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Actually you are somewhat correct there. I was out if line. Just been lurking here for ages and donating when I had extra cash. Just finally got something that made me want to participate. So sorry for being an ass to someone who probably deserved it.
And the newfag comment was in reference to a person who actually have no idea to how much this communities devs have contributed.
But yeah was really unnecessary.
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I just wish Samsung could stop being so damn ambiguous on their Twitter.
I bet Entropy512 could tell us a whole story about how Samsung valued and cared about their opinions a few months/years ago. ^^
Exactly! Here's my response to them on G+:
+Samsung Mobile I really hope you aren't giving us crap about that but I find it hard to believe because of the way you have been handling this until now. If you aren't just giving us crap to shut us up because the comunity finally spoke and then not doing anything anymore you should really be more specific, say why you'd release/not release the things we need, when and stop using marketing bulls**t ambigous terms like "we'll look into it" or "we're working on it".
I think we shouldn't stop flooding until we get a clear response.
Sorry but that's a very immature way to make a response.
egzthunder1
Admin Emeritus - Spirit of XDA
huh? what in the world are you talking about?
The two greatest lies from them so far:
1. We value your opinions.
2. We are working on a solution.
What they are working on, is a way to shut us up and not giving us any crap of use.
I totally agree with you. I made that response specificaly hard so they know that we aren't playing and we are tired of their lies even though I'm aware of the fact that many will take it as immature.
egzthunder1
Admin Emeritus - Spirit of XDA
Cursing and being disrespectful towards them is actually going to make things worse, you know? whether it is BS or not...
They are well aware of what we all think, it's just that they don't want to give us what we want. They instead insist on making their answers look good to the public. Like "we really value your opinions and will find a solution"
Bull****, really. I mean, if they wanted to find a solution, they'd have done it by now.
i think it´s time that we should have someone to speak with them (Samsung) for all of us, representing the comunity.
We had someone speak to Samsung a few years ago and we basically got a big fat no slammed in our faces. Ask Entropy512.
egzthunder1
Admin Emeritus - Spirit of XDA
Not quite... If I read Entropy's case correctly, he was promised a fix for the brick bug, which never came to be. Shortly after the publishing of the first articles on the brick bug, Samsung released kernel sources for the affected devices (that had the official builds out). They did not tell him "no" but they never delivered the fix they were supposed to...
Well if that's what your expecting, your going to be disappointed. Sorry.
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That would've been enough to keep us from leaving, but now that we're on the way out, we're not coming back unless Samsung starts living up to the standards set by TI and Qualcomm as far as SoC source and documentation. If we have the option of working with a robust, well-documented platform, why would we waste our time with one that has substandard documentation?
And that is why this whole mess started. We've been polite and have been using "official" channels for more than a year. Nothing happened. Just abuse and disrespect. This tactic change represents the last resort of a community responding to a number of developers saying, "I'm sick of this **** and going elsewhere."
BTW, I responded to Samsung's G+ post... (Actually, a comment on one of their posts) as follows:
me said:49
Well, believe it or not, I think Samsung is just totally out of touch with reality. I don't think anyone in management was aware of just how good of a reference CodeAurora and Omapzoom are, and what Sony has been doing to attract developers. We've tried to tell them in the past, but the fact that the firewall is a minefield of **** that will cause responses to just get dropped has pretty much blocked proper discussion. I kind of ranted at their contact that Samsung's ridiculous firewall policies WERE a part of the problem.
That's the problem... What is happening here is the result of all other avenues failing. This is the "we have reached our limits of patience and have nothing to lose" point.
What does Samsung have to lose? Anyone who considered AOSP support or firmware quality/openness in their buying decisions, or received recommendations from those who did. There are a minimum of 130,000 confirmed installs of Cyanogenmod on Exynos4 devices. An increasing number of users are becoming aware of why their devices is CONSTANTLY behind others in terms of updates. Those users are power users who likely are sought out by their friends for recommendations.
atinm and I both pointed out to our contact that they should take a close look at HTC - While we have no way of proving causation, there is a clear correlation in time between their fall from grace with the developer community due to bootloader locking and their market share crashing.
What do we have to lose? Nothing. If Samsung doesn't play ball, we just go buy Nexus devices or Sonys. I do feel somewhat sorry for those who may have difficulty purchasing a new device... But it's not that hard to eBay their device and buy a GNex. I've put in too many hours of my own free time and lost too much sleep to continue on unless something significant changes. Fighting Exynos has drained my passion for development. The XDA guys wanted me to talk at the BABBQ about a recent project or future one that gets me excited... My talk is going to suck because I really haven't done anything innovative or exciting for months. Just fixing/working around stupid bugs I shouldn't have to deal with, and countless hours reverse engineering crap I'd have clean source code for if I were working with OMAP or Qualcomm.
This is what happens when a manufacturer neglects a community to the point where members of that community start breaking.37They released the 5250 development board and site together with a 800 page user's manual, something which we didn't have before for any SoC. I'll have to see what they uploaded on the Git as it's quite a lot.
Edit: from what I can see at first glance they have 4.1.1 Jellybean sources up there and apparently the newest stuff.2927I think Samsung should treat their customers as valuable because we are the ones who made their company known. I dont know why is this small piece of code such a big secret. Probably they think they found the best way to optimize it to be fastest and they dont want to share so other companies wont take advantage of the code. Selfish isnt it? Its about time and im sure we will see the sources soon if we keep spreading the world about it.
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Err... lulwut?!? Please tell me you are not serious. What you are stating is the equivalent of wondering why Coca Cola does not share their recipe with the rest of the world. It is not a matter of it being a secret, it is intellectual property. They made and developed the SoC, why should they share documentation on how it is made, least of all with us? It isn't a matter of it being a selfish act, it is how the real world business' operate.
No. PR will have to obey whatever decision comes down from Engineering, and Sales, and other branches of management, not the other way around.
Ok, you guys may or may not know who I am and what I do around here. Out of everything, one of my biggest things is to advocate for a more open atmosphere and general openness coming from device mfgs to us (the development community). We have had numerous "movements" hosted on xda including petitions, news articles, and more, which were all directed to companies asking them to open up their stuff to us, and normally I fully support those.
Having said that, and I know I will earn the hatred of a few people in here, I cannot support what you guys are doing in here. Bombarding communication channels of a company because you want something out of them? Might as well try to DDoS them and threaten them in the process. But I am getting ahead of myself... lets take a step back for a second here.
The OP on this thread titled this thread "Let's get some Exynos sources". Nothing wrong with that, perfectly good request. However, having looked through the entire 18 -19 pages that this thread has grown into, I see that what you guys are truly asking for has nothing to do with what you are explicitly asking to get. The documentation for the SoC is information that the likes of AdamOutler, Rebellos, E:V:A, Entropy and just a handful of other people could make some use out of. What you guys are asking for in here are:
* codecs
* libs
* API
and various other pieces of code that seldomly relate to the processor in any way, shape, or form (the graphic libs relate to the gpu, so there is a small connection there, but nothing of the caliber of the kind of documentation that you get with the information about the chips). These pieces of code are more or less related to ROM and kernel and, like someone pointed out earlier in this thread, are either proprietary or licensed under Apache, which does NOT force anyone to release any kind of source. GPL is the code that needs to have the source shared, not Apache. So, what you guys are doing here is wrong from the get go as you are not even sure of what you are asking for in the first place. If I was working with Samsung, the first (and likely ONLY) question I would ask whoever asks for this information would be
"Why do you need it? What are you intending to do with it? Can you give me specific examples of projects/improvements you would like to work on with this information?"
I can almost guarantee you that, aside from XplodWild (only name I have seen in this thread), likely not a single one of you could answer this question with a precise answer. Answers of the kind
"I want to make the phone better"
"I want to make the phone faster"
"I want to make the phone less laggy"
"I want to run CMx with a working cam and better sound"
"I want my SGS3 cam to make me an espresso while I take a picture"
and answers of that sort are ALL invalid and will take you absolutely nowhere. The kind of things you could use this information for would be to do things of the caliber that Adam does (Unbrickable Mod Resurrector, etc). Documentation about the SoC would allow you to communicate and interact with the chip via some sort of interface (UART, etc) as you would know stuff about the schematics of the damn thing. Unless you are into really heavy low level coding (ie making a kernel from scratch) or hardware hacking, you will not need this simply because you cannot use it.
The devs who have a need for this have already requested this without any success (like xplodewild has stated before). I know for a fact that Adam has done so as well and Entropy during the brick bug dilemma. Understand that Samsung is under NO obligation whatsoever to provide anyone with anything. To them, we represent a very small number (about 1% in total sales), which I believe are BS statistics tbh as there is no way to effectively determine this without literally asking people at the time of purchase if they are developers or not. Let alone the fact that we do have an effect on indirect sales (referrals, word of mouth, etc). I digress though... One of the posts that I quoted stated that without us, they would not be as big as they are right now. I am sorry but while that may hold true for the likes of HTC who ONLY manufacture mobile devices, when you have a company like Samsung, with a name THAT big... I am sorry to burst your bubble, but we did not make Samsung the company they are today.
Now, doing what you are doing is extremely unprofessional, and by hosting it/organizing it on xda, you are making the entire community (including those devs who actually need these docs) to look like a bunch of whiny kids who throw a tantrum because they don't get what they want. Hypothetically speaking, if I was working with Samsung and I had already dealt with requests for this from devs, and all of the sudden I saw a mass move like this, I would personally reconsider ever paying attention at all to the developer world mainly due to the high level of childishness and whining.
If you guys decide to go ahead with this, please do not use xda-developers as a home base because quite frankly, we do not condone this kind of behavior (bombarding comm channels and mass mailing a company to get something), regardless of motives. If you want to do it in a more polite and professional way, make a petition in change.org or something along those lines. This has worked wonders with Motorola and Asus in the past with the locked bootloaders (this is a different beast though). However, based on the responses I have seen already in this thread, I can almost guarantee you that this is not going anywhere as it is right now. Samsung never released docs for the Hummingbird or even earlier iterations of the Exynos... whatever makes you think that they will release the docs for their latest flagship (proprietary) chip is really beyond my understanding.
Again, sorry if this comes out harsh. I do want to see Samsung being more open (like all of you do), but this is certainly not the way to go about it.
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