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Next steps for Samsung Nougat and Substratum

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15th February 2018, 02:54 AM |#11  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haloali

You're not thinking. They made an app that users paid for that they expected to work for the whole time that they had it. If you pay for an app, you EXPECT the developer to update & continue to make it work with newer versions. These devs are just making a new app and saying, "Oh, sorry guys! You have to buy this new version which works with the new system updates."

That's like a car manufacturer saying, "Oh, sorry. This car you bought last year is not able to be driven on highways any more. You have to buy this new car to be able to drive on the highway now. Don't like it? Go build your own car." It's the stupidest **** I've ever seen and users like you are arguing FOR this. I just don't understand your logic.

I expect the developers to let the users who already paid for it upgrade to the new version for free. It's what the customers are expecting. Anything else is retarded.

Did you read what I wrote? Samsung changed how theming worked so much from Nougat to get in line with how every other OEM would implement overlays on Oreo. This meant Sungstratum was pretty much worthless and pretty much had to be completely rewritten. Not to mention, Andromeda isn't Samsung-specific. It works for most, if not all, devices on Oreo.

It would be more akin if the US government decided to put regulations on self-driving cars, saying they had to have certain software installed and third-party hardware checks before they could be used out on the road, around the same time the Tesla Model 4 was released. Unfortunately, Tesla's Model 3 and lower with autopilot don't meet these standards set by the US government and Tesla can't upgrade older vehicles to meet those standards (remember autopilot v2?) due to logistical and money reasons. This means that Tesla will have to disable autopilot on all 3's and lower - it can still drive normally, but just no autopilot.

This would make you angry, yes, but it's necessary. Tesla isn't going to give you a brand new Model 4 for free nor are they going to upgrade your existing car. But now that there are known regulations in place, future Tesla vehicles won't have this issue. But that means in the short term, Model 3 and lower users are screwed. And what's Tesla gonna do? Probably give you $5,000 off a new Model 4 or something, or they may do nothing at all.

It's a similar thing with Samsung. Google and OEMs have decided to finally implemented a standardized way to installing overlays on Oreo. However, the new implementation is incompatible with Sungstratum. And for the mean time, Sungstratum users are screwed. But now that OEMs have decided on a proper way of doing overlays, this means that Andromeda will work for the foreseeable future and not a hacked up solution like Sungstratum/Samsung's Nougat implementation.

Not to mention, this money helps fund Substratum development. Ya know, the base app that can theme apps? The one that's free? That isn't free to them - servers, developers, they all cost money. If Subs goes, theming goes.

But if you really do want to use Andromeda for free, just root your phone.
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15th February 2018, 03:19 AM |#12  
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Meh
Well paying $1-3 isnt the problem the problem is that it isn't my headache that what the developers have to do. I paid for something and i need support for it you just can't abadon a project and leave all user fustrated cuz a team of devs wants to make money every 6 months of so. That ain't fare to the users and in google play terms. All devs are transfering keys and i don't see them crying

Solution to combat the issue

Make the app free for 24 hours
Make the previous a key for this app to work then only users that have bought the app can access the new app and you guys will still get new users
Ask for a donation rather than imposing one i will happily donate but if you devs plan to use cheap tricks to get a new app that ain't happening

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykopompos

To all our Samsung Nougat Rootless users. We thank you dearly for journeying with us into being the first modularized external-OEM-based theming system. You guys have been wonderful and although there have been many ups and downs, our team would like to thank each and every one of you!

Now come Android Oreo for Samsung users, we have to unfortunately state that we will no longer be supporting Nougat’s Sungstratum Addon as they are running on a completely different theming system. As we have BIG plans with Andromeda, we plan to keep it updated even when users upgrade to 9.0.

Instead of maintaining multiple complex projects just to end up abandoning support on an Oreo version of Sungstratum, would cause more code hiccups and potential bugs. So we decided that we would drop the price of Andromeda at a 50% discount for the next 4 days - STARTING ON FEBRUARY 15TH 00:00GMT, TO THE 19TH’s 23:59GMT!

Again, we know to those who are disappointed, we would definitely want to help but our redemption codes are limited to 500/quarter, which would be reserved for upcoming, more frequent giveaways! To our current dedicated substratum users on Huawei, OnePlus, Samsung, Essential, Honor and the like, with Oreo, we would like to thank all of you!

We understand many people would not be content about this, but also if we made amazing changes for andromeda and people from samsung gets the crappier end of the deal, it would be even worse. The idea of andromeda - comes from the idea that everyone is part of the same galaxy now, and it is universalized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xDark_

Did you read what I wrote? Samsung changed how theming worked so much from Nougat to get in line with how every other OEM would implement overlays on Oreo. This meant Sungstratum was pretty much worthless and pretty much had to be completely rewritten. Not to mention, Andromeda isn't Samsung-specific. It works for most, if not all, devices on Oreo.

It would be more akin if the US government decided to put regulations on self-driving cars, saying they had to have certain software installed and third-party hardware checks before they could be used out on the road, around the same time the Tesla Model 4 was released. Unfortunately, Tesla's Model 3 and lower with autopilot don't meet these standards set by the US government and Tesla can't upgrade older vehicles to meet those standards (remember autopilot v2?) due to logistical and money reasons. This means that Tesla will have to disable autopilot on all 3's and lower - it can still drive normally, but just no autopilot.

This would make you angry, yes, but it's necessary. Tesla isn't going to give you a brand new Model 4 for free nor are they going to upgrade your existing car. But now that there are known regulations in place, future Tesla vehicles won't have this issue. But that means in the short term, Model 3 and lower users are screwed. And what's Tesla gonna do? Probably give you $5,000 off a new Model 4 or something, or they may do nothing at all.

It's a similar thing with Samsung. Google and OEMs have decided to finally implemented a standardized way to installing overlays on Oreo. However, the new implementation is incompatible with Sungstratum. And for the mean time, Sungstratum users are screwed. But now that OEMs have decided on a proper way of doing overlays, this means that Andromeda will work for the foreseeable future and not a hacked up solution like Sungstratum/Samsung's Nougat implementation.

Not to mention, this money helps fund Substratum development. Ya know, the base app that can theme apps? The one that's free? That isn't free to them - servers, developers, they all cost money. If Subs goes, theming goes.

But if you really do want to use Andromeda for free, just root your phone.

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15th February 2018, 05:10 AM |#13  
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ITT: Not developers.

Let's compare this to Microsoft and their Office line of products. Let's say you bought Office 2010 back in 2011 and have used it for around a year or 2. Then, Office 2013 came out. Why was it okay for them to charge an upgrade fee/new license fee for that upgrade? Even then, however, 2010 still worked.

This is akin to Sungstratum still working on Nougat. Do you want the upgrade or do you want to stay on an old version?

Just buy the thing or don't theme...
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15th February 2018, 07:07 AM |#14  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chfreak

Well paying $1-3 isnt the problem the problem is that it isn't my headache that what the developers have to do. I paid for something and i need support for it you just can't abadon a project and leave all user fustrated cuz a team of devs wants to make money every 6 months of so. That ain't fare to the users and in google play terms. All devs are transfering keys and i don't see them crying

Solution to combat the issue

Make the app free for 24 hours
Make the previous a key for this app to work then only users that have bought the app can access the new app and you guys will still get new users
Ask for a donation rather than imposing one i will happily donate but if you devs plan to use cheap tricks to get a new app that ain't happening

Did you read any of what I typed or...? Cuz I've addressed this argument twice now.
15th February 2018, 07:12 AM |#15  
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You guys have to realise that you bought an add-on, that in its description EXPLICITLY states that it allows the user of Substratum on Samsung Nougat (7.0/7.1.1). Nowhere did it say that it was guaranteed to support Oreo (8.0), or any future versions of Android.

The reason why Sungstratum can't be updated for Oreo support is because on Oreo, a different system of theming is used (OMS) than Nougat (RRO).

This isn't a question of personal greed, it's a question of system limitations. Heck, they are putting this add-on on sale to make it cheaper for not just migrating Sungstratum users, but anyone to hop onto the Andromeda train right now.

Now, some of you might ask, why can't they just update Sungstratum to clone Andromeda on Oreo? Well, this would create unnecessary work, and waste time for the Substratum developers by maintaining two branches of development for Andromeda and Sungstratum Oreo, instead of consolidating it into one project, and this also helps to reduce confusion, making sure which add-on you will need for Oreo.

So please, step back and have a think about why it has to be this way. Don't jump to conclusions.

Sent from my Samsung SM-G955F using XDA Labs
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15th February 2018, 07:32 AM |#16  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haloali

I expect the developers to let the users who already paid for it upgrade to the new version for free. It's what the customers are expecting. Anything else is retarded.

You do realize how software development works right? When you buy software, the developers give you a list of features and guarantee that it will do those features. If it doesn't, they'll fix it. There is NO guarantee of getting new features or an upgrade with the package you purchased; they are free to do so at their discretion but they are not obligated to. We have never stated that Sungstratum will be supported on Oreo.

So please, stop using our software. You clearly don't care how much time and effort we put into developing and supporting it.

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15th February 2018, 07:42 AM |#17  
I'm not here to argue.... I don't want this thread to be clean... But point blank if purchase a key, the key should work forever.. I purchased so many software keys.. App keys.. Ranging from titanium backup to Microsoft words to adgaurd... I don't mind supporting a dev. But to tell me a key is no longer working ehh...
15th February 2018, 07:45 AM |#18  
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No one is taking anything away from anyone, Sungstratum will still work just fine on nougat. Andromeda is another app altogether and the devs have put in many many hours of work on it, so everyone would be able to theme Oreo. I can't believe people are crying so hard over a couple of dollars.
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15th February 2018, 07:53 AM |#19  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haloali

I dislike users like you with your mindset. <mod snip>. It does not matter how much it is. It could be $0.99 for all I care. I am NOT paying for another app when I already paid for the Samsung Substratum add-on. The developer could easily give those users a free promo code but they would rather have them pay for another app again so they could increase their revenue. That's not fair from the end user's point of view.

A Reddit user put it best: "Sorry, just buy our other app! And in 6 months we'll make a newer, better one! You also need to buy that one too."

Andromeda was created with the unification of all OEMs in mind. Unlike Sungstratum, Andromeda is a utility app with a full suite of desktop apps made specifically for Oreo devices and above. Ever since the start, the Samsung addon explicitly stated that it would only support 7.0 and 7.1.1. Nowhere in the description has it ever said it would support Oreo because we can never ensure that it will be supported the same way with the hack we used. In Andromeda, we planned to stick with official Google documentation and access grants, with a plethora of new features coming down the line (was meant to be after we formally decided about the Samsung integration.)

As stated in the original post, there are only 500 codes per quarter. There are way more than 500 users on sungstratum.

We would like to clarify that the addon for Nougat support is NOT dead and the addon will keep working as long as you are running Android Nougat - as the addon advertised since day one in the description. We have not dropped support on Substratum side and the next build of subs will have a lot of build optimizations done specifically for Samsung Nougat.

Please keep in mind that we are working BEYOND the sandbox of a typical Play Store app or root app. We aren't SDMaid or Nova Launcher that will just work as long as you have root or simply, a way to install apps (third party launchers).

People said on Reddit that we could have just migrated people over to Oreo through a duplicate flavor in gradle. If they actually read the OP, it clearly stated that we would like to refrain from doing that as we are not only destroying the unified experience of Andromeda but also when we decide to give Andromeda many more features that were already in the works, Sungstratum users will DEMAND that they get the same treatment.

You're not buying "another Samsung addon" if you bought Andromeda. You can even hop on over to Huawei and rock your purchase there. You bought a Samsung addon for Nougat, you got the product that was advertised.
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15th February 2018, 08:54 AM |#20  
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So in Sungstratum add-on description there is statement "An add-on to enable Samsung mode for Samsung devices (Nougat 7.0 - 7.1.1)" and in Andromeda description the statement is "An add-on to enable rootless mode for stock Android Oreo devices (8.0+)". What happen if Android 9.x release? There would be another add-on and so on and so forth every Android version
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15th February 2018, 11:13 AM |#21  
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As an amateur developer & someone who bought Sungstratum, I can understand both sides in this argument.

I was among the first ones who tried unofficial method of moving overlays from system/overlay to data/overlay on my S6. I also tried installing those overlays on my non-rooted Note 5 and to some extent they did work.
However when sungstratum first published in Play Store, even rooted people had to buy the addon which I happily did. It was quite surprising to see something like substratum on Samsung's closed source touchwiz specially considering the quality of themes in Samsung's own Theme Store.

However I disagree with this
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanchance

We have never stated that Sungstratum will be supported on Oreo.

archive.org doesn't work on Play Store pages but I can still find early descriptions
I don't know when you changed play store description but back then you guys clearly stated that this will work later on.
Quote:

An add-on to enable rootless mode for Samsung devices (Nougat+/7.0+) on our main theme engine Substratum downloadable here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ekt.substratum

If Samsung now uses OMS just like every other OEM, then it means they've standardized their TouchWiz.
And now Samsung users have to pay twice to use substratum rootless which obviously they don't appreciate.

On the other hand, working on these kind of things and getting to stable stage is pretty time consuming, hard & sometimes demotivating. We saw the first lines about themes in Lollipop source code, and Google is still delaying the announcement of Theme Support in AOSP after three years. And [projekt.] team are the only ones who work on this ahead of time as far as I know so they need real support.
If you find rooting your device complicated and difficult (Which for the most people is the main reason of not rooting),before ranting devs take a minute to think how difficult and time taking substratum can get.
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