Why Windows 8 WILL and WONT FAIL.
- Thread starter benjamingwynn
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I dont know precisely why all the operating systems are trying for convergence so hard. The current state of play is that Windows is defacto for computers, IOS is defacto for tablets and Android is becoming the largest player in the smartphone world, slowly but surely. Three differing systems. It's even affecting Linux, Unity and Gnome3 being obviously designed with tablet considerations... and being visually bloated. The former being the reason I'm transitioning to Debian. There seems to be a lot of redesign for designs sake.
MS have pinned much on Metro... trying to unify WinPhone7, XBox, Tablets and PC... and really are charging blindly down that path. I see a shipping drop for MS if Windows ships with forced Metro... and massive user backlash, of unseen proportions. Having tried to program on the thing... im quite certain its hateful. It might be a content consumption OS but its useless for real work. It could not only be a diaster on the PC but have a knock on effect to products with similar interfaces, putting people off those products.
People expect Windows to just be similar, and I dread to think what support will be like, and the massive amounts of user training that will be required on corporate levels. Getting users to follow any instructions at all is like herding cats. A long and torrid time for IT support awaits, that much is certain. MS don't have the luxury of being on the forefront of design, they need to be simple to transition between.
This has the feeling of Vista, but worse. The technology enthiusiasts aren't overly fussed from what I read, and plenty of them run IT departments. I can't see corporates being on side, and they are losing enthiusiasts... so really they have those poor people who buy a new PC like a few years ago, getting lumped with Vista... they couldn't even force gamers with the delights of DX10. IT budgets are tight, and training isn't cheap. Really poor timing.
All I want is a choice to disable Metro, because Windows 8 would be seriously great otherwise. Unless something drastic is done, its going to fail, and fail hard.
MS have pinned much on Metro... trying to unify WinPhone7, XBox, Tablets and PC... and really are charging blindly down that path. I see a shipping drop for MS if Windows ships with forced Metro... and massive user backlash, of unseen proportions. Having tried to program on the thing... im quite certain its hateful. It might be a content consumption OS but its useless for real work. It could not only be a diaster on the PC but have a knock on effect to products with similar interfaces, putting people off those products.
People expect Windows to just be similar, and I dread to think what support will be like, and the massive amounts of user training that will be required on corporate levels. Getting users to follow any instructions at all is like herding cats. A long and torrid time for IT support awaits, that much is certain. MS don't have the luxury of being on the forefront of design, they need to be simple to transition between.
This has the feeling of Vista, but worse. The technology enthiusiasts aren't overly fussed from what I read, and plenty of them run IT departments. I can't see corporates being on side, and they are losing enthiusiasts... so really they have those poor people who buy a new PC like a few years ago, getting lumped with Vista... they couldn't even force gamers with the delights of DX10. IT budgets are tight, and training isn't cheap. Really poor timing.
All I want is a choice to disable Metro, because Windows 8 would be seriously great otherwise. Unless something drastic is done, its going to fail, and fail hard.
Are you serious about this? damm then i am gonna run win8 full time on my laptop then
I don't think you know what your talking about. What massive user backlash?
the anti MS crew are admittedly much louder in there FUD spreading abilities but they are not the majority, the poll I started on here kind of suggests that.
I also find it interesting when people compare it to vista. because the only issue with vista was that it was a big drain on system resources and was a bit slow, UAC was a bit overwhelming and it wasn't as backward compatible as it should have been.
Now, personally, not a single one of those issues are in any way shape or form anything like the experience I get in windows 8. When people say its vista 2, all they are doing is regurgitating comments heard over the net without any real thought behind it.
Its also funny you are talking about tha failier of Unity an all the other "graphical" displays but what you seem to fail to understand is that power users, are a minority, every day jo blogs are what MS is targeting, and good for them, because power users don't bring them money. Apple is a perfect example of handing out a crap UI (in my mind) to the masses and doing very well with it, why? not because its a tech OS, but because its simple.
Dont underestimate the power of consumers, having a similar OS that is integrated across several platforms will be lapped up by every day jo blogs
I've talked to a few peeps from the 8 dev team. They said they pulled the Win 7 like UI stuff to force the app developers and others to Metro. The options for the Start Menu and making it Desktop friendy will be back in the final. Windows 8 will be everything you hoped for and then some.
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ive heard this too but trying to push back the tidalwave of anti Win8 FUD is almost impossible, simply put they dont want to listen, metro needed testing, not desktop, metro needed development not desktop.
what i find really disapointing is so called professionals slagging WP and win8 off whilst proclaiming everything Linux based is the best. The OS is here to test people! Compertition is good folks, WP had a bad rap not because it wasnt any good but because of the mountain of bad press it got because of what it wasnt, rather than what it was.
I fear win 8 will be the same unless common sense comes back to those vocal few and people ignore the wide spread FUD placed out there
I have used window 8 quite a bit and to those who downplay it I respond: try it. It's far better than anything any tablet runs or has ever ran. With the way the laptop market is headed, ms thought ahead and made what will hopefully prove to be a brilliant business move: total convergence. I love Android, but it will never compete with windows.
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OK, so let's go item by item, shall we?
Let me give you an example of why it's a good thing, though. I have a friend who's a graphic designer, and has been for about 30 years. He's in his early 50's, and has used Macs for most of his career, but a Windows 7 PC since 2 years ago. A couple of weeks ago, his PC died, and I cobbled together a temporary replacement to hold him over until I can get his motherboard, which died, RMA'd. For the sake of curiosity, I asked if he'd want to try Windows 8 since this was a temporary PC anyway, and he said with a shrug, "why not?" So I configured the system (an old Pentium D 915, 2GB RAM, 320GB 7200RPM hard drive, vs his Core 2 Quad, 8GB RAM, 64GB SSD with 1TB HDD) and installed his programs, gave him a very brief (literally, 10 minutes) tour of Windows 8, and sent him home.
That just made my day. I do have to agree that newer versions of Windows seem to run really well on old machines, although I do prefer a real rig for my gaming
I think I agree with you here man. I more or less had similar thoughts.
Desktop will be a big problem. MS is pushing hard so that devs come and design apps. I am using a Hackintosh, OS X Lion and believe me, its a great experience. For Apple, it's the other way round. Devs knock on their door.
Anyways, this is what I have to say. I may be wrong.
It's light weight than windows 7, so in any circumstance you could use 7, 8 will be as good if not better.
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Does everything "new" in xda have this thread , I think the same people write them up for every device in XDA ,why will it fail or succeed! Its comical! Of course a minute after its released you'll have the crowd whining about "when is the update?"
Windows 8 will fail because...
1. It's made for a tablet
2. It's ****
3. It's made for a phone
4. It's gay
5. It's made for a console
6. It's retarded
7. Isn't this kinda like Windows Media Center?
8. DURRRRRRRRRRR
1. It's made for a tablet
2. It's ****
3. It's made for a phone
4. It's gay
5. It's made for a console
6. It's retarded
7. Isn't this kinda like Windows Media Center?
8. DURRRRRRRRRRR
ok, ill bite
1, 3, 5 and the one you missed, Desktop
yes, Win 8 is made around them, to a degree, but they will all be the better for it.
2, 4, and 6 - Last time I checked it wasn't ****, its software and im pretty sure its not a physical thing, unlike the ****, lets say, that comes out of you.
Gay, well im pretty sure AI hasn't improved to the point it can be happy and for the other Gay meaning, I think you need to do ask your parents about the birds and the bees as I don't think binary 1s and 0s could be homosexual/
and as for being retarded, your kinda getting a bit offensive now, having a mental or learning disability is not a joking matter
7, Media centre??? what on earth do you mean, that's the only part of Win 8 that MS has openly said they haven't touched since 7 and that UI isn't that different from the previous versions of MCE, I think your a bit confused, which conveniently brings us to your number 8, after reading that I think your may be a bit caught up with your number 2s and perhaps (no offence intended)number 6, best go to the toilet or take a wee rest from the keyboard.
Another satisfied/braindead Apple customer
Sorry but no. Apple can take their expensively useless products and bury them with their founder.
Sorry but no. Apple can take their expensively useless products and bury them with their founder.
Too soon.
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26OK, so let's go item by item, shall we?
1. "Not designed for desktops". Let's consider for a moment the numerous posts on the Windows 8 Team Blog describing how it's been CAREFULLY designed for desktops. It's clear on that point alone that this item just doesn't have any weight to it. But more importantly, having used it on a desktop and a Macbook Pro, neither of which have touch screens, it's actually really easy to use. So easy, in fact, that I have a great example for later.
2. "Not Enterprise Friendly". Let's ask ourselves: what does it mean for something to be "Enterprise friendly" ? I've worked in IT for 16 years, from desktop support to Systems Engineer, so I'll tell you. Enterprise Friendly means that the OS supports centralized, granular management by IT staff, is easy to customize in terms of features and security via centralized mechanisms, and has extensive documentation and support from either specialized staff or from the vendor. Windows 8 has ALL of these. It's clearly a VERY Enterprise Friendly operating system. So friendly, in fact, that you can still connect it to an Active Directory server from Windows 2000--an OS that released approximately a dozen years ago. I agree that in the short term, not a lot of businesses will adopt Windows 8, but that's because of the hardware, not the UI. Most OS upgrades happen along with hardware upgrades. Over the next 2 years, corporate adoption will be slow, but small businesses will adopt it both for the "ooh, shiny" factor and for the fact that many can't afford not to. Over the following 3-5, corporate adoption will skyrocket. The home PC market will take care of most of the "average worker" learning curve. They'll master the software at home, end of story.
3. "A New UI." This is probably Windows 8's greatest weakness AND its greatest strength. The new UI will intimidate SOME people--but not most people. It's so simple, so elegant, so easy to use, that the vast majority of people will easily understand how to use it. It's the power users and the hangers-on to old tech who will struggle, and they'll have mostly made it difficult for themselves.
Let me give you an example of why it's a good thing, though. I have a friend who's a graphic designer, and has been for about 30 years. He's in his early 50's, and has used Macs for most of his career, but a Windows 7 PC since 2 years ago. A couple of weeks ago, his PC died, and I cobbled together a temporary replacement to hold him over until I can get his motherboard, which died, RMA'd. For the sake of curiosity, I asked if he'd want to try Windows 8 since this was a temporary PC anyway, and he said with a shrug, "why not?" So I configured the system (an old Pentium D 915, 2GB RAM, 320GB 7200RPM hard drive, vs his Core 2 Quad, 8GB RAM, 64GB SSD with 1TB HDD) and installed his programs, gave him a very brief (literally, 10 minutes) tour of Windows 8, and sent him home.
The next day he called me. "Hey, about Windows 8." I got a little nervous as he said that. "Yes? Any problems?" I asked. "No," he replied, "It's ****ing brilliant. What the hell are the specs on this machine, because it's way faster than mine is!" I grinned. "Actually, that's a really old machine, not anywhere close to as fast as yours. How about the UI, any trouble there?" "Hell no," he said, "It's easy. Easiest UI I've ever used. Microsoft finally nailed it." That's from a guy who is 2 things: A graphic designer, and a MAC guy. Seriously.
4. "Desktop and Metro": See above. Microsoft made the right choice. There will be a learning curve, that's an unavoidable fact. But it's not a steep one, in part thanks to training people have already gone through on their *smartphones*, their *ipads*, *ipods*, and to a lesser extent, Android tablets. Touch has already become part of the dialog we have with our computers.
5. "Complex". Are we talking about the same OS? Windows 8 is butt-ass simple. I could choose many, many words to describe Windows 8--not ONE of them is "complex". Are things moved around? Sure. Do some things work differently than in the past? Absolutely. Will people who've been trained and practiced on older versions, and learned to use deep features in those versions, find some frustration? Without a doubt. The average user? They'll be just fine.
On the last point about power, I just called my friend mentioned above to ask, "Hey, have you had any trouble figuring out how to turn off the power on your PC?" His reply? "I don't even mess with it, man, I just walk away and it goes to sleep."
People will adapt just fine. They adapted to Windows 95. They adapted to iPods/iPads/iPhones/Android phones. They'll adopt to this, too. don't be such a worry-wart3
Actually that hasn't been true for a very long time.
All major platforms have many security holes. Windows has proven itself very secure by virtue of the fact that microsoft has been very responsive towards ongoing threats. The changes to windows vista brought about dramatic security enhancements of the underlying OS.
In fact most windows malware aren't vectored into the underlying OS itself, but rather vulnerable third party software such as java, flash, acrobat, etc. Whats interesting is that the design of the OS itself mitigates most of these vulnerabilities, so microsoft is even compensating for the mistakes of other companies.
Windows and Linux are roughly on par with one another in terms of security these days.
However windows has an advantage that other platforms do not: Antivirus software on the windows platform has a heuristics detection rate of 90% of undocumented threats. That is a rate most in the computer security field hadn't anticipated a few years ago. It is so high, that malware authors have begun to target something that is statistically "bigger and easier" to hit: Mac OSX.
Although OSX has a very tiny market share, the chances of a successful attack against mac users is high enough that it is a more attractive target than windows these days. Not only that, but apple is VERY SLOW when it comes to responding to malware threats. The last one took them two months to respond to. That is an eternity in the security field. In addition to that, most Mac OSX users tend to live under the belief that macs don't get hit by viruses (primarily because apple tells them this,) and likewise they don't protect themselves accordingly. Needless to say, this makes them very attractive targets for the criminal underground.
If you don't believe me though, then don't take my word for it. Just look at the results of the pwn2own contest year after year.2Sorry but no. Apple can take their expensively useless products and bury them with their founder.
Too soon.
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Oh... that's nice. You might as well ride a horse instead of a car. Guess what, it worked for thousand years. At one point switching from horseback to steam powered carriage was only for the brave, but that was PROGRESS.
And who holds a gun to your head forcing you to use windows 8? Do the things you do the way you do them and leave the rest to people with imagination.
Why 22" tablet? Why not go all the way to 60"? If you could actually read what I was saying, you will see that I never suggested to replace your 22" monitor with a tablet. I personally think that smaller touchscreen (doesn't even need to be a separate tablet) can be a great addition if there is a good integration with desktop OS. Android and IOS can't provide this at the moment. Windows 8 can and hopefully with time there will be more innovative ways of using it.
And guy, I'm not selling you anything! But if you want to know, you won't find much wires at my place.
Keyboard is wireless and gets charged very rarely. Mouse is wireless and battery is replaced once a year or so. Printer is wireless. Sure it is connected to power source, but it is hidden. If I need to print something from my android tablet, I can. I also have bluetooth adapter for audio, so I can use the speakers from any device that I have without touching any cables.
I have three monitors on my desk connected to a full tower rig. You won't find that tower though, because it is in another room, behind a wall. Why? Because I like quiet! Instead of spending hundreds on sophisticated quiet cooling, I just moved my PC from my workplace. All I have are some hidden USB extension cables that I occasionally use.
My both big screen TVs are 0.3" away from the wall. Wires are hidden as well. Connecting additional HDMI source is possible, but inconvenient. I didn't try to make it convenient, because I don't need it.
My point here is that with all the wireless technology that we have, you will be able to, in a blink of an eye, connect your tablet to a keyboard, mouse, printer and big screen without touching a single wire and turn your tablet into a desktop. If you need power, it is a lot more accessible, than other components. And again, if you don't need it, if you don't want it, then stay away from it. I personally don't plan to replace my desktop PC any time soon, but I sure would love to have a 7" touchscreen for metro, next to my keyboard.
Not that long time ago we had laptops that can only go 2 hours while simply working in word document. Now we have smaller, lighter and faster devices that can go 18 hours without charge (how about asus transformer).
We are still talking about controlling big screen tv with your tablet, right? How about this. You go to a hotel room, touch TV remote with your tablet to connect via NFC. You browse netflix movie selection on your tablet. No need to look on big screen and interface is actually faster to use with touch, rather than keyboard and mouse. Then start what you want and enjoy the show on big screen tv via WiDi. You can then pause, play, stop whatever you're watching with tv remote control. You might as well put tablet aside or charge it.
