB devices won't work on 4.4 volt.
Throw in a silicon diode and you're down a further 0.7 volts.
Ok, you could make it a Schottky diode if you want.
You're still going to have to disconnect both data lines to get this to work,
unless you are planning to only use the external USB connector for charging.
Using host mode, the power should be coming out of the USB interface.
As mentioned, if you don't have it there, it's not working.
Taking power straight from the battery is only a temporary solution, the devs working on the 3.0 kernel is working on fixing the OTG issues and trying to remove the kernel limit of 3v. Also, from what I understand there are other issues that the KF is having regulating the voltage out, people report that below 50% battery USB host stops working.
So, if the issues get fixed i'll just disconnect the battery, or, as I said before, it may have just been my Kindle. I got it used & broken and fixed it myself, so it may have been damaged more than I was aware. I would be able to provide more definitive answers if I had something to experiment with, but I won't have the other Kindle for a few days.
Also, since i'll have a second battery now, i'm not as worried about the battery being damaged.
I do realize that the diodes drop the voltage by .7v, but people who have USB host working report that the KF is putting out 3.3v, and some people have gotten certain flash drives and other devices to work off of that. I believe the microsd adapter I have will work off of that lower voltage.
I only charge using a wall adapter, and charging did work for me as long as the ID and GND cables were separated. My main concern is that adb and fastboot work since i'll just be transferring files to the Kindle and the sdcard with FTP. Which, if adb works so will mass storage, so...
Without using the battery it's just and internal OTG USB host set up with a switch/es, so in theory it should work.
I also don't need and diodes if it's not connected to the battery. I was just hooking it up to the battery cause I wasn't getting any power from the Kindle.
As for the reed switches not working reliably, I did read something before that said that they might screw each other up if they were all right next to each other. What if they were lined up end to end, would they interfere with each other like that? If they do work properly end to end all I need is a custom, long, slender, and rectangular neodymium magnet.
Again, I didn't really have much time to experiment since gravity and I screwed up my motherboard. I had just done some physical modding to the housing and framing to make space for everything, and done some testing on the voltages that it was putting out.
The Nook Touch that I have uses a TPS65921 (a/k/a TWL4030) which uses a charge pump
and is speced for 5.0V and guaranteed for 50 to 100 mA depending on battery voltage. http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/swcs048f/swcs048f.pdf page 16
I've seen some devices that won't even work at 4.5V
Keyboards generally draw about 5mA.
I've seen audio adapters at 25 mA.
Some thumb drives take a lot of current.
Keeping the red connected all the time may or may not be a problem.
An inactive USB device should not be drawing much (any?) current, but you can never tell.
Bottom line, I don't think that the KF is a very good candidate for stand-alone OTG.
I'd use a powered (and back-powering) hub if I owned a KF.
I don't know what's going on here.. but I corrected your power supply in the schematic above.
I ignore PMs with questions that could be answered by searching. If you PM me, I probly won't respond.
Check out my developer pages. Add me to your circles on Google Plus.
The Nook Touch that I have uses a TPS65921 (a/k/a TWL4030) which uses a charge pump
and is speced for 5.0V and guaranteed for 50 to 100 mA depending on battery voltage. http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/swcs048f/swcs048f.pdf page 16
I've seen some devices that won't even work at 4.5V
Keyboards generally draw about 5mA.
I've seen audio adapters at 25 mA.
Some thumb drives take a lot of current.
Keeping the red connected all the time may or may not be a problem.
An inactive USB device should not be drawing much (any?) current, but you can never tell.
Bottom line, I don't think that the KF is a very good candidate for stand-alone OTG.
I'd use a powered (and back-powering) hub if I owned a KF.
Thanks for the info, I cut open a cable and plugged it into my computer with a resistor hooked up to it and got the voltage down to about 3.4v and the adapter that i'm using still ran and was recognized. I'm unsure about the current though.
It's not really OTG if it has to be hooked up to a separate power supply :/
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamOutler
I don't know what's going on here.. but I corrected your power supply in the schematic above.
I don't understand why i'd need a 5v regulator on the battery when it's only putting out 4.4v? (Again, current-wise i'm unsure)
Also, the ID wire(blue) needs to be connected to the GND to activate USB host mode, it tells the device that it's a master and not a slave.
And I don't know if you read my previous posts, but I may not even be using the battery if I can get USB host working like everyone else. And the diodes were there cause I didn't want power going directly to the battery since it could mess it up.
Well, your circuit is wrong in a bunch of different ways so I redesigned it.
0. USB requires 5V regulated power.
1. the ground diodes are pointing the wrong way so the power would not flow.
2. When charging the battery you'd kill your device
3. zener diodes breakover at a certain voltage, not regulate. Those zener would just prevent any voltage from flowing. You'd want a Silicone Controlled Rectifier.
4. The 2 extra diodes do nothing at all in your circuit.
5. Each diode drops .7V. Your circuit effectively uses 4 of them between power and ground from the battery. so, by the end of your circuit, the microSD adapter gets 1.6 volts.... no where near what's required to run the device.
So, I corrected the circuit.
Didn't read that you were using any other method, still havn't.. Just wanted to correct the circuit in case someone else tries to do it.
I ignore PMs with questions that could be answered by searching. If you PM me, I probly won't respond.
Check out my developer pages. Add me to your circles on Google Plus.
Given the amount of coverage that Android receives around here, you could almost be … more
XDA Developers was founded by developers, for developers. It is now a valuable resource for people who want to make the most of their mobile devices, from customizing the look and feel to adding new functionality. Are you a developer?
Introducing XDA:DevCon – A Conference For Developers By Developers
>
Need some help from someone who knows legit electronics(diodes, resistors, etc.)
Print
Email
Need some help from someone who knows legit electronics(diodes, resistors, etc.)
View Profile
View Forum Posts
Follow on Google+
View Facebook page
Follow on Twitter
View GitHub profile
Linear Mode
