[POLL] Black clipping / black crush

Do you experience "black crush" on your Galaxy Note?

  • Severe crush (can see the number 1 in test image)

    Votes: 74 57.4%

  • Moderate crush (can see up to numbers 2-4)

    Votes: 20 15.5%

  • Minor crush (can see up to numbers 5-6)

    Votes: 6 4.7%

  • No, tones gradually go to black.

    Votes: 29 22.5%
  • Total voters
    129
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jpg71

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2005
289
65
tenderchkn said:
Sorry if my explanation is confusing, but what you see in his pictures are not what you will see in real life. His images are very overexposed, which illustrates the problem better. Your picture was underexposed, which hides the problem. Because of this, I had to extrapolate based on what I saw and made an educated guess.

To make a apples-to-apples comparison, you need to take a picture and expose the image so that the brightness of the "21" box matches the brightness of what my image in the OP, or talonted pictures look like. Then you compare the brightness of "1" box to talonted's middle picture. My phone looks like the two on the side. The one in the middle is correct, or at least closer to correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

OK, I tried to overexpose my shot as best I could. I think I may have overdone it, but I thought I'd add another picture of my phone, now running the Seraphim ICS ROM on it.

You can clearly see the drop from 1 to 0 on this one, but as you say - what you see in this pic is not what you see in real life. I guess I see what you guys are talking about now that I've overexposed the shot, but in "real life", it works well enough for me that I'm going to hang on to this one. Dark Netflix/Youtube videos come through fine for me.

Again, I understand what you're saying now, and I agree that all of these Notes appear to have some deficiencies in rendering a smooth fade from black to grey from 0 to 1 and beyond.
 

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wish777

wish777

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2012
1,774
1,147
Cleveland
OnePlus 6T
jjc5891 said:
Where in build.prop do you see this? I can't find it anywhere in the ICS build.prop...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

/System/build prop I opened it as a text editor.....strange but those are color values but to what???

#calibrated values for the HSIC params
persist.csc.poll=1
persist.csc.hue=0
persist.csc.saturation=0.17
persist.csc.intensity=0
persist.csc.contrast=0.0
 
J

jjc5891

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2012
274
141
wish777 said:
/System/build prop I opened it as a text editor.....strange but those are color values but to what???

#calibrated values for the HSIC params
persist.csc.poll=1
persist.csc.hue=0
persist.csc.saturation=0.17
persist.csc.intensity=0
persist.csc.contrast=0.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

It must be a gingerbread thing. These aren't there in ICS.
 
T

tenderchkn

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2012
143
23
jpg71 said:
OK, I tried to overexpose my shot as best I could. I think I may have overdone it, but I thought I'd add another picture of my phone, now running the Seraphim ICS ROM on it.

You can clearly see the drop from 1 to 0 on this one, but as you say - what you see in this pic is not what you see in real life. I guess I see what you guys are talking about now that I've overexposed the shot, but in "real life", it works well enough for me that I'm going to hang on to this one. Dark Netflix/Youtube videos come through fine for me.

Again, I understand what you're saying now, and I agree that all of these Notes appear to have some deficiencies in rendering a smooth fade from black to grey from 0 to 1 and beyond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I think something must have changed, either with ICS or QuickPic. On the left is a photo I posted a few weeks ago. This was stock GB. On the right is a photo that I just took. I'm on DAGr8's alpha 2. Same phone, same exposure. Clipping is definitely reduced. Dark grays are definitely darker compared to what they were in GB. This reflects with your new photo, and schrochem's photos show. This is definitely a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately, this improvement shows in QuickPic only. Gallery, browser, video players, etc, still show hard clipping between 6 and 7.

3.jpg
 
J

jjc5891

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2012
274
141
Confirmed with quickpic not showing clipping in ics. I can very faintly still see the 1 block in a completely dark room, but the transition to pure black is very good and probably unnoticeable in anything but a dark room. Much better than before, although the stock gallery shows clipping at 7
 
Last edited:
T

tenderchkn

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2012
143
23
jjc5891 said:
Confirmed with quickpic not showing clipping in ics. I can very faintly still see the 1 block in a completely dark room, but the transition to pure black is very good and probably unnoticeable in anything but a dark room. Much better than before, although the stock gallery shows clipping at 7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Same here. Can see box 1 in completely dark room, but the transition is much better. Since this change is only present in QuickPic and ICS (latest QuickPic in GB apparently results in no change), the evidence here is beginning to point to a software problem.

Now, how do we begin to figure out why the combination of QuickPic and ICS shows improvement, and how can we apply this system wide?
 
P

paleh0rse

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2011
1,942
627
Does QuickPic still have the 32bit setting ("Force true color deciding") on ICS? If so, does selecting it change the results?

Menu -> Settings -> View
 
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P

paleh0rse

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2011
1,942
627
If we can determine what makes Quickpic unique, we would be one step closer.

Perhaps we could/should contact the Quickpic author to see if he/she/they would help us...
 
jpeg42

jpeg42

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2010
875
341
Oregon
paleh0rse said:
If we can determine what makes Quickpic unique, we would be one step closer.

Perhaps we could/should contact the Quickpic author to see if he/she would help us...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I checked out the site of the author, it is all in Chinese. But might be worth a shot. I dunno, I am a bit stumped. I even tried to remove Quickpic, clear my cache, and revert to my old TiBu backup of the previous version, but couldn't recreate the clipping.
 
T

tenderchkn

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2012
143
23
Changing the force 32-bit rendering setting doesn't change anything, nor did it change anything in GB. So I don't think it's a 32-bit vs 16-bit issue. After all, we're not dealing with banding here.

Also, since the gamma test picture is rendered with each box different than the next, this is proof that it is rendered in 32-bit. 32-bit color is 8-bits per channel, which means 256 different levels of gray. 16-bit color has 4-bits per channel, or 16 levels of gray. If the test image was rendered in 16-bit, then boxes 1-4, 5-8, etc, would look identical. Since they're all unique, I think we can conclude that it is rendered in 32-bit.

So it's a completely different reason why QuickPic works and stock gallery doesn't.

Edit: Yup, just confirmed this by setting my computer to 16-bit color.
 
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J

jjc5891

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2012
274
141
If you look closely when the image first loads with quickpic, the first few milliseconds the image is displayed, it shows clipping at box 8 and under and then boxes 1-7 are renderred shortly after load. It's almost like some sort of setting is turned on or something.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA Premium HD app
 
C

cgibsong002

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2011
514
24
PA
jjc5891 said:
If you look closely when the image first loads with quickpic, the first few milliseconds the image is displayed, it shows clipping at box 8 and under and then boxes 1-7 are renderred shortly after load. It's almost like some sort of setting is turned on or something.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

yup, same here. However there's still a clip at 1. It looked fixed to me once again until I looked at it in the pitch dark then I could clearly see the clipping.

Sent from my Samsung Nizzote
 
T

tenderchkn

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2012
143
23
cgibsong002 said:
yup, same here. However there's still a clip at 1. It looked fixed to me once again until I looked at it in the pitch dark then I could clearly see the clipping.

Sent from my Samsung Nizzote
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Well, there is always going to be a "clip" at 1. Because 0 is supposed to be completely black. If you look at any display in the dark, it will show a slight difference between black and the darkest gray.

The results that I'm seeing currently in QuickPic is very much acceptable. Do you see improvement compared to when you were on GB?
 
S

sepdx

Member
Oct 23, 2010
6
2
screen dimming issue

Great thread; thank you to all the very knowledgeable and dedicated members contributing here. I've had my stock Note for three weeks now, and for me the screen issue is most noticeable when I dim it down for e-book reading in bed (night mode, no ambient light). My Captivate would maintain a black background and the text would dim to a nice low-contrast charcoal gray. When dimming the Note, however, the black background becomes light grey and is blinding in a dark room. Small issue, but it's on the verge of being a deal-breaker for me...only one week to go on my return window to figure out if this will be resolved by ICS and/or a third-party app, or if I'm better off jumping ship to another GS2 variant or the One X. I have no issues with rooting or custom ROMs, but don't want to jeopardize the return option.
 
N

nstong

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2011
218
9
I bought my phone on ebay and was curious so I used the test image. I am already on unofficial, don't know if that makes a difference
 
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  • 4
    oka1
    oka1
    From the Moderator...........

    All of you..... play nice in here, the discussion is about clipping and misc screen flaws....... if you all cannot stay on that topic or closely related then this thread gets closed.

    PeartFan40...... stop.... stop baiting ...... let it go stay on topic.....

    tenderchkn.......stop....     inciting...... no good ever comes from it....

    Now please be respectful to each other

    Thanks All ~ oka1
    View
    2
    T
    tenderchkn
    I wanted to branch out from the other thread and actually do a poll to see how many people are experiencing this problem, and how severely. In the other thread (http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1515299), several people claim that their copies are absolutely perfect and show no signs of black crush. If you indeed have a "good" screen, your feedback will be incredibly valuable. Please post pictures of your phone, if you do the test below and the blacks display correctly!

    The reason that most of us are seeing "black crush" or ugly blockiness in dark areas in videos and photos is that these artifacts are present in the source material. Blocky patterns are a result of compression, and are most noticeable at the extreme ends of the dynamic range, where there is the least amount of detail. So if these compression artifacts are present in the source material, why do we not see it on other devices? It is because most other displays are properly calibrated to gradually gradate dark tones from dark gray to black. In other words, on a properly calibrated display, the color #000000 (black, or RGB 0,0,0) is virtually in distinguishable from #010101 (RGB 1,1,1). In fact, it is hard to tell a difference until #050505 (RGB 5,5,5). Therefore, most of the clipping that occurs as a result of compression artifacts is hidden. However, with the Note, #010101 is very much distinguishable from #000000. Dark tones are too bright, and we're able to see clearly until #010101. Instead of gradually moving to black, at #000000, it drops off a cliff. This is why we see such a dramatic different between the darkest grays and blacks, and why this black crush issue is so noticeable.

    The side effect of having grays that are too bright is that when watching Blu-ray quality HD video, the dark areas look washed out, and the picture lacks "punch". High quality video that is properly encoded very rarely have pure blacks (to avoid clipping). As a result, dark scenes appear too bright on our phones.

    The method to test is with a gamma test pattern, which I have attached. Download QuickPic from Market/Play (free). Go to Settings -> Viewer, and check the box for 32-bit render. Then, download the attached .png file, and view it in full screen in QuickPic. Make sure to do this in a DARK room!

    Each box with a number has a corresponding RGB value. For example, the box with the number 1 is RGB 1,1,1, and so on. Load it on your Note and report back the smallest number that you are able to see. Also, does it gradually go to black, or does it just abruptly go to black without a smooth transition?

    Last week, I went to two AT&T stores, and tested every display model with this method. Even with the bright store lights, it was possible to see box #1 on every phone. Repeated the test on an iPad 2, Galaxy Tab 10.1, and Skyrocket. The iPad was too dark, as the entire left side of the test picture is unreadable. On the Galaxy Tab, I could see box #7 or so. The Skyrocket showed a similar problem to the Note, as it seemed to abruptly transition to black. However, it was still a bit smoother than the Note, and box #4 was the smallest I could see.

    Here's a picture of the test on my phone. The right side is the test image itself, so you can see how it is supposed to look like on your computer screen. Compare this with what you see on your phones.

    1.jpg
    View
    2
    V
    Vcolassi
    Not sure if you guys have seen this video or not on Youtube. But this is how it obviously should and shouldn't be.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a8aIGeLERg
    View
    2
    I
    iNTER5LOve
    Just download (sceen Adjuster) from play store
    and put red (3) contrast (10 - 20)

    and check picture again
    View
    2
    PeartFan40
    PeartFan40
    This "black crush" problem is a resilt of poor video/picture quality. It's not a flaw of the device. I have seen this occur on my SGS II, my Skyrocket, and my Note. I've also experienced this on my 28" $600 computer monitor, and even on my 52" Sharp Aquos Quattron LED LCD TV. It's a source issue, period. Of the resolution of a particular video is low, or of poornquality, pixelation or blockiness will occur. Its completely normal, and affects all types of displays. It's not unique to the Galaxy Note. Threads like this annoy me to no end. It's pretty simple, avoid low quality video and images and you won't see it. This isn't rocket science.

    Here is a link to a forum where certain blu-ray movies cause this.

    http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=40198

    Please, stop creating these ridiculous threads. All it does is create panic amoung Galaxy Note owners.

    Not trying to be rude, but seriously...The display and the rest of the hardware on the Note is perfectly fine. Actually, the Note has the best looking display I've seen on any mobile phone thus far.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note (SGH-i717) using XDA Premium.
    View

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