3 Button Fix is not really a "Fix"?

davidke · Sep 20, 2010

I dont think the 3 button recovery mode "fix" that samsung released for Bell Canada i9000m and that was ported to work for other models is really a "Fix".

As dicussed in other threads, the original bug is on the PCB. It's a timing issue on the motherboard. The "fix" installs a software hook in the 4th level bootloader to the 3 buttons in order to trigger the recovery mode.

If you brick your phone such that it does not get to the 4BL stage ...
OR
If your phone freezes even after the 4BL stage ...
then you are **** out of luck.

Only a phone that had the 3BR working before the fix or a phone that gets a MB changed will be able to recover from being bricked.

This fix is only slightly better than installing a software that triggers recovery or using adb to force recovery mode. Basically it only works in conditions where you would not need recovery in the first place.

bigl666 · Sep 20, 2010

thats an assumption, but where is the proof and source?

blackdeath09 · Sep 20, 2010

I don't know about you but for me the recovery menu fix works great. I rooted my phone after I used that fix with the update.zip method so unless you have proves I think is better to not scary users.

xtrememorph · Sep 20, 2010

I thought three limit was cause by the telco not Samsung? Read it from a post where the telco confirm they disable it.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

blackdeath09 · Sep 20, 2010

The idea is I don't think Samsung replaced the motherboard of the mobile phones and the prove is that Samsung Canada or something posted a method to enable recovery mode back.

davidke · Sep 20, 2010

bigl666 said:
thats an assumption, but where is the proof and source?

I did say "I think".... but added an ? to the title.

Based my opinion on these posts:
http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=8217641&postcount=390
and the serious part of this one:
http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=8156981&postcount=287

Casio1987 · Sep 20, 2010

My reply from another thread: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=8230653

That was my first hypothetis when Samsung released the fix.

That's why I asked technical details and get some after contacting Samsung technical department, to finally speak with a tech, instead of those clueless helpdesk first and secondline helpdesk coworkers. But he couldn't give me more pointers, other than the original working 3br devices do not use the spl at all.

My hypothetis seems right if the bootloader gets overwritten by other firmware who's using spl on the respective partition.

My assumption, like I said before in this thread, is that the original 3br working devices gets triggered via the pcb, which loads the pbl with the safemode, if not on a dedicated module, maybe... That way, the users of such device can always be assured they can flash every firmware. This is how it's done with other many devices too. And that's exactly why I don't buy the story of 'not'-controlled batches by another guy here on the forums in another thread. I can understand why and that's why I'm so disappointed they continue to ship the phone with Android.

If you are like me, you need to test new firmware releases in order to test your own written code in Eclipse. Plus, I want the latest releases...

That's why I suggested to get your mobo replaced now you have the change, before Samsung goes with the spl fix as a standard procedure for future bricked phones.

But, for now, we will not know, unless somebody is disassembling a working 3br and a non working 3br device and have the electronic skills to confirm this.

Casio1987 · Sep 20, 2010

blackdeath09 said:
I don't know about you but for me the recovery menu fix works great. I rooted my phone after I used that fix with the update.zip method so unless you have proves I think is better to not scary users.

There is no proof, if there was, there was probably a fix already or at least the technical details published.

xtrememorph said:
I thought three limit was cause by the telco not Samsung? Read it from a post where the telco confirm they disable it.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

No, I got my phone from a Samsung distro, not from any provider and it has 3br disabled.

blackdeath09 said:
The idea is I don't think Samsung replaced the motherboard of the mobile phones and the prove is that Samsung Canada or something posted a method to enable recovery mode back.

That could be, then if you have 3br enabled with a firmware without the integrated fix back, it's probably a new phone without replacement.

The prove that a temporary fix exist doesn't mean it's permanent, which is for the original 3br enabled devices.

blackdeath09 · Sep 20, 2010

So then someone should brick his phone after installed the fix and see if he can repair it back (as a user said in the original thread)

Casio1987 · Sep 20, 2010

blackdeath09 said:
So then someone should brick his phone after installed the fix and see if he can repair it back (as a user said in the original thread)

Under what kind of circumstances?

That doesn't prove anything, other than the fix works if the sbl isn't overwritten.
Then flash back to a firmware who does without the fix and tell me the results.

I've read in http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=8230653 that someone flashed back and the fix is gone. Now you have your proof this fix isn't permanent, like I already said a bunch of times. I believe it was firmware JM1 if I can remember correctly. It was tested one time though. Try it and please report your results back.

davidke · Sep 20, 2010

Proof will come when someone bricks a phone other than by flashing firmware and can not use the 3BR combo even though the "fix" was applied.
Prroving that the "Fix" works is just about impossible. No reports of the condition described above will constitute proof that it works.

I do have an idea for a test:
- With battery fully charged, USB unplugged and phone off,
- Initiate 3BR.
- Calculate time to reach recovery screen.

Compare "fixed" phone with originally working one.
If different assume that fix is not as good as a real working 3BR phone.

TriC_101 · Sep 20, 2010

My Buddy just had a bad flash and and bricked the phone.. and the recovery saved him so yes it does work....
he did not have the 3 buttons working before but did the update and started flashing roms.. and it saved him... its not a hardware issue.. its always been software.

so it does work.. if this fix didn't come out he would have a good door stop.

davidke · Sep 20, 2010

TriC_101 said:
My Buddy just had a bad flash and and bricked the phone.. and the recovery saved him so yes it does work....

Like I said, proof comes when someone recovers from a brick OTHER than because of a bad flash.
Because, in general, that doesnt touch the BL.

PatcheZ · Sep 20, 2010

davidke said:
Like I said, proof comes when someone recovers from a brick OTHER than because of a bad flash.
Because, in general, that doesnt touch the BL.

why does it really matter? isn't that normally the problem anywayz, bricking from a bad flash?
but then again, this appears to be one of those you can't prove anything to be true, but only to be false scenarios...

Casio1987 · Sep 20, 2010

TriC_101 said:
My Buddy just had a bad flash and and bricked the phone.. and the recovery saved him so yes it does work....
he did not have the 3 buttons working before but did the update and started flashing roms.. and it saved him... its not a hardware issue.. its always been software.

so it does work.. if this fix didn't come out he would have a good door stop.

I disagree.
Without pcb, rom and human-machine-interaction, there is no way the bootloader will load. So you are telling me it's not a hardware issue that 3br isn't working? I fully disagree. IT IS. Why? Because Android already have the recovery / download mode adressesed... Please study mobile phone architecture or at least computer architecture and how the android kernel and os works.
No one knows the exact architecture of sgs here, but one thing is for sure. 3br isn't working, because it doesn't get handled BEFORE spl... And if it is, it's disabled on purpose in bml1 and otherwise there is probably another rom, handling all 3 buttons first, before launching ipl.

Please tell your buddy to flash back to JM1 and let his phone brick and post back your results...

Casio1987 · Sep 20, 2010

I hope Richthofen and / or some other members can exclude this theory by hexcomparing bml1 from working and not working 3br devices and analyze that, so we can exclude that. If it matches, then it's probably a hardware issue. Like I told you before... Android already adressed the safemode space. So the parameters must come via the 3 buttons by pcb. You are happy now?

franklin01 · Sep 20, 2010

Casio1987 said:
I hope Richthofen and / or some other members can exclude this theory by hexcomparing bml1 from working and not working 3br devices and analyze that, so we can exclude that. If it matches, then it's probably a hardware issue. Like I told you before... Android already adressed the safemode space. So the parameters must come via the 3 buttons by pcb. You are happy now?

It seems BML1 to BML4 that triggers 3BR recovery mode are differents between countries and could be related to CSC version.

So it seems to be a software problem.

Until you dont flash BLM/SPL everything will be fine, just check before flashing.

Richthofen · Sep 20, 2010

I find it hard to believe that it would be a hardware issue.

The first retail European I9000 phones had I9000XXJF3 factory firmware version.
As far as I know all of them had a functional 3-button "wake" function for download and recovery modes.

When Samsung started using I9000XXJM1 as a factory firmware, I have seen only one phone with a functional "3-button wake". And even with that one I could not tell if it was a brand new one or a factory refurbished one.

For some odd reason the first release using the new secondary bootloader was I9000XXJM1. All of the previous versions (from I9000XXJE2 thru I9000XWJFF) have been using the same bootloader. As far as I know none of these phones ever had problems.

Also there is no indication that Samsung would have modified the hardware.
Samsung always makes bulletin about the changes in hardware and I have not seen any. Also the hardware revision has remained the same from the start.

Casio1987 · Sep 20, 2010

Richthofen said:
I find it hard to believe that it would be a hardware issue.

The first retail European I9000 phones had I9000XXJF3 factory firmware version.
As far as I know all of them had a functional 3-button "wake" function for download and recovery modes.

When Samsung started using I9000XXJM1 as a factory firmware, I have seen only one phone with a functional "3-button wake". And even with that one I could not tell if it was a brand new one or a factory refurbished one.

For some odd reason the first release using the new secondary bootloader was I9000XXJM1. All of the previous versions (from I9000XXJE2 thru I9000XWJFF) have been using the same bootloader. As far as I know none of these phones ever had problems.

Also there is no indication that Samsung would have modified the hardware.
Samsung always makes bulletin about the changes in hardware and I have not seen any. Also the hardware revision has remained the same from the start.

Very odd indeed, because how is it possible that some have working 3br and others not with the same firmware jm1, coming from the same csc, coming from the same batch? Maybe the 8gb differs from the 16gb (I don't think so). Maybe asked too much, but it would be great if people can start publishing all their bml's, with the exception of the containing imei.

Because the safemode must be somewhere and it isn't in bml4.
Maybe there is a special ic for it, but it's locked for the 3br disabled phones and it's overridden by the sbl.

Are you sure there isn't a special module with the safemode in it?
That would clarify why the hw still preserves the same revision.

TriC_101 · Sep 20, 2010

Casio1987 said:
I disagree.
Without pcb, rom and human-machine-interaction, there is no way the bootloader will load. So you are telling me it's not a hardware issue that 3br isn't working? I fully disagree. IT IS. Why? Because Android already have the recovery / download mode adressesed... Please study mobile phone architecture or at least computer architecture and how the android kernel and os works.
No one knows the exact architecture of sgs here, but one thing is for sure. 3br isn't working, because it doesn't get handled BEFORE spl... And if it is, it's disabled on purpose in bml1 and otherwise there is probably another rom, handling all 3 buttons first, before launching ipl.

Please tell your buddy to flash back to JM1 and let his phone brick and post back your results...

I do know how phone architecture works and computer architecture as well....... in the end its very simple... it works its saved lots of people from having a bricked phone.. and the recovery mode is different between countries. besides you should not be flashing the SPL/BLM in the 1st place. and like you said your self you don't know how the exact architecture works on the SGS so how can you say its not a software issue. if you fully don't understand it.

3 Button Fix is not really a "Fix"?

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