FORUMS
Remove All Ads from XDA

MHL with USB OTG?

33 posts
Thanks Meter: 57
 
By AndroidFan4, Member on 29th June 2012, 08:43 PM
Post Reply Email Thread
Has anyone found a MHL cable that also includes a USB OTG port? Samsung reportedly changed from a 5-pin configuration to an 11-pin configuration to allow MHL with USB Host mode simultaneously. Perhaps for a future Desktop Mode?

Has anyone been able to find one of these cables?
The Following User Says Thank You to AndroidFan4 For This Useful Post: [ View ] Gift AndroidFan4 Ad-Free
 
 
1st July 2012, 06:59 AM |#2  
OP Member
Thanks Meter: 57
 
More
Just wanted to update, I believe I found the type of connector that I was looking for, but it is missing HDMI and it is sold out. This essentially could give you PC type connectivity on the S3.

http://www.mobilefun.com/35462-mobil...-galaxy-s3.htm
2nd July 2012, 04:44 AM |#3  
Member
Thanks Meter: 10
 
More
I think we still have a bit of a wait. What you found is essentially a USB OTG hub with some card readers built in. I seriously doubt this will pass through the pins for HDMI to work out of the usb port. We'll see something when this phone finally launches everywhere. It's not even out in the US officially yet :P
15th July 2012, 09:46 AM |#4  
kynolin's Avatar
Senior Member
Flag St. Louis
Thanks Meter: 17
 
More
EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the article in the link in the OP. Man.. I might have to get me a GS3 now. I'm quite satisfied with the reasoning for a pin change. =)

Samsung sells 11 pin MHL adapters and USB female to Micro USB male adapters on their accessories page, but I'm not sure if you could piggy back the USB input into the charging port of the MHL cable. I don't see any all in one cables on their site, and the desktop dock is just micro usb/audio. I tried.. =(
Here's what I was looking at.

Old and mostly unrelated. See edit.
I happened to buy what looks exactly like that adapter today earlier at Micro Center. Now, I do have a Galaxy Nexus, but the USB OTG works great with keyboards/usb/mice/hubs; however, I cannot get it to simultaneously work with my MHL adapter. I understand the GS3 has a different pin layout though for MHL - my phone works with my MHL adapter correctly, but I didn't think it would have any change on the USB OTG. I'll most likely be breaking these apart and start tinkering. My goal is to show people how much of a full desktop-like experience I can provide from my phone, since so many people somehow think a GNex or GS3 are inferior to tablets, just because they're smaller... lol

Good luck finding information out on some kind of MHL/USB OTG setup. I'm just trying to provide any information I can from how my situation works with MHL/OTG, since I'm currently on the quest to achieve this myself.
15th July 2012, 06:36 PM |#5  
Senior Member
Thanks Meter: 66
 
More
Quote:
Originally Posted by kynolin

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the article in the link in the OP. Man.. I might have to get me a GS3 now. I'm quite satisfied with the reasoning for a pin change. =)

Samsung sells 11 pin MHL adapters and USB female to Micro USB male adapters on their accessories page, but I'm not sure if you could piggy back the USB input into the charging port of the MHL cable. I don't see any all in one cables on their site, and the desktop dock is just micro usb/audio. I tried.. =(
Here's what I was looking at.

Old and mostly unrelated. See edit.
I happened to buy what looks exactly like that adapter today earlier at Micro Center. Now, I do have a Galaxy Nexus, but the USB OTG works great with keyboards/usb/mice/hubs; however, I cannot get it to simultaneously work with my MHL adapter. I understand the GS3 has a different pin layout though for MHL - my phone works with my MHL adapter correctly, but I didn't think it would have any change on the USB OTG. I'll most likely be breaking these apart and start tinkering. My goal is to show people how much of a full desktop-like experience I can provide from my phone, since so many people somehow think a GNex or GS3 are inferior to tablets, just because they're smaller... lol

Good luck finding information out on some kind of MHL/USB OTG setup. I'm just trying to provide any information I can from how my situation works with MHL/OTG, since I'm currently on the quest to achieve this myself.

I'm not really sure why people think they NEED MHL and USB OTG simultaneously to get a "desktop-like experience". You can already accomplish this with just a plain MHL cable and a bluetooth keyboard and mouse as was demonstrated in the Connectivity Demo video on youtube.

Edit: Actually I just remembered about portable hard drives. If you want to hook up a mouse, keyboard AND hard drive I wonder if you can plug all three into a powered USB hub connected to a bluetooth dongle. Hmm...
15th July 2012, 07:33 PM |#6  
gedster314's Avatar
Senior Member
Oxnard, Ca
Thanks Meter: 115
 
More
I'm looking for a dock with USB OTG, charging and MHL. Maybe some day.
15th July 2012, 10:16 PM |#7  
Member
Houston, TX
Thanks Meter: 28
 
More
I believe this is already capable. Everything I say here is purely speculative, but what I see is that Samsung moved to a 11-pin connector for MHL and the standard 5-pin is no longer functioning. To call it MHL, they probably have to use the same standards for data encoding... but they simply "moved" the pins.

I put "moved" in quotes because of the way in which a standard 4 pin USB cable works (or 5 pin for our case)... you have a +5V, Ground, Data + and Data - (one data to phone, one data from phone, carrying ALL data). Since our phones still sync via 5-pin cables, this means the 5 pins are still "hot" for data like all other phones. I am presuming, that for the 11-pin connector, Samsung simply added a few more data+ and data- connectors (much like having two or three USB ports on a normal computer) but consolidated the ground/5V reference. I could be wrong, but it would make sense.

Lets call the stock 5 pin data connectors (2 wires) USB1. This is where MHL is conventionally sent through and all sycing can be completed through, 5 pin cable or 11 pin cable. If samsung added two additional USB ports to the single connector, lets say MHL is now over USB2 (wires inaccessible to 5 pin connectors). This frees up bandwidth and COM ports on USB1 and USB3 to use for accessories like a USB hard drive and keyboard/mouse. On a 5 pin connector, however, only USB1 is accessible. The Samsung 11pin to 5pin MHL adapter simply moves the data+/- from USB2 to USB1 (standard 5 pin location), so with the adapter you are syncing/exporting video over USB2 on the phone with a standard 5pin cable.

My thinking is such: If you plug in the OEM 11pin MHL adapter, it will also have access to the standard 5pin USB1 connection. Since USB2 is used for MHL, you can then plug any OTG device into the micro USB connector on the MHL adapter to make use of it. The only problem here is power (or lack thereof). By plugging in a USB hub with a discrete power source, plugging this into the MHL adapter, and plugging in the USB device of choice into the HUB, you *SHOULD* be able to get simultaneous data and HDMI. This assumes they put the standard 5 pins to the connector on the side of the MHL adapter and only wired the HDMI to the USB2 area.

Alternatively, you *SHOULD* be able to plug the micro USB cable from the MHL adapter into a computer, and simultaneously be able to sync files while outputting HDMI video. It sort of just comes down to being able to provide power to the MHL adapter on the +5V pin while using the data pins to access the phone. As soon as I have my MHL I'll figure it out, but that could be a bit. If anybody has access to a pinout from a Samsung 11 pin micro USB that would be helpful too.

Again, just dreaming here. I don't know anything about this, but if I was the engineer at Samsung I would choose this over analog outputs like Apple used for their giant connector.
15th July 2012, 10:39 PM |#8  
Senior Member
Thanks Meter: 28
 
More
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthung

I'm not really sure why people think they NEED MHL and USB OTG simultaneously to get a "desktop-like experience". You can already accomplish this with just a plain MHL cable and a bluetooth keyboard and mouse as was demonstrated in the Connectivity Demo video on youtube.

Edit: Actually I just remembered about portable hard drives. If you want to hook up a mouse, keyboard AND hard drive I wonder if you can plug all three into a powered USB hub connected to a bluetooth dongle. Hmm...

for me at least i already have several keyboards and mice ... none are bluetooth.

I'm looking for the cheapest option available.
17th July 2012, 01:09 AM |#9  
Senior Member
Thanks Meter: 22
 
More
I'm just hoping someone releases a cable with 4 plugs:
Male MHL - To Phone Obviously
Female MicroUSB: To plug in charger
Female HDMI - To Display
Female USB - To USB Device

That's all I want... should cost less than $2 to make, just sell it for $20 and I'd be happy.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to c4v3man For This Useful Post: [ View ] Gift c4v3man Ad-Free
23rd July 2012, 08:44 AM |#10  
Junior Member
Thanks Meter: 0
 
More
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8bait

I believe this is already capable. Everything I say here is purely speculative, but what I see is that Samsung moved to a 11-pin connector for MHL and the standard 5-pin is no longer functioning. To call it MHL, they probably have to use the same standards for data encoding... but they simply "moved" the pins.

I put "moved" in quotes because of the way in which a standard 4 pin USB cable works (or 5 pin for our case)... you have a +5V, Ground, Data + and Data - (one data to phone, one data from phone, carrying ALL data). Since our phones still sync via 5-pin cables, this means the 5 pins are still "hot" for data like all other phones. I am presuming, that for the 11-pin connector, Samsung simply added a few more data+ and data- connectors (much like having two or three USB ports on a normal computer) but consolidated the ground/5V reference. I could be wrong, but it would make sense.

Lets call the stock 5 pin data connectors (2 wires) USB1. This is where MHL is conventionally sent through and all sycing can be completed through, 5 pin cable or 11 pin cable. If samsung added two additional USB ports to the single connector, lets say MHL is now over USB2 (wires inaccessible to 5 pin connectors). This frees up bandwidth and COM ports on USB1 and USB3 to use for accessories like a USB hard drive and keyboard/mouse. On a 5 pin connector, however, only USB1 is accessible. The Samsung 11pin to 5pin MHL adapter simply moves the data+/- from USB2 to USB1 (standard 5 pin location), so with the adapter you are syncing/exporting video over USB2 on the phone with a standard 5pin cable.

My thinking is such: If you plug in the OEM 11pin MHL adapter, it will also have access to the standard 5pin USB1 connection. Since USB2 is used for MHL, you can then plug any OTG device into the micro USB connector on the MHL adapter to make use of it. The only problem here is power (or lack thereof). By plugging in a USB hub with a discrete power source, plugging this into the MHL adapter, and plugging in the USB device of choice into the HUB, you *SHOULD* be able to get simultaneous data and HDMI. This assumes they put the standard 5 pins to the connector on the side of the MHL adapter and only wired the HDMI to the USB2 area.

Alternatively, you *SHOULD* be able to plug the micro USB cable from the MHL adapter into a computer, and simultaneously be able to sync files while outputting HDMI video. It sort of just comes down to being able to provide power to the MHL adapter on the +5V pin while using the data pins to access the phone. As soon as I have my MHL I'll figure it out, but that could be a bit. If anybody has access to a pinout from a Samsung 11 pin micro USB that would be helpful too.

Again, just dreaming here. I don't know anything about this, but if I was the engineer at Samsung I would choose this over analog outputs like Apple used for their giant connector.

hi v8bait, are you able to get data thru the micro usb port at the side of the 11-pin mhl adapter? i was thinking of using the motorola lapdock with my s3 thru the mhl adaptor (other then a micro hdmi male connector, the lapdock also has a micro usb male connector that apparently send out power as well as push keyboard/trackpad data upstream) - if it works, we can have an inexpensive "clambook"
23rd July 2012, 10:13 PM |#11  
Member
Thanks Meter: 2
 
More
Just to recap,

Will this we possible:

Official MHL adapter -> hdmi to monitor.
|
>OTG cable> Powered USB hub> USB keyboard & mouse.

In other words, the PC Experience with a keyboard and mouse.

Dont really want to spend the money to buy a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse when the USB ones can work just fine (theoretically).
Post Reply Subscribe to Thread

Guest Quick Reply (no urls or BBcode)
Message:
Previous Thread Next Thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes