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Touch Pro performance

OP DSF

23rd November 2008, 03:42 AM   |  #1  
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Let's talk about the Touch Pro performance.

I will post some quotes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by branko.savic

Ok, so just to be fair I did some more testings on all three of my devices to find the optimal settings, here is the results:

Test performed on same video, with coreplayer 1.2.5, and optimal settings for each device:

Omnia:
Raw framebuffer: 442.74%

Universal:
Direct Draw: 165.28%

Touch Pro:
QTv display: 152.44%

Smooth Zoom and Dither turned off on each device!

So in conclusion, again Omnia wins by a huge 277.46% over the next best device that is the Universal. And even then the Universal is 12.84% better then the Touch Pro!

Please bare in mind that the Universal is a three years old device with only 64MB ram, while Touch pro is brand new and 288MB ram! They have same clock speed but Touch pro is supposed to have a better/newer chipset then the Universal!

There is no doubt in my mind anymore, Touch pro is missing the video drivers, or could it just be that qualcomm chipset just sucks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSF

poor directdraw, framebuffer/video performance. Just to make an idea: an old device from 2005 with omap 850 200mhz CPU performs better in this area than the touch pro @ qualcomm 528mhz. what a shame. The test were done in this topic (in romanian, sorry). CorePlayer was used for benchmark. I will summarize.
- HTC Tornado overclocked (262Mhz) max performance: 174.22%
- Touch Pro max performance: 172,67%
Both in Raw framebuffer mode. When used QTV it gains only 162,64%. How come?
It's pitty, 262Mhz from OMAP performs better than 528!!!Mhz from Qualcomm?!
The video used for tests is this one. (320x240 @ 25FPS)

So what do you think? Are the qualcomm chipsets just junk or we got poor drivers? Personally, I was hoping that HTC did learn something after the HTC TyTN II issues..

Another prove of sh*ty graphics on touch pro: Touch Pro landscape redraw issue (videos included)

Furthermore I would like to make some recommendations to see the true performance of touch pro:
- Rats!! http://clickgamer.com/download.htm?pvid=15358
- Ubulis TSE http://www.ionfx.com/product_windows..._obulisTSE.htm (note the req: "200Mhz CPU or higher"
- Spore
- Prince of Persia HD
- Assasin Creed HD
- etc.

Wonderfull, the graphics are so fluid... NOT.
Last edited by DSF; 27th December 2008 at 02:06 PM.
23rd November 2008, 05:46 AM   |  #2  
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How about GL benchmarks between the iPhone, Kaiser, Raphael, and Toshiba G810 Portege?
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.j...a G810 Portege

A lot of it is the quality of HTC's drivers since the Portege does better, but the rest is Qualcomm's fault because even the Protege is inferior compared to an iPhone, N95, etc etc.

However, I cannot find a better phone that has a decent 3D chip on it, has at&t 3G, touch screen, and isn't NDA locked.
23rd November 2008, 09:32 AM   |  #3  
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If Qualcomm is such crap, then why oh why is HTC using it on all new devices?

Keep me wondering!
23rd November 2008, 02:59 PM   |  #4  
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NuShrike, Touch Pro has a newer CPU that the one found on Toshiba G810 Portege, however, the benchmarks are still unsatisfying.

Here's some interesting information
Quote:

Q: HTC, Qualcomm and the missing drivers—where do we send the angry mob with torches?

A: Qualcomm has a tiered pricing policy with their chipsets—so although you bought the chip, you have not bought all the features. So you have to pay additional fees per phone to get things like aGPS, graphic acceleration, etc.

In the past, HTC had no problems when using the older MSM-6500 chips (ARM9 processors) without drivers hence their reluctance to pay for any or additional support with the new MSM-7500 chips (ARM11 processors), especially since the newer processors were advertised to match or outperform the older generation.

Unfortunately, Qualcomm’s ARM11 performance does not match their previous ARM9 processor and is therefore, not quite as advertised. To get the proper performance out of the ARM11, one has to have knowledge of the processor’s implementation and design, but since that processor is not publicly available; the solution requires cooperation and assistance. HTC in this instance does not have this knowledge and is therefore unable to directly fix the problem, so they are put in a tough situation as they already have millions of these devices sold but they don’t want to pay Qualcomm more than they have to.

Full article: http://wmexperts.com/articles/editor..._and_feat.html

And here we've got a comparison between touch pro and dell axim v51v (a VGA PocketPC from year 2005).
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.j...Dell Axim X51v
(I've bold the VGA because there are some users that are trying to find excuses of poor performance because of VGA resolution)
Last edited by DSF; 23rd November 2008 at 03:42 PM.
24th November 2008, 06:17 AM   |  #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branko.savic

If Qualcomm is such crap, then why oh why is HTC using it on all new devices?

Keep me wondering!

Because Qualcomm owns wcdma! Anyone developing chipsets will have to pay them royalties which in the end increases cost of the chips and handsets.
24th November 2008, 11:00 AM   |  #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branko.savic

If Qualcomm is such crap, then why oh why is HTC using it on all new devices?

They probably make their hardware really cheap compared to other solutions.

There aren't many others (or at all) that package 3G WCDMA, asymmetric dual-core ARM11/ARM9, GPS, (WiFi?), BT?, and 3D GPU all into one at a pretty good power envelope.

The problem sounds like it's $$$ to access any of Q's advanced features, and they're not even that good.

Funny part is the CPU design was licensed from ARM in 2002 and is only hitting mainstream last year with the Kaiser/N95. However, it seems Qualcomm never licensed FPU capable ARM11 design, versus TI (N95 cpu) and Samsung (iPhone cpu) whom did.
Last edited by NuShrike; 24th November 2008 at 11:08 AM.
27th November 2008, 02:21 AM   |  #7  
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Angry
If the video issue was the only problem...

Sometime it really annoys me how poor can perform... When I was thinking to switch from my HTC Tornado (TI OMAP 850 CPU (180Mhz)) I was saying the performance difference must be enormous , but I find that those qualcomm CPUs are crap or the drivers sucks.. (but I tend to think it's the first variant). I really want that my device to perform well while listening to music, not to wait 1-2 sec for Start Menu to appear (atention, Start Menu, not Programs list, while scrolling in that list the things are so laggy, but that's a WM issue, so I pass. I've got a lot of apps installed)

I'm really dissapointed of crappy performance. My first and last qualcomm cpu-enabled device. If I know that before buying... but no one complains of this, all worship it (for eg, see gsmarena review).

An advice for interested people in buying Touch Pro: if you want a good device PASS touch pro.
It simply doesn't deserve it's price. It has a lot of super nice features (5 row qwerty, plenty of RAM, good amount of ROM, accelerometer, multiple sensors, good shape, superb VGA resolution, HSPDA, etc etc) but has soo many issues (low volume, crap speakerphone/earpiece, music gap, slider play, gps lag, poor directdraw performance, landscape redraw issue, poor overall system performance..)

I really expected way much more from a 2008 year device and especially from HTC!

BTW, I'm using a custom ROM (T.I.R V8), so no I'm not using the factory ROM

What I'm wondering is that just a few owners joined the topic.. so, I guess, that the performance of your touch pro doesn't bother you..
then, we shouldn't be surprised if HTC isn't interested. They think that we are happy with the performance of the device.

Edit: http://brew.qualcomm.com/bnry_brew/p...-303_Ligon.pdf - see page 13. And that's MSM72000. We got MSM7201A chipset on Touch Pro (better). So in final may be HTC fault? I'm so confused
Last edited by DSF; 27th November 2008 at 03:19 AM.
27th November 2008, 11:16 AM   |  #8  
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Yep, have to agree the performance is abysmal. I heard HTC didn't want to pay some company for a proper graphics driver.... but thats just hearsay.

And have you seen the HTC HD? From the youtube videos I've watched ot goes like s**t off a shovel, seems they managed to get that thing working properly, if they'd only do an update for other devices.
1st December 2008, 01:29 AM   |  #9  
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Guys.. we need to do something, I'm really dissapointed about touch pro performance.

Look here how smooth does run quake 3 on nokia n82 (CPU: TI OMAP 2420 @ 330 MHz*): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1i4fOCrCv0
"Quake 3 Arena Running on nokia n82 in perfect speed,with all graphics settings set to high and Anti-Aliasing ON!!!!"

If you want, I will record a video showing quake 3 in action on touch pro, low fps, choppy sound, etc.

* Embedded 220MHz TI TMS320C55x DSP (GSM/GPRS/EDGE/UMTS baseband), 640KB shared SRAM, 2D/3D graphics acceleration, dual display support, analog/digital TV video output, TI TWL92230 companion chip

http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a2420

Is that fair..?

I just don't know what to say. The time is passing and nothing's done in this direction..

@Gav_ haven't seen touch hd running other stuff than internet browsing (opera with the full quares when dragging, etc..), youtube, general menu browsing..
1st December 2008, 01:47 AM   |  #10  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSF

Guys.. we need to do something, I'm really dissapointed about touch pro performance.

Look here how smooth does run quake 3 on nokia n82 (CPU: TI OMAP 2420 @ 330 MHz*): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1i4fOCrCv0
"Quake 3 Arena Running on nokia n82 in perfect speed,with all graphics settings set to high and Anti-Aliasing ON!!!!"

If you want, I will record a video showing quake 3 in action on touch pro, low fps, choppy sound, etc.

* Embedded 220MHz TI TMS320C55x DSP (GSM/GPRS/EDGE/UMTS baseband), 640KB shared SRAM, 2D/3D graphics acceleration, dual display support, analog/digital TV video output, TI TWL92230 companion chip

http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a2420

Is that fair..?

I just don't know what to say. The time is passing and nothing's done in this direction..

@Gav_ haven't seen touch hd running other stuff than internet browsing (opera with the full quares when dragging, etc..), youtube, general menu browsing..

I totally TOTALLY agree. I mean how can we fix this? How much time is going to go by until the chipset can finally do what it should be able to do?

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