Expansys Diamond Grey Market? Pulled Forum thread...

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Expansys pulled this thread from their forums - google cached it however, as such this is copied from google, not expansys

Have to agree with the last post....

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Are these units official UK stock or Grey imports?Expansys seem to selling the Touch Diamond before the official UK release date, are they grey imports?

If so whats the situation with regard to warrantee claims?

Thanks.


Posted 16:16 03 Jun 08 by mjheathcote
anitalg
19:36 03 Jun 08
8072 Posts

Forum Mummy
& child mind readerHi - please direct sales queries to the sales team via phone or email, we are trying to keep the technical support forum for technical support



Thanks

wardy
19:39 03 Jun 08
62 PostsAccording to some Pocket PC sites , they are Grey imports which means they are not Official UK sets if this is truth . So that £500 for a device without a warranty and known S/N on the Europe HTC site... could prove tricky for updates

As said above I would call customer services I'm sure they will tell you if they are imports or not . Personally I cant see it as I thought it would be against the law .

I've ordered mine from another site as its nearly 100 quid cheaper and its on the UK release date after reading the reports.



Ineedtoys
09:39 04 Jun 08
385 Posts@anitalq - if these units are grey imports then it is very much a support issue! Seems likely they are HK sourced as that's the only other place they were avaiable when Expansys got stock. Maybe Expansys can clarify?

Bear in mind they have offices worldwide so it's easy for them to transfer stock- they've had their knuckles rapped for doing it before (by HP).

However, the Product description does say "version: UK, GPS" so if they're not, then you're entitled to a refund under SoGA as it's mis-described. Don't leave it until you need the warranty though!





rolandratpig
10:01 04 Jun 08
3 PostsI did email them and my exchange server said they deleted the email without reading it. Anyway I thought grey imports where considered as counterfit in this country?
webheads
10:30 04 Jun 08
6 PostsMine has it's warranty and everything else you would expect

These appear to be for the UK market

Anoel
10:43 04 Jun 08
9 Posts
ManagerJust got my device for testing at work and these are Grey imports what a shame, getting charged over the odds for this device mine is going back, HTC have said the warranty will not be repaired here in the UK call them to find out, I had a long telephone call with them and they have said they will call expansys to get the website updated, The official UK units are not availiable at the present moment.
rolandratpig
11:13 04 Jun 08
3 PostsThats bad, this shouldn't be allowed. But in the UK we have the sale of goods act, under that act Expansys are ultimately responsible for any warranty claims as they sold it.

How did you tell that its grey import anyway, based on what HTC said?

hbaket
11:49 04 Jun 08
30 PostsI strongly believe that these concerns should be answered here on the forum, otherwise Expansys will be overwhelmed with returned devices for lack of warranty and a flood of calls to thier call center.


Emails/Calling sales desk is not effective from past experiences. If the devices are labeled as UK but they are not then this is false advertising and Expansys may end up facing legal ramifications.

regards,

HB

Yoni
13:49 04 Jun 08
5418 Posts

Tech, eXpansys Ltd
Manchester UKThe units are WWE and have full manufacturers warranty, eXpansys will handle any warranty repairs on your behalf as eXpansys would with any other HTC device.


Yoni,
eXpansys Product Support,
Forum Search

rolandratpig
14:05 04 Jun 08
3 PostsI guess panic over then!!
midsleic
14:56 04 Jun 08
2 PostsHowever, trying to get phone support from HTC or registering it on the HTC website fails.

HTC are very adament that they are not 'HTC branded' devices as they call them (yes I know it has it on the handset etc) but rather are for the network "NW-PCS" of Hong Kong.

Therefore if you were to try and get warranty support direct from HTC - you wouldn't get it!



This is an outrage and frankly Expansys should have been upfront about it.

Mr Butterworth himself went on record a couple of years ago saying that Expansys no longer grey import into the EU (which is illegal apparently) after they were fined.

wardy
15:50 04 Jun 08
62 PostsWWE is in respect to the ROM . This means that the ROM on the device is English which is the approved International Language. The type (SN) and origin(Country) of the hardware is an issue if not a European handset as HTC will not perform .

If Expansys will honour the warranty agreement themselves by returning the phone to its origin or supplier as they ave said then all well and good . However this does not remove the fact that these handsets have been identified as 'Grey' imports.

The position really is with you as the customer . If you are ok with this then buy the device, if not wait .

midsleic
16:01 04 Jun 08
2 PostsI think we understand that WWE means English, however what won't be fixed by Expansys agreeing to take units back for any repairs is that fact that the HTC website does not and will not recognise the serial number as a valid "HTC branded" product, as opposed to a network product say Orange, O2 etc.

HTC online ROM updates on HTC E-Club are only available to vanilla HTC handsets. As these are "NW-PCS" handsets the HTC website refuses to recognise them for the purposes of updates - which could bring enhancements, better functions etc. I have confirmed this with HTC.

roddydunlop
16:07 04 Jun 08
9 Posts
AdvocateMine arrived today. I was hugely disappointed to find it to be a grey import, and thus not eligible for registration on the HTC website or for their online support, ROM upgrades, etc etc. It also only had 128mb RAM, so far as I could see [see explanation below], and not the 192+256 advertised by Expansys. Don't know if it was because of the lower RAM, but the performance was not very impressive and quite slow. Mine is going back for a full refund. It really should be disclosed by Expansys if they are selling "greys" badged as UK versions. I have always found Expansys to be an excellent supplier, and to be fair they are refunding the full price plus P&P without quarrel, but i have to say I'm quite disillusioned by this whole experience.
wb9999
19:04 04 Jun 08
1 PostsI've had 10 HTC devices over the last 6 years (since the original SPV). Do you really think HTC provide ROM updates on a regular basis? I don't even bother to register my devices on HTC's website, because it is very very rare for them to provide a ROM update. Don't even bother to attempt registration. I've had a Touch Dual for 7 months - not a single update. An S710 for 1 year - not a single update.
I've ordered by Touch Diamond from Expansys today and I am not in slightest bit worried about them being grey imports. In the UK HTC are under no legal obligation to repair any product - the law only provides for the retailer to do the repair (you have no contract with a manufacturer unless you buy direct from them). If you have a problem with your phone Expansys will sort it out whether it is a grey import or not.
Don't panic.
hbaket
20:02 04 Jun 08
30 Posts128 MB RAM instead of the advertised 192 MB????? Can someone please confirm this?

If this is true then Expansys are truly making fools out of thier customers!

roddydunlop
20:24 04 Jun 08
9 Posts
AdvocateWell, all I can say is that the "totals" in the Memory Tab, in the Settings screen, showed lower amounts than my Touch Dual (which only has 128mb RAM). I have sent it back so can;t check, but from recollection the total for Storage on the Touch Diamond was about 81mb; and the total for Program was 121mb. Neither seems to represent the 192mb Ram and 256mb ROM which is advertised, but I hasten to add I'm not entirely sure what the Memory Tab is reporting. Looking at it this evening, my Touch Dual reports Total storage of 123mb and total Program of 101mb, each of which is more than what was reported by the Diamond. If someone can explain why this was so then great and I withdraw the comment (though it's still unwanted if it's a grey import, notwithstanding the assurances elsewhere). However, to the uninitiated (and when it comes to Windows Mobile memory management I am uninitiated....) this looked off to me.
hbaket
20:33 04 Jun 08
30 PostsThanks for replying. Usually in windows mobile devices the best place to tell installed ROM and RAM is "Device Information" under the hardware tab.

Usually not all ROM and RAM are avaliable to the user and are reserved for system files.

I would still like someone from Expansys to confirm that it is 192 MB of RAM. Other users on respected forums have also complained of the same thing.

an2ony
21:12 04 Jun 08
4 PostsOk, the question is, should I send this phone back and wait for the UK stock? if so, what reason should I use? I am a little concerned if not confused about the situation.
hbaket
21:25 04 Jun 08
30 PostsI think by now we all now these devices are grey imports, hence it is about damn time that a rep from expansys steps up and start answering our questions. We are all confused about the situation and need some proper answers.

1. Warranty coverage and procedure to get device repaired.

2. How can we get official update if HTC are not accepting S/N?

3. Are the devices shipped 192 or 128 MB RAM?

Please feel free to add any of your questions to this list. Please do not tell me this is a technical support forum and not a sales forum, we are confused and frustrated and do not need any further aggravation.

wb9999
19:04 04 Jun 08
1 PostsI've had 10 HTC devices over the last 6 years (since the original SPV). Do you really think HTC provide ROM updates on a regular basis? I don't even bother to register my devices on HTC's website, because it is very very rare for them to provide a ROM update. Don't even bother to attempt registration. I've had a Touch Dual for 7 months - not a single update. An S710 for 1 year - not a single update.
I've ordered by Touch Diamond from Expansys today and I am not in slightest bit worried about them being grey imports. In the UK HTC are under no legal obligation to repair any product - the law only provides for the retailer to do the repair (you have no contract with a manufacturer unless you buy direct from them). If you have a problem with your phone Expansys will sort it out whether it is a grey import or not.
Don't panic.

This guy's a moron. I've never heard such rubbish. HTC do provide rom updates on the site. And the bit about the retailer having to repair the device is COMPLETLY wrong. The retailer is acting on behalf of the manufacturer and thats exactly why you'll find smallprint inside the box saying what conditions the product is sold under and the liability of HTC.

If anyone bought one from expansys, don't get false hope from that. If i were in your position i would have a play with the device since u got it now, but send it back!

Copying and Pasting from this thread in case it too gets deleted by Expansys:

http://www.expansys.com/ft.aspx?k=110221&page=1


hbaket21:44 04 Jun 08
30 Posts

This is the EU/Asian Model. It only supports 900/2100 MHz HSDPA as per the specs sheet.

Other forum users have tested on AT&T and were only able to get Edge connection at best, not 3G.


midsleic09:54 05 Jun 08
9 Posts

I see the Grey Import thread has been removed...

It's not official UK stock (it's unlocked but NW-PCS Hong Kong stock) so you won't get support from HTC. Expansys say they will honour warranties but they're not going to be able to offer you any updates that might come along.
Yoni10:05 05 Jun 08
5470 Posts
Tech, eXpansys Ltd
Manchester UK

Yes, will houonr the warrenties, and we will do our best to post the updates in our forums.



Yoni,
eXpansys Product Support,
Forum Search
geek7812:28 05 Jun 08
3 Posts

Yoni

untill you don't answer to those questions you will have the same comments here and all over others forums like xda-dev...

Can a UK buyer (or french or..) deal directly with HTC UK for the warranty (or HTC France or..)?

If yes, is there a 2 years waranty or one year ?

Regards
Ineedtoys13:27 05 Jun 08
393 Posts

I see the product description still claims this is the "UK" model. There can have been only one motive for deleting the thread questioning its legitimacy and support - to deceive potential customers by passing off grey imports as the "real thing". Otherwise they would have answered the (extremely valid) concerns raised. Outrageuous.

To those who have already bought - don't worry, you paid the price for getting it early. Given the hefty premium you paid, I'm sure Expansys will look after you should it go wrong.
midsleic14:47 05 Jun 08
9 Posts

HTC have confirmed that they will not accept direct involvement for these units because they are Asian units for NW-PCS network and not branded for the UK.

I've spoken to the CAB today and have confirmed that if you want to return the product to Expansys, you are perfectly entitled to do so for a full refund of the item and carriage costs to you and back (unless Expansys want to pick it up at their cost of course).

The vague nature of what Expansys will cover is beyond belief. Can they provide a full two year warranty with repairs within 28 days or not? Will any future firmware updates be provided or not?

Deleting the threads to perfectly valid concerns aren't going to stop the news spreading that this sort of business practice is occuring.
wardy15:59 05 Jun 08
64 Posts

lol I just wont use them anymore ... The Customer is King ? Not here NO !!



Feel three to delete , its posted all over the net now anyway )
colin98717:38 05 Jun 08
519 Posts

Im going to stick up for Expansys on this one because how dare HTC try to regionalise their products and say unit X wont be covered if ur living in area Y. For one its a Global ecomony now, and 2 people move abroad or work in different countries. So called Grey imports should be supported as any other purchase

Now Im not someone whos afraid to criticise Expansys (e.g my removed post about the Wind ads dissapearing the day the 701eee stock arrived lol), and I agree with INEEDTOYS about the price being high BUT on this issue I think its HTC who should be criticised for suggesting this two tier policy. Its not as if their customer support has been very good in the past anyway!
midsleic17:59 05 Jun 08
9 Posts

@colin987



You may have a point about a global economy but let's be honest it isn't and neither would most people want it to be. This unit for example will fair very badly in America as it's not built for that area. Also Vodafone have rejected their UK stock under quality control issues - so therefore we can expect that the entire UK stock is delayed for this very reason.

Whether you feel HTC are wrong or not is irrelevent. What is, is that Expansys have palmed off 'good news' and hidden the fact that HTC will not - and have an absolute right not to- support these units under warranty.

I'm sure anyone in America would feel as aggrieved if they were sold a unit under the impression that it was an official US model. So why should we put up with it being in the UK? AND the higher price!
colin98718:15 05 Jun 08
519 Posts

I totally disagree because some people work and travel all over the world.

I want my phone to work in America, Europe, Asia etc wherever I bought it.

Dont tell me u dont think ur phone should work when u go on holiday somewhere?

Companys only do unit region branding with things like DVDs, games etc so they can charge more for the product in regions which have more wealth, Theres no good reason for HTC to be able to justify doing this so lets direct the criticism there.

The whole point about a MOBILE is that its ... Mobile, and thus should be warrantied which ever region u take it to!
midsleic18:25 05 Jun 08
9 Posts

Yes and you have exactly proven my point. This unit is not tuned to work all over the world - therefore it may not be tuned to do other things properly in the UK as it is an Asian handset.

Anyone buying this for America for instance will find it supports few networks and if at all Edge at the most likely.
panitoni18:53 05 Jun 08
13 Posts

Don't want to take away from the conversation, but I have just registered with the Hong Kong - English HTC website using the early released expansys version of the diamond phone's serial number and it has given me access to all the application and rom downloads for practically all the recent devices, including applications for the diamond.

I know this doesn't excuse Expansys in the slightest, but at least you know you can get the rom upgrades if you want them.



Just thought you'd like to know.

Optik19:05 05 Jun 08
8 Posts
Director

I just ordered one from expansys...

hoping a lot it will be a disent buy

reeding above makes me speechless...
Ineedtoys19:34 05 Jun 08
393 Posts

If the HK site is accepting the serial numbers then that is good news. However it still doesn't answer who handles the extra shipping costs, the extra lead times, nor do we know how long the so-called "warranty" lasts for.

My main objection is that Expansys are still claiming these are UK units on their product page

"HTC Touch Diamond

version: UK, GPS"

even when this has been exposed as a lie.
midsleic20:17 05 Jun 08
9 Posts

HTC confirmed that they will definately not stump up for the carriage costs and that all repairs will be chargeable according to their terms. Apparently they don't actually ship the units out boxed so as far as they are concerned whatever leaflets etc are with the unit they won't be adhering to them.

It's highly unusual for a vendor to support a two year warranty if at all - and that is what you'll be getting with an official UK version.

And what happens if Expansys go under?

Or HTC release WinMo 7 as an upgrade, will these handsets get that too? I doubt it.
panitoni20:57 05 Jun 08
13 Posts

In regard to the upgrade question, please read my earlier post. Not an ideal situation, but does give some comfort to those who have kept the handsets.

I'm also in agreement with Ineedtoys earlier about selling the phones as UK versions. My main question to expansys though would be why?. Why import handsets two weeks before the original release date? How much more profit will it generate in respect to the customers you'll lose? How many sales will you lose because people will be convinced you are selling imports even when you actually do have the official versions?

I also feel sorry for your customer service people who have to answer the rightfully angry customers who had no choice in which version they would receive.

You should also bear in mind the customers you will be losing are those willing to spend £500 on a phone, I would think those are the ones you'd want to keep.

I suspect you haven't heard the last of this.






Wishlist20:58 05 Jun 08
3638 Posts
UK

"And what happens if Expansys go under?"

What happens if HTC go under?
midsleic22:16 05 Jun 08
9 Posts

@wishlist



Based purely on what we're discussing - grey market goods - I don't recall HTC having to fork out £200k in legal costs for selling grey market goods as Expansys did a couple years back.

Any more of that and they WILL be going under. Doesn't take much to shut a business down these days, particularly one that takes the arrogant view that they can purposefully mislead customers - simply because they want to be 'first' to market and are jealous someone else will be. An odd position to take with people tightening their belts in the UK. And I agree with a previous poster - Expansys have alienated a lot of loyal and potential customers who were willing to shell out £500 for a phone that is out in a couple of weeks.

What are they going to do with the returns - sell them off as new?I doubt anyone will stand for that.

It can't be avoided that customers have been decieved and - yes Expansys are saying they will honour warranties - but why lie to start with? And if they do it once will they do it again when it comes to needing warranty care in 18 months? The warranty thing still has not been fully resolved or clarified.
mjheathcote22:45 05 Jun 08
17 Posts
Blimey can't believe my simple question whether the phones where grey import or not would result in the thread being deleted & such heated discussion.
selene22:46 05 Jun 08
6891 Posts
I am woman. Phenomenally
Phenomenal woman, that's me

Lol!! Yeah, look what you started!!! :)

Selene

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It's the so called normal guys who always let you down. Sickos never scare me, at least they're commited


mjheathcote22:54 05 Jun 08
17 Posts

The thing is personally I don't really care if they where greys or not, as long as the warrantee was identical, hence the initial question. If the warrantee was identical (which it appears not now) I would have no problem buying.
Optik23:20 05 Jun 08
8 Posts
Director

my arriving tomorrow....

will do all tests over the weekend and if it is not uk unit, will return!
Ineedtoys09:42 06 Jun 08
393 Posts

See Expansys are deleting posts again...

Come on guys, be honest with your customers for once - is your "Expansys warranty" for 1 year, or 2 years like the HTC offer in the EU? And will you cover all repair shipping costs from the UK to Asia?


Spawn11:28 06 Jun 08
129 Posts
Director

If you have ordered it from Expansys then you can be assured that IT IS NOT A UK model but a Hong Kong version ie Asian.