xda-developers ROM image archive will be taken down

[Peter Poelman]

For years and years, xda-developers has offered access to a collection of ROM images for 'our' phones. These images, often released by mobile carriers or device resellers, contained a version of the Microsoft Windows Mobile OS (or one of its predecessors) as well as customization added by one or more OEMs in the chain.

Offering these ROMs has been an invaluable resource to many developers and enthousiasts. Every once in a while someone uploaded an image that was not supposed to be released yet, but when Microsoft or someone else complained we immediately took it down. Recently Microsoft has begun to complain on a different level, asking us to remove _all_ the ROM images.

We've argued with them that although these ROM images contain Microsoft software, having them online in no way hurts Microsoft's interests because Microsoft gets its money whenever anyone buys a device with their OS on it, and they do not stand to make any more money until the next device is bought.

Originally Posted by xda-developers I read your last mail. From reading it seems like Microsoft would like us to remove _any and all_ ROM images that have MS software inside of them, even if they are operator ROM images for any of the phones that our community has ever been interested in. If this is indeed the case then I would like to plead with you and your firm to please reconsider this. Our unique collection of ROM images is an extremely valuable resource for developers and enthousiasts trying to make the most out of their HTC phones. As you may be aware the product development cycle in this field is such that by the time a phone hits the market the OEM is already spending 99.9% of its resources on other phones. At present, both HTC and the MS developer programs for handheld devices sadly seem to ignore key needs of third-party developers. This is much unlike a desktop OS which might find development well supported for as much as a decade, and where the OEM doesn't add much custom stuff to the OS. Our community has played a key role in supporting the development of much software and many tools for these devices, thus in turn helping to sell many phones and thus many Windows Mobile licenses. IMHO the practical value of these ROM images for any meaningful infringement is virtually nil, since only a technically adept minority of users can use these images on hardware that has already had its Windows Mobile license fee paid. I fear that us taking these images offline would lead to sadness amongst the developer community, less development/enthousiasm for these devices and really not much else. As a side note we have in the past taken offline all images that contained 'test-versions' and/or unreleased copies of the OS or anything else that was a particular bother to MS, and we will continue to do so. I am a technical person and as such I do not have any legal training. But I suspect that from a legal standpoint you are probably fully within your right to demand that we remove _all_ the images. Nevertheless I hope the above will give you cause to reconsider. I am purposely not informing the community or making a public point out of this at this time because I know any public situation would probably force MS to take a legalistic stand just to avoid setting unfavorable precedent. I guess what it boils down to is this: I'm hoping that we can silently agree that the current situation, although admitably somewhat dodgy, fills an important niche and actually serves Microsoft's interests quite well for the time being.

They have responded to say that the availability of these ROM images is in fact causing problems and restating their request to take them all down.

Originally Posted by Microsoft Microsoft has limited redistribution policies in place for a number of products, from desktop applications like Office, to downloads such as Windows Media Player and Windows Live Messenger, to Windows Mobile products. The licensing terms for Windows Mobile products also varies between versions and is different for each device depending on the features included by the OEM. As you may know, Microsoft is dedicated to protecting its copyright and other intellectual property rights. I do know XDA-developers.com is home to many device enthusiasts; however I’m not in a position to debate the legitimacy of any specific piece of software hosted by this site. We have received feedback from several sources on the software hosted by XDA-developers, including mobile operators with customers requesting support on “unofficial ROM images” and media agencies reporting on unreleased ROM versions to name a few. From this feedback, legal review of the sites content, and misconceptions; we concluded we should inform you of the actual Microsoft policies through my original email. These policies are consistent for all non-licensed channels. We do appreciate the feedback you have given us in the past. I can assure you we have teams focused on improving Windows Mobile developer’s experiences and if you have additional feedback I encourage you to use the Microsoft developer newsgroups or I would be more than happy to forward this on. I regret that I’m the bearer of bad news, however we do appreciate your understanding of this matter and trust you will remove our content, including “ROM images” containing our content, as originally requested.

Ofcourse one can disagree over the severity of the problems caused by the availability of the images versus the impact to our community of simply removing everything. But at this point, we have no other option then to take down any and all ROM images that contain a Microsoft OS, although we still feel strongly this is a disservice not just to our own users but also to the larger community of mobile device developers and enthousiasts. But at the end of the day this is Microsoft's software and legally speaking, they are within their right to ask us to remove it. And even if there were legal ways to challenge this, we certainly do not feel like a protracted legal fight with Microsoft. They can probably afford more lawyers than we can.

Over the course of the next week, and with much pain in our hearts, we will be going over all the directories on the ftp server as well as all attachments to public messages to remove all the ROM images. We may or may not end up writing automated tools to remove the images.

A great resource dies this coming week. The vendor giveth, and the vendor taketh away.


Sad,

Peter Poelman

[Maarten_NL]

Legally microsoft is right... but I think they underestimate the value of a community like this, which also returns value back to them (bugs, fixes, features etc).

It's the same straight line thinking that you are pirating when you install a UK rom on your NL device.

it could be an idea to move to a newsgroup... ok, it's not as great as a FTP where older images are stored too, but it's something.

[iksiksiks]

yeah it's right but........no way ...a big loss....


THX BILL

PS- bill and now stop the p2p

[lmbranco]

I am not a fan of piracy, but i have to say that Microsoft is only creating more and more unfriendly situations for their users.
I have bought 2 windows mobile devices, and i have paid for the software, and now they tell me i cannot upgrade my software by the use of a Rom Image?
I guess rapidshare, megaupload and the likes of it will start to be flooded by Roms of Windows Mobile devices. You only get what you started...

This is a strong comunity, and i have to say that i don't see Microsoft winning a fight against a community that has provided so much to them, most of the Windows operating systems improvements are suggested by the people that really mess around with it, and now, we can't do it?

Legal, Illegal, Legal, Illegal, Legal, Illegal, all bulls**t.

P.S. i am glad i downloaded yesterday some of the Roms ;-)

[HDJ80]

My next phone edition must be one LINUX phone edition.
Bye bye Bill.

[Putra]

When I was debating between a Palm-based device or a Windows Mobile PPC many, many years ago, I came across xda-dev when surfing the net for opinions and comments between the 2 platforms. This site was the reason that converted me into a PPC enthusiast. I am just amazed at the resources available here. It will be sad day when all the ROMs are taken down. But I'm sure that many of the altruistic developers here will continue to tinker with their gadgets and post their amazing results somewhere...

[soul_train]

If they would have that much bug fixes and patches they would putt them all on their site. They are jealous becose they don't have that much fixes. This is pure shame.

Soul Train

[Des]

That was expected sooner or later. F@#cking m$. But there is another problem solving: move ftp (physically) out of m$ lawers casualty radius. If site administration find this way acceptable I'll look out if I can help.

[walshieau]

well i dont believe that microsoft is in their right... they license their product to HTC, DOPOD, IMATE, HP and all other distributors... even though its their intellectual property they should be chasing this up through their licensee's and not attacking the third wheel... its the licensee's fault for not providing a fool proof way to stop ROM extracting... we all know they have been trying ...im up for a fight though...i think this is b**l s**t why now, users know dam well that flashing their devices with non shipped update roms void the warranty...

[saminegm]

It is the same with my german vodafone mobile service provider. MS and Vodafone have millions of customers, they simply dont care if a few hundred are lost. There is no such thing like a valuable customer if you have millions of them. Maybe Linux (i hate it) is the answer.