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garyd9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_wisemo View Post
In each area (General, OS, device) there should be 4 development subforums rather than the current 1 or 2:
In your suggestion, where would kernels go? With firmware/themes?
Quote:
2. Free App releases.
I don't think we'd want this per device...
Quote:
4. Developer to Developer
+1
Quote:
Determining access:
I don't think the "quiz" thing would work. I have to be honest that I don't know of a good way to determine if a random person is a dev or not. A "test" can be faked - knowing the answers to some preset questions doesn't mean the person knows anything beyond the answers to those preset questions. Even infinite knowledge doesn't imply any skill.

Links to projects is a poor test, as there any limitless cases even here on XDA of "firmware releases" that, when looked at carefully, are really just re-releases of another persons work (or a kang of 2-3 other projects.) For example, it's trivial to release a straight AOSP android version for any device that cyanogenmod supports. Doing so doesn't imply any dev skills whatsoever. (Does XDA have a "recognized kang'er" title?)

Referrals from other devs or even from ERD's can become a popularity test

Having accounts with developer programs is also a poor test: At the company I currently work for, our Product Dev VP holds the accounts in his name, but he's NOT a developer. As well, in most cases, those types of accounts are available to anyone willing to waste the money on them (in some cases to get beta releases of iOS, for example.)

I know that I can sit face to face with a job candidate and determine if they are a faker or not, but I do that by looking at their resume and then asking them completely non-development related questions to figure out if they think like a developer or not. (Even that isn't flawless.) People with the skills to develop tend to think differently.

<sidebar>

Another amusing test used to be to ask "What platform was 'Pascal' originally designed to run on?" - the proper answer was: "none - it was a teaching tool" (much as Knuth had his grape80 platform.) An acceptable answer was "I don't know, which platform?" Anyone taking guesses wouldn't be hired: If you can't admit you don't know something, then you won't be able to learn.

</sidebar>

Determining who is and isn't a "real" developer is a problem, and I think it is (or perhaps "was") a problem even here on XDA. I discussed this with a few individuals (and is actually one of the reasons I never applied: I didn't want to be grouped with some of the riff-raff who have been given "RD" here.) However, I never brought that up in public as I can't think of any reasonable solution.

(That means I'm not complaining about it here. I'm merely recognizing the issue exists, as well as recognizing that there might not be a good solution.)

Actually, at least for kernel devs, there is a good way to "test" them: Get a gun and shoot them in the foot. If they smile in familiarity, then they are real.

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garyd9
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Default a question for moving forward...

We (older members, moderators, etc) tend to answer questions with links to rules posts, guides to new users, etc. One of the links I see passed around quite often (and is even quoted in the "new users" guide is this one:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...9&postcount=45

This post is almost poetic in trying to describe development and makes some points about XDA that, I believe, were always at the foundation of the forum.

However, is this still true? Is that still the purpose of XDA?

The question isn't sarcastic and has no motive. I think it's a question that those who guide the forum's future should ask themselves in determining how to move forward.

I do see that the ERD's tend to embrace the "HOW TO" and "interactive development" approach much more often than others. Perhaps that's why XDA singled them out. If so, then its promising from my point of view (as I tend to favor the concepts in that linked post.)

Take care
Gary

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boborone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyd9 View Post
We (older members, moderators, etc) tend to answer questions with links to rules posts, guides to new users, etc. One of the links I see passed around quite often (and is even quoted in the "new users" guide is this one:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...9&postcount=45

This post is almost poetic in trying to describe development and makes some points about XDA that, I believe, were always at the foundation of the forum.

However, is this still true? Is that still the purpose of XDA?

The question isn't sarcastic and has no motive. I think it's a question that those who guide the forum's future should ask themselves in determining how to move forward.

I do see that the ERD's tend to embrace the "HOW TO" and "interactive development" approach much more often than others. Perhaps that's why XDA singled them out. If so, then its promising from my point of view (as I tend to favor the concepts in that linked post.)

Take care
Gary
Thank you. In an attempt to be more PC, I think we have let the whole idea of being kind and gentle let ruin the idea of learning and teaching. This place is getting out of the fostering development arena and getting more and more into the fostering support arena. Before I joined, I used to come here and read all about modding WinMo. Now you come here and you read about what to do to Android, but not what it does, or how it does it. Then there are 100 questions after the op asking for support. I get so tired of hearing times change and you have to deal with it. That's just as tired as you were once a noob too. Sht people need to learn to read. Seriously spartan, how many times do you see people in the mod request thread complaining about 10post rule cause they can't ask a question in development? It's a support site now.

/rant

BTW, awesome idea for a thread. Thanks.
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mfsr98
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Maybe adding something like allowing posts before they showing up on the thread by the thread creator. For example, you go to your thread and check if you want some posts to show up there.
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garyd9
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Originally Posted by boborone View Post
Thank you. In an attempt to be more PC, I think we have let the whole idea of being kind and gentle let ruin the idea of learning and teaching. This place is getting out of the fostering development arena and getting more and more into the fostering support arena.
...
Sht people need to learn to read. Seriously spartan, how many times do you see people in the mod request thread complaining about 10post rule cause they can't ask a question in development? It's a support site now.
How would you suggest to solve the problem?

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boborone
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Originally Posted by garyd9 View Post
How would you suggest to solve the problem?
I've thought about this before. And before xda university came out, I thought the only way would be to flame noobs like we did in past to post something useful or not at all. But now I think a very close tie and relationship with xdau when it comes out may be the only way. I have no involvement in it, but I hope that a strong emphasis is put on a section for dev talk and dev talk only. We have gone too far for a push to PC that even WIP threads titled devs only still gets posts from noobs asking questions. Even like you mentioned, devs like general banter in their threads now cause it keeps it on the front page and therefore more donations. Dev is secluded to irc and PMs. It needs to be brought in the open and the competition for the best mod needs to stop. We need more collaboration, even with new intelligent members to Foster innovation. I hope that's what xdau brings. And a close and strong tie between the two sites may help tremendously.

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KidCarter93
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^^^I've just quoted part of your post and passed it to pulser. I cut it all out apart from the dev talk bit, as that's the main point of it. Hopefully if it's not something that's already being added, it's something that will now be implemented.


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boborone
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^^^I've just quoted part of your post and passed it to pulser. I cut it all out apart from the dev talk bit, as that's the main point of it. Hopefully if it's not something that's already being added, it's something that will now be implemented.


''Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but absolute powerlessness does the same''
I didn't know pulser had a hand in it. I have faith now that it will something. Not that I didn't think much of it before, I was excited at it's announcement, but I know he's an old school guy who likes dev discussion and collaboration.

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KidCarter93
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Originally Posted by boborone View Post
I didn't know pulser had a hand in it. I have faith now that it will something. Not that I didn't think much of it before, I was excited at it's announcement, but I know he's an old school guy who likes dev discussion and collaboration.

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Yeah he's the one who posted about xda-u in rc forum, so it's just in there that I've left my post. He'll see it later today or tomorrow anyway.
I do think it has a great chance of being implemented though because judging from the discussions brought on mainly by garyd9, a lot of members and mods have thought it's a brilliant idea.


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garyd9
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(Last edited by garyd9; 14th November 2012 at 10:09 PM.) Reason: tried to clarify my "practice what I preach" comment
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That's interesting. This thread is the first time I've heard of "XDA University." (I stopped reading the homepage long ago due to some.. umm.. low quality posts - and the refusal of the poster to correct issues.)

Anyway, XDAU appears similar to something I'm trying to do with my posts in the i317 section: Instead of posting finished work, I'm posting things that explain what I'm doing, why, etc.

Sometime in the next week (when my paying job eases up a bit) I'll be starting a new kernel. However, instead of a "Here's a kernel that does wonderful things", I was thinking of starting with a stock samsung kernel and documenting for people how to get it from github, how to compile it, how to set up the ramdisk, etc.

Then, a little bit a time, modify the kernel while explaining what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, how I'm doing it, etc.

I'm sure many people will think it's a waste of space and bandwidth, but if 2 out of 100 people find it worthwhile and learn something, then I've done more good then 1000 different "Use MyKewlROMandDonateToMe" threads.

I suspect it'll be other developer-type who will find it most useful. There are lots of people who are skilled enough to do this kind of thing, but aren't quite sure how to get started with it. As well, I'm bitching that XDA has too many threads "selling" firmware and kernels and very few discussing - so I had better practice what I preach.

(I also intend to keep the kernel modifications fairly limited and even regressive in some cases to keep it a learning and discussion tool and NOT a product.)

Take care
Gary

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