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nVidia Grid on Nexus 7

9th January 2013, 10:54 PM   |  #11  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal1ty_18_RUS

So, as I understand, to use Grid you must not only have a more or less fast Wi-Fi connection (or mobile network if it allows it), but also have a device powerful enough to decode the picture being streamed from the server/your PC, right?

I've seen a couple of vids with the above-mentioned Splashtop GamePad THD - and it runs with noticeably less framerate than it does on the PC that the app was demonstated with

It's kinda strange though, because unlike Grid and Splashtop - the OnLive required to have only a fast enough internet connection which bandwith would allow to process the stream from the server, and the technology didn't require you to have a powerful hardware, meaning that you could even run things like Battlefiled 3 with maximum quality on a 5 year old PC

So why did NVidia decie to go the other way around?

More or less every device today is able to manage (encode/decode) a H.264 stream so basically the "requirements" for the client device are not so strict (I'd say similar to OnLive indeed. Consider that having a compressed stream means less bandwidth used, on the other hand a decent CPU is needed to handle the task). The main difference is about that the THD version is specifically optimized to use one core of Tegra 3 just for the decoding process. Talking about the framerate of splashtop, I'll measure it somehow (I need the GF reflex but i'll try with a phone ), however I never noticed so much difference between the 2 devices (assuming that I have an intel core-i5 + GTX 670 and a DGND3700).

To be completely honest, however, I didn't even noticed a difference between the THD version and the "Splashtop 2 version on the nexus 7 (Splashtop 2 is free so is worth a try and compatible with a wide range of devices).

May I ask you to link the video you watched to see if the different framerate could be relevant to some particular environment?
9th January 2013, 11:17 PM   |  #12  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimoxTav

May I ask you to link the video you watched to see if the different framerate could be relevant to some particular environment?

I watched this video, the official one from Splashtop YouTube channel:



You can easily notice that even streaming a movie lacks the framerate compared to the original shown on the PC
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9th January 2013, 11:40 PM   |  #13  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal1ty_18_RUS

I watched this video, the official one from Splashtop YouTube channel:

...cut...

You can easily notice that even streaming a movie lacks the framerate compared to the original shown on the PC


Yeah I'd say the difference is crystal clear. Probably for Grid/Project Shield they improved their codec to grant a smoother output (nVidia Italy said something related to it on Facebook (Link)

Quote:

Quanto mostrato Ť una evoluzione di questa tecnologia, ancora a livello prototipale, quindi purtroppo non siamo in grado di risponderti con precisione, non essendo neppure noi a conoscenza dei dettagli

Translated:

As shown is an evolution of this technology (Note: Splashtop), still at prototype level, so unfortunately we are unable to answer precisely, since neither are we aware of the details

I recorded on the fly a video for BF3, both server and client are connected via wifi (this isn't the optimal scenario but due the distance I can't move the desktop around the house). Talking about numbers there are no excuses and even on side by side comparison the difference is noticeable; however taken each one singly, the experience is IMHO enjoyable). Tomorrow I'll try with Splashtop 2 the same test (that one comes from a different developing branch, more recent than THD so maybe there will be improvements)

Video

FYI:
I used the render.drawfps call on BF3 (embedded in the engine) and FPS Meter on Android so was easy to see their framerates side by side. On PC the game is configured on Ultra with Vsync so no more than 60fps.
Last edited by SimoxTav; 9th January 2013 at 11:42 PM.
9th January 2013, 11:43 PM   |  #14  
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Does the in-game graphics setting have an influence on the framerate of the streamed picture?
10th January 2013, 12:02 AM   |  #15  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal1ty_18_RUS

Does the in-game graphics setting have an influence on the framerate of the streamed picture?

For this i quote what Eurogamer stated during the faceoff between OnLive and Gaikai (that should be based on Grid servers) (Source)

Quote:

Improved visual quality server-side also has ramifications for video compression. Hard edges with no anti-aliasing will be harder to encode than a richer, smoother picture derived from the game running on higher graphics settings - after all, these video compressors were designed with real life footage in mind, not raw game visuals.

So better compression means lower bandwidth, however the framerate of both the stream and the server play a big role.

Quote:

Basically, fewer unique frames (60FPS) means less work for the compressor to deal with when encoding the video stream. From another perspective, dropping down to 30FPS also provides double the amount of bandwidth for image quality and thus delivers overall clarity closer to the experience of gaming on local hardware.

10th January 2013, 12:13 AM   |  #16  
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IMO 30FPS is mostly enough, though for fast paced racing and fighting games 60FPS is a must. Especially for fightings.

I believe that if we use a game with less graphics-heavy vicuals - then the stream should be pretty smooth, right?

Like, let's say, games like Diablo II, StarCraft, WarCraft III and Trackmania/Trackmania: Sunrise should work pretty nice
10th January 2013, 12:33 AM   |  #17  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal1ty_18_RUS

IMO 30FPS is mostly enough, though for fast paced racing and fighting games 60FPS is a must. Especially for fightings.

I believe that if we use a game with less graphics-heavy vicuals - then the stream should be pretty smooth, right?

Like, let's say, games like Diablo II, StarCraft, WarCraft III and Trackmania/Trackmania: Sunrise should work pretty nice

Yeah, but more than graphics visuals details, their fast pace gameplay is the worst for this kind of technology.



However it seems that with grid the performance are clearly better

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10th January 2013, 12:46 AM   |  #18  
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Did they specify if this was going to be a monthly subscription type deal or a pay for the games and what not like onlive?
10th January 2013, 01:24 AM   |  #19  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ‹BERô

Did they specify if this was going to be a monthly subscription type deal or a pay for the games and what not like onlive?

I don't think that NVidia can afford to run a service like this (imagine how much resources they need to provide this streaming, especially in a perfect state)
Look at what happened to OnLive

So probably it's gonna be, like, 10-15$ a month or so, not too much (like if you'd rent a game from a shop like GameStop or such) and multiplied by the number of NVidia-powered devices (including phones, tablets and computers/notebooks/etc) - it's gonna bring some $$$ for the company
10th January 2013, 07:56 AM   |  #20  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ‹BERô

Did they specify if this was going to be a monthly subscription type deal or a pay for the games and what not like onlive?

Their GRID architecture for cloud will be sold to third parties (Playcast, Ubitus, etc) and nVidia will not provide its own service directly. However talking on the LAN side of the application, it should be promoted and supported directly by nVidia (even if for now is shown as a "Shield only" feature) but I expect to see it at least on "all" Tegra devices (due the fact that if the service can work on the cloud, make it working on LAN is surely easier.

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grid, nexus 7, nvidia, splashtop thd, streaming
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