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[All XDA Members] Feedback/Recommendations for XDA

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By Fallen Spartan, Senior Moderator / Moderator Committee Retired- Irish Pride, Spartan Legacy on 12th November 2012, 11:59 AM
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13th November 2012, 02:21 AM |#11  
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-gary

While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.

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13th November 2012, 03:13 AM |#12  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt. slaughter

-gary

While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.

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There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
13th November 2012, 03:45 AM |#13  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinbeau

There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.

Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...

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13th November 2012, 03:53 AM |#14  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt. slaughter

Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...

Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?


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13th November 2012, 04:22 AM |#15  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyd9

Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?


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Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...

It is absolutely impossible to have purely 100% code talk in the dev sections. The size of the userbase is way too large for the mod team to regulate that.

Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.

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13th November 2012, 12:44 PM |#16  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt. slaughter

Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
...
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.

You may be right, but I don't want to consider the possibility that XDA-Developers might become a non-developers forums. If your suggestion is carried out, I'd predict that it'd slowly (but surely) lose it's developer core and become more and more another "android central" or other generic handheld forum.

My reasoning is simple: XDA doesn't give birth to developers - they are born and bred before they get here. However, you're suggesting that they won't have a place to "talk shop" here unless and until they achieve RD status, which I'm assuming involves a certain application and requires that some projects have already been hawked here on XDA. I'm making some assumptions about RD here, but I think it'd be fairly safe to assume that a person can't submit a professional non-XDA resume to get it. As well, you are also always going to have some devs that simply refuse to "apply" for what they consider a "silly title." More especially those that see "ROM cooks" called RD and look the other way.

What is a real developer going to do in that case? Simple: find someplace else to talk shop.

(It's almost comical the way I talk about RD here. I've been doing professional dev for a very long, have given back to the android and ppc communities, and been an XDA member for a long time - but never bothered with RD status here when the program started. So, I honestly don't know what it might involve. I might be wrong about any type of requirements.)

I guess this question moves beyond my suggestions. I've been basing things on a developer-centric forum. That's what XDA-Developers was when I joined, and quite a few FAQ's we point users to indicate that it's still intended to be. If XDA is going to move away from that, then please disregard my suggestions.

Take care
Gary
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13th November 2012, 01:01 PM |#17  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt. slaughter

Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...

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Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?

Quote:
Originally Posted by garyd9

Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?


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Exactly.
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13th November 2012, 02:39 PM |#18  
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It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.

Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.

Thanks
Gary
13th November 2012, 02:42 PM |#19  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyd9

It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.

Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.

Thanks
Gary

For the time being I'm inclined to let the discussion continue in this thread as there isn't much else being discussed here atm. If more idea's/recommendations appear, we can then create a new thread....if needed. Also, if a set way has been agreed on a particular idea/recommendation, I can create a second post updating users so its not lost within the thread
13th November 2012, 05:53 PM |#20  
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Lightbulb Making room for real developers again
Quote:
Originally Posted by reinbeau

Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?

Exactly.

Hello,

I am one of those professional developers in real life, who don't have the time to play silly points games just to get access to the developer part of a forum. So my "XDA status" is stuck at "noob", but I am really here to look for a place to share technical discussion with other developers.

Looking around (I have been lurking for years now), I think the following improved structure would be a good idea:

In each area (General, OS, device) there should be 4 development subforums rather than the current 1 or 2:

1. Firmware and theme releases.
One thread for each firmware/theme series, hosting download links in the top 3 posts, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Samsung Galaxy III "Firmware and theme releases" forum would have exactly one "Cyanogenmod" thread and at most one "Cyanogenmod kang by temasek" thread.

Real cooks can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.

2. Free App releases.
One thread for each free app, hosting download links in the top 3 ports, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Free App releases forum would have exactly one "ROM Manager" thread.

Real developers can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.

3. Unreleased experiments
One thread for each unreleased firmware/theme/free app, hosting only discussion of what should go into it, difficulties in making it etc. When released the thread is moved to 1 or 2 as appropriate, at the thread OPs command.

Only real cooks and real developers can post here, there is a limit on new threads per user per month depending on the posters general standing.

4. Developer to Developer
This hosts regular forum style discussion threads where developers for that target (OS/phone) can ask each other questions about technical details for the target, one thread per subject matter, no threads about specific projects. This is the place to discuss stuff like ("Which wceload variants are in which upstream firmwares" in a WM forum or "How are the GPIO pins on the SoC connected to other parts of the phone (in a phone specific forum) or "How does the foo() API work" (in an OS forum)).

Only real cooks and real developers can post here.

Determining access:

Now as to determining the "real cook" and "real developer" status of a user, there could be a quiz and a number of extrinsic tests for each OS. Quiz questions would be multiple choice that a real cook/devel would answer easily, but a poser would get wrong. Other tests could be "prove that you have a developer account on Market/AppStore/OVI/Marketplace" "Show that you can sign an empty sis/cab/etc. with a valid developer certificate" Because getting a new certificate/account for some of the platforms may no longer be possible or may be otherwise restricted, such
tests would just count as N correct quiz answers in determining the pass/fail.
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13th November 2012, 06:32 PM |#21  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_wisemo

In each area (General, OS, device) there should be 4 development subforums rather than the current 1 or 2:

In your suggestion, where would kernels go? With firmware/themes?
Quote:

2. Free App releases.

I don't think we'd want this per device...
Quote:

4. Developer to Developer

+1
Quote:

Determining access:

I don't think the "quiz" thing would work. I have to be honest that I don't know of a good way to determine if a random person is a dev or not. A "test" can be faked - knowing the answers to some preset questions doesn't mean the person knows anything beyond the answers to those preset questions. Even infinite knowledge doesn't imply any skill.

Links to projects is a poor test, as there any limitless cases even here on XDA of "firmware releases" that, when looked at carefully, are really just re-releases of another persons work (or a kang of 2-3 other projects.) For example, it's trivial to release a straight AOSP android version for any device that cyanogenmod supports. Doing so doesn't imply any dev skills whatsoever. (Does XDA have a "recognized kang'er" title?)

Referrals from other devs or even from ERD's can become a popularity test

Having accounts with developer programs is also a poor test: At the company I currently work for, our Product Dev VP holds the accounts in his name, but he's NOT a developer. As well, in most cases, those types of accounts are available to anyone willing to waste the money on them (in some cases to get beta releases of iOS, for example.)

I know that I can sit face to face with a job candidate and determine if they are a faker or not, but I do that by looking at their resume and then asking them completely non-development related questions to figure out if they think like a developer or not. (Even that isn't flawless.) People with the skills to develop tend to think differently.

<sidebar>

Another amusing test used to be to ask "What platform was 'Pascal' originally designed to run on?" - the proper answer was: "none - it was a teaching tool" (much as Knuth had his grape80 platform.) An acceptable answer was "I don't know, which platform?" Anyone taking guesses wouldn't be hired: If you can't admit you don't know something, then you won't be able to learn.

</sidebar>

Determining who is and isn't a "real" developer is a problem, and I think it is (or perhaps "was") a problem even here on XDA. I discussed this with a few individuals (and is actually one of the reasons I never applied: I didn't want to be grouped with some of the riff-raff who have been given "RD" here.) However, I never brought that up in public as I can't think of any reasonable solution.

(That means I'm not complaining about it here. I'm merely recognizing the issue exists, as well as recognizing that there might not be a good solution.)

Actually, at least for kernel devs, there is a good way to "test" them: Get a gun and shoot them in the foot. If they smile in familiarity, then they are real.
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