Sony's developer policy! RANT

[Me Gusta]

MOD EDIT by @gregbradley. I did not see the need for the expletive in the title, so i took it out for you.

So here's a little rant.
Read it if you'd like to, don't read if you don't like to.

Let's start with a little introduction. I've bought my Z3 about a year ago. I wanted to go with the z3+, but the Snapdragon 810 seemed to cause some issues. I still wanted the Sony batterylife after coming from a Galaxy S4 (which doesn't have the best battery life). I found online that Sony shares AOSP source code, so building a custom rom shouldn't be too hard.

Recently I have thought about unlocking my bootloader, but reading further into it, I found there to be NO upsides to unlocking your bootloader.
- There's a possibility of losing your DRM Keys when unlocking bootloader.
- You can not lock your bootloader again, so you're forever excluded from any OTA's.. Sony supports AOSP source code, you know.. to be developer friendly. But locking your bootloader again is not possible. This makes unlocking it very unappealing.. and very developer unfriendly.
- You cannot flash a recovery through fastboot, because Sony doesn't use conventional recoveries. Very developer friendly!
- Fine, Sony decides to release Android MM concept. Great, I was excited for this! But, the actual MM final firmware is nothing like the concept firmware and still a lot like the actual Sony themed firmware. (In my opinion this is disappointing, but that might be just me). When asked about why there are differences between the concept and the final firmware, the concept team replies that it has nothing to do with the final firmware. Then what's the point of a concept firmware??

Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but this seems very hypocritical from Sony..
C'mon Sony, your mobile department isn't doing too well, and this sure as hell doesn't make it better.
Now I know there are maybe only several thousand people actually wanting to run AOSP on their Sony, but I sure as hell am not buying another Sony phone until this policy changes.

Thanks.
Joost

 

[cazuniq]

Im still trying to figure out which part you unhappy about lol ?????
I have the Z3 rooted with Android 6.0.1 Slim1.6 Rom LB
And its the best ever with longest battery life ive experienced no issues fast and smooth
I dont want any other phone right now what more could you want?

 

[Me Gusta]

Im still trying to figure out which part you unhappy about lol ?????
I have the Z3 rooted with Android 6.0.1 Slim1.6 Rom LB
And its the best ever with longest battery life ive experienced no issues fast and smooth
I dont want any other phone right now what more could you want?

My issue?
On one hand Sony releases AOSP code, while on the other hand they make it a real damn pain in the ass to even run an AOSP rom. There have been several developers out there to try and build an AOSP rom. None of them managed to make a fully working one, because Sony made it so damn hard. I find this hypocritical and unjust.
What I want is for Sony to make it actually possible to run an AOSP rom, and stop pretenting like it's possible.

 

[savo83]

So here's a little rant.
Read it if you'd like to, don't read if you don't like to.

Let's start with a little introduction. I've bought my Z3 about a year ago. I wanted to go with the z3+, but the Snapdragon 810 seemed to cause some issues. I still wanted the Sony batterylife after coming from a Galaxy S4 (which doesn't have the best battery life). I found online that Sony shares AOSP source code, so building a custom rom shouldn't be too hard.

Recently I have thought about unlocking my bootloader, but reading further into it, I found there to be NO upsides to unlocking your bootloader.
- There's a possibility of losing your DRM Keys when unlocking bootloader.
- You can not lock your bootloader again, so you're forever excluded from any OTA's.. Sony supports AOSP source code, you know.. to be developer friendly. But locking your bootloader again is not possible. This makes unlocking it very unappealing.. and very developer unfriendly.
- You cannot flash a recovery through fastboot, because Sony doesn't use conventional recoveries. Very developer friendly!
- Fine, Sony decides to release Android MM concept. Great, I was excited for this! But, the actual MM final firmware is nothing like the concept firmware and still a lot like the actual Sony themed firmware. (In my opinion this is disappointing, but that might be just me). When asked about why there are differences between the concept and the final firmware, the concept team replies that it has nothing to do with the final firmware. Then what's the point of a concept firmware??

Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but this seems very hypocritical from Sony..
C'mon Sony, your mobile department isn't doing too well, and this sure as hell doesn't make it better.
Now I know there are maybe only several thousand people actually wanting to run AOSP on their Sony, but I sure as hell am not buying another Sony phone until this policy changes.

Thanks.
Joost

You can use TA Backup to restore your DRM keys as long as you back them up before unlocking the bootloader ('m just about to do it)
You can install a custom recovery via fastboot (I used TWRP to replace cyanogen recovery).

Not really sure your points to be honest.

 

[Me Gusta]

You can use TA Backup to restore your DRM keys as long as you back them up before unlocking the bootloader ('m just about to do it)
You can install a custom recovery via fastboot (I used TWRP to replace cyanogen recovery).

Not really sure your points to be honest.

Sure, you can restore DRM.. but is it really convenient? My point is that Sony basically promotes AOSP roms by releasing source code, but on the other hand they make it impossible to enjoy a fully working AOSP rom because of DRM, camera's never working, etc..

Oh, and if you could explain to me how you flashed TWRP, and which file exactly, that'd be great . I've literally already spent 6 hours today trying to figure **** out after unlocking my bootloader..

Thanks in advance!

 

[Evokkimus]

I totally agree with you. Building an AOSP ROM for Z3 seems to be difficult (Tried cm too but extracting proprietary blobs did not work). The way how recovery works here is pretty stupid, seeing that we dont have a recovery on N for example, so I need to be on it without root (i dont blame developers here, but again, Sony's implementation). Also I haven't been able to work around the radio or camera thing in AOSP, even though I have only been able to build the ROM like once some weeks ago

---------- Post added at 06:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 AM ----------

Sure, you can restore DRM.. but is it really convenient? My point is that Sony basically promotes AOSP roms by releasing source code, but on the other hand they make it impossible to enjoy a fully working AOSP rom because of DRM, camera's never working, etc..

Oh, and if you could explain to me how you flashed TWRP, and which file exactly, that'd be great . I've literally already spent 6 hours today trying to figure **** out after unlocking my bootloader..

Thanks in advance!

Also the recovery thing. Just download the .img from Nailyk's thread and put it in ADB folder. Then go to fastboot and type fastboot flash FOTAKernel . Then boot to recovery by pressing power and volume down button, releasing power when phone vibrates and volume when sony logo appears.

 

[doomed151]

- There's a possibility of losing your DRM Keys when unlocking bootloader.

That is true and disappointing. However, there is a way to backup the keys and restore whenever the need arises.

- You can not lock your bootloader again, so you're forever excluded from any OTA's.. Sony supports AOSP source code, you know.. to be developer friendly. But locking your bootloader again is not possible. This makes unlocking it very unappealing.. and very developer unfriendly.

fastboot oem lock or restoring the DRM keys should relock the bootloader.

- You cannot flash a recovery through fastboot, because Sony doesn't use conventional recoveries. Very developer friendly!

Sure it works, you just need to run 23.4.A.1.264 firmware or newer. I use fastboot flash recovery something.img all the time.

- Fine, Sony decides to release Android MM concept. Great, I was excited for this! But, the actual MM final firmware is nothing like the concept firmware and still a lot like the actual Sony themed firmware. (In my opinion this is disappointing, but that might be just me). When asked about why there are differences between the concept and the final firmware, the concept team replies that it has nothing to do with the final firmware. Then what's the point of a concept firmware??

I think the Concept software is for those who don't need Sony enhancements (X-Reality, ClearAudio+, etc.) and want something that is close to stock.

 

[CedArctic]

So:

-You can backup and restore DRM functions even with an unlocked BL.
-You can relock BL again (haven't tried it myself but I think it's possible, if you check out DRM restoration guides I think they also show how to relock the BL)
-The new Sony BL allows fastbooting recoveries, the older ones support FOTA recoveries (I've used both with no problems)
-The MM concept project is still live, you can install it and continue using it, it gets updated regularly and is very close to AOSP.
-True Sony is kind of shady with their sources but you can build AOSP, there are AOSP builds for the Z3 here: http://fxpblog.co/ they get released whenever Sony releases new sources but you can also make builds yourself. The only true issue with sources comes out on certain AOSP functions and that we don't have (yet) fully working CM13 builds. As for the concept firmware it's exactly what you said, Sony is giving it out to people who are interested in having a close AOSP experience with support from the vendor while giving feedback to further improve it. Sony is making moves and is becoming more developer friendly by the month, other than new and constantly updated sources, proof of this is the Xperia Z3 is the only non-Nexus device that gets to run the Android N preview officially given from the vendor.

The Z3 is a great device, I personally haven't regreted the purchase, the only thing that bugs me is that neither I nor anyone else has managed to build a fully functional CM13 build (kudos to infected btw).

---------- Post added at 09:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 AM ----------

I totally agree with you. Building an AOSP ROM for Z3 seems to be difficult (Tried cm too but extracting proprietary blobs did not work). The way how recovery works here is pretty stupid, seeing that we dont have a recovery on N for example, so I need to be on it without root (i dont blame developers here, but again, Sony's implementation). Also I haven't been able to work around the radio or camera thing in AOSP, even though I have only been able to build the ROM like once some weeks ago

---------- Post added at 06:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 AM ----------


Also the recovery thing. Just download the .img from Nailyk's thread and put it in ADB folder. Then go to fastboot and type fastboot flash FOTAKernel . Then boot to recovery by pressing power and volume down button, releasing power when phone vibrates and volume when sony logo appears.

As I said fxp has some builds, I haven't tested them but I think they work (http://fxpblog.co/)

 

[Evokkimus]

I was eager to try out FXP's aosp ROM, due to 3.10 kernel and such, but I got an error about updater-script in META-INF, didn't read further. I have my suspicions that it was a bad download, but their current site is so slow to download from (about 2 hours to download, and only a +20kb/s faster if you register), and i'm not going to pay for that site. If it helps any, i just wiped data, system and caches and tried flashing the ROM.

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

So:

-You can backup and restore DRM functions even with an unlocked BL.
-You can relock BL again (haven't tried it myself but I think it's possible, if you check out DRM restoration guides I think they also show how to relock the BL)
-The new Sony BL allows fastbooting recoveries, the older ones support FOTA recoveries (I've used both with no problems)
-The MM concept project is still live, you can install it and continue using it, it gets updated regularly and is very close to AOSP.
-True Sony is kind of shady with their sources but you can build AOSP, there are AOSP builds for the Z3 here: http://fxpblog.co/ they get released whenever Sony releases new sources but you can also make builds yourself. The only true issue with sources comes out on certain AOSP functions and that we don't have (yet) fully working CM13 builds. As for the concept firmware it's exactly what you said, Sony is giving it out to people who are interested in having a close AOSP experience with support from the vendor while giving feedback to further improve it. Sony is making moves and is becoming more developer friendly by the month, other than new and constantly updated sources, proof of this is the Xperia Z3 is the only non-Nexus device that gets to run the Android N preview officially given from the vendor.

The Z3 is a great device, I personally haven't regreted the purchase, the only thing that bugs me is that neither I nor anyone else has managed to build a fully functional CM13 build (kudos to infected btw).

---------- Post added at 09:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 AM ----------


As I said fxp has some builds, I haven't tested them but I think they work (http://fxpblog.co/)

I also tried building CM but stuck on proprietary blobs part. Couldn't pull them from the device for some reason, even though i was on CM rom at the time. (I did it because breakfast ended up in some vendor errors and Z3 didnt show up on the list either)

 

[nailyk]

I also tried building CM but stuck on proprietary blobs part. Couldn't pull them from the device for some reason, even though i was on CM rom at the time. (I did it because breakfast ended up in some vendor errors and Z3 didnt show up on the list either)

Weird, I build CM12.1/CM13.0/twrp 3 with theMuppet repo without a glitch. Can you paste your compilation error in a pastebin or something like this? Maybe I can help you a little (I'm a compilation newbie)

 

[Evokkimus]

Weird, I build CM12.1/CM13.0/twrp 3 with theMuppet repo without a glitch. Can you paste your compilation error in a pastebin or something like this? Maybe I can help you a little (I'm a compilation newbie)

Basically the error I get is with extract-files.sh. When I run "./extract-files.sh" while phone is plugged in, I get permission denied. The other option for me is to run it with sudo, but then I get "line XX adb: command not found" (many lines of this error). Someone suggested chmod or opening a terminal window inside the folder where extract-files.sh is located. There shouldn't be any errors with my AndroidSDK path, even though some suggest the error is with this.

Also the reason I'm trying to pull these blobs, is because the CM tutorial told me so

https://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Build_for_z3

------------------------------------------------------------

Also the reason I'm building CM is because I still don't know how to get radio working, even though a person has told how to get it working, I don't know how to exactly do it. But firstly I would like this CM thing to work. Thanks for your help.

 

[nailyk]

Also the reason I'm building CM is because I still don't know how to get radio working, even though a person has told how to get it working, I don't know how to exactly do it. But firstly I would like this CM thing to work. Thanks for your help.

No worries.
So it may be a little more complicated.... If you just need a functional self build CM, try to include themuppet repo. If your device variant is not currently officially supported it can be more complicated.
I suggest you to open (or find) a dedicated thread and quote me, or join #cyanogenmod-dev@freenode.

Otherwise I'm following this thread because I found some point really interesting. I'm currently in trouble with Sony, that's why I subscribe.
Sorry for off-topic answers.

 

[arminbih]

sorry did not see the date

 

[nailyk]

sorry did not see the date

Customer service troubles. They didn't respect law about unlocked bootloader into my country and refused to fix my device.

 

[The Android Robot]

I know this thread is basically dead but I figured I'd poke it with a stick a few times and give my two cents.

First of all, the reason I chose Sony. I peviously owned Galaxy S4 and at some point (Android 4.2.2?) they implemented a security software called KNOX. It lets you create encrypted partitions for business stuff. Soon after, users started reporting that any unofficial changes result in a "0x01" flag showing in the download mode. Turns out, the device has a physical e-fuse which is burned and can not be reverted (except with a motherboard change). It was mainly for the customer services to be able to tell if the phone had been tampered with. But here's the catch - it was also triggered when installing official Samsung firmware using ODIN (basically FlashTool or Emma for Samsung). And downgrading firmware to pre-KNOX resulted in a special lock - the inability to upgrade again.

XDA members, such as Chainfire and others, have not managed to crack the software after several years, despite the bounty of thousands of dollars. I didn't think much of it, and rooted. Months after that my phone stopped recognizing the SIM card. And since I had "0x01" I had no warranty. So it went to customer service many times, I paid for the SIM reader change, and still nothing. Even custom ROMs didn't help.


So, I had a phone with no SIM support, and no faith in Samsung. I found out that Sony "encourages Android development" - bootloader unlocking and so on. Soon after I bought a Z3, and being a power user, I wanted to root. And then I found out about the DRM. The more I researched, the more livid I got. Finally I managed to dig up a method of rooting without bootloader unlock. After every small update Sony issued, I had to go through hours of researching and developing a new cusom update for my device. After some time I just decided to go with a (back then unreliable) DRM function restoring flashable zip.When I heard there will be no Nougat for Z3, I was quite mad. I looked into some AOSP's. NONE of them were working correctly. So I settled with a Z3 on unlocked BL with some DRMs working. The device has hiccups but is usable. I am disappointed in Sony and I am disappointed in Samsung. Never buying their phones again.

But now that @nailyk is developing LineageOS for Shinano devices, we have new hope! :victory:

 

[nailyk]

I know this thread is basically dead but I figured I'd poke it with a stick a few times and give my two cents.

First of all, the reason I chose Sony. I peviously owned Galaxy S4 and at some point (Android 4.2.2?) they implemented a security software called KNOX. It lets you create encrypted partitions for business stuff. Soon after, users started reporting that any unofficial changes result in a "0x01" flag showing in the download mode. Turns out, the device has a physical e-fuse which is burned and can not be reverted (except with a motherboard change). It was mainly for the customer services to be able to tell if the phone had been tampered with. But here's the catch - it was also triggered when installing official Samsung firmware using ODIN (basically FlashTool or Emma for Samsung). And downgrading firmware to pre-KNOX resulted in a special lock - the inability to upgrade again.

XDA members, such as Chainfire and others, have not managed to crack the software after several years, despite the bounty of thousands of dollars. I didn't think much of it, and rooted. Months after that my phone stopped recognizing the SIM card. And since I had "0x01" I had no warranty. So it went to customer service many times, I paid for the SIM reader change, and still nothing. Even custom ROMs didn't help.


So, I had a phone with no SIM support, and no faith in Samsung. I found out that Sony "encourages Android development" - bootloader unlocking and so on. Soon after I bought a Z3, and being a power user, I wanted to root. And then I found out about the DRM. The more I researched, the more livid I got. Finally I managed to dig up a method of rooting without bootloader unlock. After every small update Sony issued, I had to go through hours of researching and developing a new cusom update for my device. After some time I just decided to go with a (back then unreliable) DRM function restoring flashable zip.When I heard there will be no Nougat for Z3, I was quite mad. I looked into some AOSP's. NONE of them were working correctly. So I settled with a Z3 on unlocked BL with some DRMs working. The device has hiccups but is usable. I am disappointed in Sony and I am disappointed in Samsung. Never buying their phones again.

But now that @nailyk is developing LineageOS for Shinano devices, we have new hope! :victory:

Lots of OEM are doing this stuffs to protect their intellectuals rights with DRMs. AFAIK oneplus allow bootloaders unlock.
Just for fun, the TA partition of sony contain so much things... It is crazy! BTW I think we have fuse too

idk where you live but in Europe there is a law which basically said: hardware and software are separated and OEM need to fix hardware, except if they can prove this is user fault.
1999/44/CE in date of 1999-05-31.