GPS fix

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ashishwebmail

Member
Jan 27, 2017
18
5
Singaiya said:
If your phone is still under warranty (I think it's one year), try sending it back to Motorola through their repair process. I was having the exact same gps problem with the g4 play, and didn't want to try a zillion technical things, so I returned it (6 months old). Was worried the replacement would have the same problem but it doesn't! The replacement g4 play has perfect gps tracking!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Could you please post a screenshot of GPS Test App (made by Chartcross Limited) of your mobile, taken in any open area like on the roof. Actually I have used the external wire technique to enhance GPS signal in my mobile since March. Since then the mobile has a significant change in the signal that it boosted from 10 - 20 SNR to 40 - 46 SNR. Currently there is no any problem of GPS in my device. The only problem is that, I cannot open my back cover in any circumstance as this will disturb the configuration.

So please provide us the screenshot soon as I have only 40 days left of expiration of warranty.
And Thanks for the info that you got a fix from the service center. Waiting for your reply!!!
 
S

Singaiya

New member
Oct 8, 2017
2
1
Here is the screenshot. I don't know how to interpret the numbers in this app, but at least the gps is working. :good:
m7fZm7pDOXGz3Zwp1
 
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A

ashishwebmail

Member
Jan 27, 2017
18
5
Singaiya said:
Here is the screenshot. I don't know how to interpret the numbers in this app, but at least the gps is working. :good:
m7fZm7pDOXGz3Zwp1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Sorry, but no, the problem of GPS in your device is not fixed yet. And many thanks for providing us the screenshot as now I would not waste my time giving my mobile to the service center. Also about the image, there is nothing so technical in it. The height of the bars in the image shows how much GPS signal your mobile is getting at a particular time from a satellite of which you can see the ID just below the bar. So you can simply guess about your GPS that the more the numbers of green bars you can see in this app, the more perfect your GPS is working. I am providing here my screenshot of the same app so that you can compare and see what is the capacity of the signal receptor of the device and what this mobile gave us in normal cases. The third one is your screenshot.
 

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A

ashishwebmail

Member
Jan 27, 2017
18
5
Yuger said:
ashishwebmail said:
You are using 5 cm long wire. Is it critical to get the signal improved? Have you tried different lenghts?
Have you got the screenshots made outdoors or indoor? How consistent is this resolution?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I have not done so much experiments so as to say anything about length of the wire. However I have concluded something which I can share :
1) Requires a lot of time. Beyond you can think of.
2) Greed is not good especially if you are short tempered and lack patience.
3) Always check durability of the configuration. It may be working best on 1st day but worst on 3rd day. So check durability by firmly pressing the part of the cover covering the wire or by a little shaking of the device.
4) Make sure you are not going to open the back cover in future (for purposes like removal/replacement of sim card or memory card ) so as not to disturb the configuration. But if it's urgent, get prepared for another wastage of time.
5) Check signal using GPS Test App (made by Chartcross Limited - Recommended ) in an open area like rooftop and away from tall buildings as it may give indirect signals to your mobile. Signal from all GPS satellites must be green in color and SNR should be above 35. Maximum SNR could be 43 - 45.

The screenshots in my previous post were taken on the roof. Here I am providing some other pics.
Pic1 : The top view of the mobile without cover.
Pic2 : The screenshot taken in my room just below the roof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
 

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M

metalshreds

Member
Jan 16, 2014
17
9
spiked_mistborn said:
Same problem here.
I ended up having to put a little solder on the spring contacts and then filing to make it flat. It increased the contact area with the antenna pads and so far seems to be working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Thanks for the tip, do you think with time the solder will oxidize and need to be replaced? Also how come you put the solder on the spring contacts and not the pads? I was going to attempt to do this in the near future. My GPS is quite bad, never locks :/
 
Y

Yuger

Member
Oct 14, 2017
6
1
metalshreds said:
Thanks for the tip, do you think with time the solder will oxidize and need to be replaced? Also how come you put the solder on the spring contacts and not the pads? I was going to attempt to do this in the near future. My GPS is quite bad, never locks :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you think about a couple of similar options?
First one - instead of adding solder which require heating contacts just to add a small square of copper foil on the pad or contact. This will increase the force on the spring contact without the need to bend it or solder.
Second one - place a piece of rubber like silicone rubber under the spring contact. This will rise it which again will increase contact force.
I haven't looked at the contacts yet myself so I don't know if these options are feasible.
 
F

fbugnon

Member
Jun 3, 2012
37
9
My GPS experience with Moto G4 Play

I have a Moto G4 Play DTV (Brazilian) and I recently installed Lineage 14.1 (7.1.2) and I was having, as many of you, problems getting a GPS Fix. Was impossible to use it with Waze of Google Maps, for instance.

After having read this thread, I decide to do a little test, so I installed GPS Test by Chartcross and try it on an open air location. At first, few satellites and NO FIX. So I remove the cover (without turning off the phone) and pressed hard with my fingers on the GPS antenna spot. Few seconds later, I had 3D Fix and accuracy between 3/5 meters while pressing the antenna. After removing my fingers, accuracy drop to 8 meters, but I still had 3D Fix and I was able to drive with the help of Waze/Maps.

Attached are screen-prints of the GPS Test.

I guess this didn't solve the problem, but it seems like an easy way to make the GPS usable instantly.
 
M

metalshreds

Member
Jan 16, 2014
17
9
Yuger said:
What do you think about a couple of similar options?
First one - instead of adding solder which require heating contacts just to add a small square of copper foil on the pad or contact. This will increase the force on the spring contact without the need to bend it or solder.
Second one - place a piece of rubber like silicone rubber under the spring contact. This will rise it which again will increase contact force.
I haven't looked at the contacts yet myself so I don't know if these options are feasible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

The springs are really tiny, its hard to stick anything under them, I also worry about bending them and breaking them. What I ended up doing is attaching a couple copper pads with electrical tape an a tape spacer so they don't touch. You can see the before/after images, it did make a difference :) hopefully it will last.

Any idea what would happen if the antenna shorted?
 

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Y

Yuger

Member
Oct 14, 2017
6
1
metalshreds said:
The springs are really tiny, its hard to stick anything under them, I also worry about bending them and breaking them. What I ended up doing is attaching a couple copper pads with electrical tape an a tape spacer so they don't touch. You can see the before/after images, it did make a difference :) hopefully it will last.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

That is, probably, the easiest solution to accomplish. How thick are your copper pads?
 
spiked_mistborn

spiked_mistborn

Senior Member
Nov 28, 2012
284
130
metalshreds said:
Thanks for the tip, do you think with time the solder will oxidize and need to be replaced? Also how come you put the solder on the spring contacts and not the pads? I was going to attempt to do this in the near future. My GPS is quite bad, never locks :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I'm not worried about the solder oxidizing. What I did was actually make a very small circular loop from some copper wire, smaller than the contact pad, and soldered that to the top of the spring contact. It added too much vertical height though, so I filed it down a little. It works a little better, but not great. Maybe doing something to the pads will be a better option.
 
M

metalshreds

Member
Jan 16, 2014
17
9
spiked_mistborn said:
I'm not worried about the solder oxidizing. What I did was actually make a very small circular loop from some copper wire, smaller than the contact pad, and soldered that to the top of the spring contact. It added too much vertical height though, so I filed it down a little. It works a little better, but not great. Maybe doing something to the pads will be a better option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

ahh ok, yea those contacts are really tiny! I put a couple copper pads and it worked but they aren't really stable and I'm worried about shorting the gps antenna. I think im going to order copper tape and put a couple layers of it over the pads.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6mm-30M-Co...849365?hash=item33d8fde295:g:moUAAOSwJclZpMTp
 
HlebK

HlebK

Member
Jun 6, 2015
25
13
36
Kyiv
I've flipped antenna contacts and put two layers of duble-ended scotch tape. After this SNR is more realible then earlier due to more pressure, but still no connection with Glonnass & Beidou.
Someone tell in Nougat Soak there is no trouble with GPS, so maybe any possibility to extract modem and flash it?
 
R

rodrigian

Senior Member
Jan 19, 2012
64
9
Buenos Aires
Okay, so I tried scratching the copper pads in the back case. It worked for a day or two then started failing (i get a lock only when i have Good cell reception, navigation does not work) i was so angry that i punched the phone in the back and it started working again... Then obviusly failed again. By working i mean that navigation works. Right now I can get a lock in under 10 seconds, but navigstion Jeeps falling. To anyone that modified the contact pads, have you been able to use Navigation after they mod? Which mod worked better? (I'm not planning on using the cable-pressed-against-case mod) Btw i'm using nougat stock, GLONASS isnt working here either, it's a nougat thing not a lineageos issue exclusively
 
HlebK

HlebK

Member
Jun 6, 2015
25
13
36
Kyiv
rodrigian said:
Okay, so I tried scratching the copper pads in the back case. It worked for a day or two then started failing (i get a lock only when i have Good cell reception, navigation does not work) i was so angry that i punched the phone in the back and it started working again... Then obviusly failed again. By working i mean that navigation works. Right now I can get a lock in under 10 seconds, but navigstion Jeeps falling. To anyone that modified the contact pads, have you been able to use Navigation after they mod? Which mod worked better? (I'm not planning on using the cable-pressed-against-case mod) Btw i'm using nougat stock, GLONASS isnt working here either, it's a nougat thing not a lineageos issue exclusively
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, since 27dec GLONASS is working for computation location on official LOS builds, as well as it's working on official reteu roms
 
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N

n76

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2014
562
453
California
HlebK said:
Hi, since 27dec GLONASS is working for computation location on official LOS builds, as well as it's working on official reteu roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, recent Lineage releases support GLONASS and it really helps on my phone.

I added a dab of electrical solder on the GPS antenna contacts. I guess it helped some, but the signal strength shown by test apps is still lower than I'd like and the reported position uncertainty is higher than I think it should be.
 
HlebK

HlebK

Member
Jun 6, 2015
25
13
36
Kyiv
n76 said:
Yes, recent Lineage releases support GLONASS and it really helps on my phone.

I added a dab of electrical solder on the GPS antenna contacts. I guess it helped some, but the signal strength shown by test apps is still lower than I'd like and the reported position uncertainty is higher than I think it should be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Frankly, I don't see the difference for accuracy with GLONASS or without it.
Also I've deleted gps.conf and it seems works slightly better than before, but anyway jitter is so annoying like bull****
 
DB126

DB126

Senior Member
Oct 15, 2013
15,362
10,174
HlebK said:
Frankly, I don't see the difference for accuracy with GLONASS or without it.
Also I've deleted gps.conf and it seems works slightly better than before, but anyway jitter is so annoying like bull****
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a G4P (XT1607) and a pair of E4's (XT1767, Xt1768). One thing I can confidently state is the GPS hardware sucks on the G4P. No custom ROM, kernel or antenna contact tweak will fix it. Haven't tried the external antenna hack; gave up a purchased a $40 USD XT1767 at Walmart for navigation. GLONASS ain't gonna fix the G4P GPS screw-up. Kinda sad as the XT1607 is solid otherwise.
 
S

Shadeclan

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2017
109
28
Bennington, VT
Moto G 5G
Cleaning the Contacts

I was having issues with all of my radio reception - GPS and Bluetooth were both dropping out periodically and WiFi and phone reception was poor. I took the phone apart and gently rubbed all the contact springs and contact pads with a small piece of ScotchBrite pad. I also gently bent up all the contact springs to make firmer contact with the pads. Everything is working much better now and all signal strength has been greatly improved - I'm getting 4 bars now in places that I only got one or two, my Bluetooth devices have stopped dropping connections and my GPS locks on much, much faster than before.

I think that a better choice than scratching the contacts or using a ScotchBrite pad would have been a to use a cotton swab dampened with a little Tarn-X to remove any corrosion on the connectors, followed by a few cotton swabs dampened with distilled water as a rinse (I had none on hand or else I would have used it). The real fix, I think, would be to somehow widen the contact points on the springs and increase the tension. This might be done by carefully soldering a little copper wire to the top of the spring or, if you don't have the hands of a surgeon, screwing some very small coil springs around the contacts themselves and, if necessary, carefully securing them in place with solder or electrically conductive adhesive.

I will probably disassemble the phone again and re-clean the contacts, once I've gotten a bottle of Tarn-X. Who knows? Maybe I won't have to worry about it after that.

I think I will eventually make the changes to GPS.conf recommended in this thread. I recommend caution, in doing that, however. I had several issues when attempting to edit the file - editing it directly on my rooted phone caused the file to go blank and I was unable to restore it. Also, in doing so, my WiFi went wonky and I was forced to do a restore from a recent backup. I recommend editing it from ADB while the phone is in Recovery or FastBoot mode - and make sure you make and keep a copy of the original file! ;)
 
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    spiked_mistborn
    spiked_mistborn
    The previous fix that I tried, tightening the screws by the GPS antenna, helped a little but the fix didn't last. Since I already voided my warranty when I unlocked the bootloader, I decided to take the back off the phone to get a better look at what's going on. This issue is definitely a hardware/manufacturing defect, so if your phone is still under warranty you should have it fixed by Motorola. I am not recommending anybody try this, but if you do try it you do so at your own risk! I am not responsible for anything that might happen.

    First off, there is a hidden screw under this cover (looks like contact points for a Qi wireless charger, you can see an outline on the back cover)
    IMG_20170408_010950_small.jpg

    After removing all of the screws and taking the back off, you can see that Moto is using spring contacts for the GPS antenna. Using a very small blade I LIGHTLY scratched the contact points on the cover seen on the left, and with a very small flat-blade screwdriver I bent the spring contacts slightly upward.
    IMG_20170408_010519.jpg

    When I reassembled the phone and went outside I got a GPS lock at 3 meter accuracy within about 2 seconds!
    Screenshot_20170408-011820.png

    Hopefully this fix lasts, since this GPS issue is my only real complaint with this phone.
    View
    6
    Z
    zerogun
    nick_white said:
    After weeks of testing, I finally got to a point where the GPS:
    - consistently connects outdoors within 5 seconds
    - connects to >10 satellites on average outdoors (before, the average was like 5-6)
    - has an accuracy of 3-4 meters (before, I frequently got like 30-50)
    - can even connect indoors if next to a window (before, it was practically impossible no matter how much Ieft it)

    I was so disapointed of the G4 Play because of the lack of compass + bad GPS, that I bought a Redmi 3S to replace it. However, after the GPS fixes, I returned it and remained with the G4 Play (waaay better software and ergonomics).
    The phone now works even better than my previous phones. Too bad for the lack of compass, although now that the accuracy is high, the direction is determined if I make a couple of footsteps, which makes it somewhat equivalent.

    So these are the fixes that made an enormous difference (altogether):

    EDITED REMOVED TEXT.
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    spiked_mistborn said:
    The previous fix that I tried, tightening the screws by the GPS antenna, helped a little but the fix didn't last. Since I already voided my warranty when I unlocked the bootloader, I decided to take the back off the phone to get a better look at what's going on. This issue is definitely a hardware/manufacturing defect, so if your phone is still under warranty you should have it fixed by Motorola. I am not recommending anybody try this, but if you do try it you do so at your own risk! I am not responsible for anything that might happen.

    EDITED REMOVED TEXT.
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    Using both nick_white and spiked_mistborn's solutions, I was able to get rock solid GPS.
    @nick_white: I'm old hat at editing .conf files. So you are absolutely correct in that # comments out everything. Whoever wrote the gps.conf files for the Moto G4 Play was on crack. They commented out almost everything, did not specify default NTP server or pool, and had mispellings like 5UPL. I edited mine almost exactly like yours, but I used north-america.pool.ntp.org (obviously, because that's where I am), and I used SUPL_Host=supl.google.com and port 7256. Anyways, the edited gps.conf allows me to get a fix sooner, since the supl settings allows AGPS to locate me via cell towers much faster and then hand that info to external gps handlers. However, GPS still drops frequently and fluctuations are wild. It would fluctuate between 4-8 towers constantly and error goes from 3M to 25M constantly. Usable for driving, maybe, but not for running or biking. Which is the only thing I use the moto G for.
    @spiked_mistborn: THIS. This is the only thing that stabilized my gps. Now it's rock solid. It gets between 8-10 satellites easily and locks within 10 seconds. My Nexus 6P gets 12-14 and locks in 2 seconds but it's using the glonass satellites and it costs 6 times more. It's stupid that it was a simple hardware issue. I used to fix phones in my spare time so I can take apart any phone (including iPhones). But the G4 Play is ludicrously easy to take apart. The only thing that is dicey is the part where you pull up on the contacts on the motherboard that connect to the GPS radio. The contacts are so tiny that you could break them off. So anyone doing this fix, just be careful and don't pull up too much. Also, I sanded the contact patches on the antennae instead of just scraping with a screwdriver. Moto could have avoided this issue if they went with domed solid contacts instead of spring contacts.

    BTW, I assume that you are an avid Brandon Sanderson fan, like I am :)
    @ashishwebmail: For anyone that is curious, I did use the wire solution too. However, I splayed the wire and placed it between the GPS contact points and the GPS antennae. This works really really well. However, it's ugly as hell. And then you better pray that that wire never touches anything charged... I would recommend using nick_white and spiked_mistborn's solution before attempting the wire method.
    View
    4
    N
    nick_white
    SUCCESS

    After weeks of testing, I finally got to a point where the GPS:
    - consistently connects outdoors within 5 seconds
    - connects to >10 satellites on average outdoors (before, the average was like 5-6)
    - has an accuracy of 3-4 meters (before, I frequently got like 30-50)
    - can even connect indoors if next to a window (before, it was practically impossible no matter how much Ieft it)

    I was so disapointed of the G4 Play because of the lack of compass + bad GPS, that I bought a Redmi 3S to replace it. However, after the GPS fixes, I returned it and remained with the G4 Play (waaay better software and ergonomics).
    The phone now works even better than my previous phones. Too bad for the lack of compass, although now that the accuracy is high, the direction is determined if I make a couple of footsteps, which makes it somewhat equivalent.

    So these are the fixes that made an enormous difference (altogether):

    1. Remove the back cover. Locate the plastic that says Harpia GPS. While firmly pressing it (as much as you can without feeling like you are going to break it), tighten the two screws next to it. This was the thing that made a huge difference. So shame on Motorola / Lenovo for not having the screws tight :D.

    2. Modify gps.conf to:
    Code: 
    ERR_ESTIMATE=0
DEBUG_LEVEL = 0
CAPABILITIES=0x37

NTP_SERVER=europe.pool.ntp.org
XTRA_SERVER_1=http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_2=http://xtra2.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_3=http://xtra3.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
PHONE_TYPE=UMTS
SUPL_HOST=supl.nokia.com
SUPL_PORT=7275
DEFAULT_AGPS_ENABLE=TRUE
DEFAULT_USER_PLANE=TRUE
DEFAULT_SSL_ENABLE=FALSE
INTERMEDIATE_POS=1
ACCURACY_THRES=5000
    The first 3 lines are the uncommented ones from the original file.
    Replace europe with your appropriate region. I googled that property and found plenty of examples.
    Intermediate + accuracy threshold made it possible to have a rough location within ~1 kilometer when you have very bad signal, although by judging the reported position, it seems better than that. That accuracy is not really appropriate for driving, but makes a huge difference when you want to tell someone of the town area you're in, or when you're lost in the woods :).
    You need to reboot for the modifications to be effective.

    3. Install GPS Status & Toolbox. Go to AGPS, reset once, then download. Afterwards, it's enough if you redownload (no need for reset) once every few days.
    This seems to help connect to the first satellites, so it greatly reduces the fix time.

    So there you have it, this made my G4 Play a reliable companion.
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    3
    spiked_mistborn
    spiked_mistborn
    n76 said:
    I think silver oxidizes faster that nickel, so maybe it is a worse choice due to shorter life. What guided you decision to use nickel rather than some other conductive ink?
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    The silver one was about twice the cost, and more than I was willing to spend not knowing if it would work or not. The nickel one looked like it would work well enough.

    It's been several days so far and it's still ok, so I'll keep you all updated after more time goes by.
    View
    3
    A
    ashishwebmail
    Past few days, seen many of you moving ahead to fix the hardware , the problem which I had pinpointed... But you know that was the actual problem without any doubt. 2 months have gone since I had fixed this problem. What I did two months before -- I bought an external back cover to fix the protruded wire (around 5-6 cm) at some position with the help of it.(You can see my previous reply to know how to put the wire in place of the removed screw ) A headphone can be used to emphasize the signal if you want more. Just after putting the external (should be flexible and transparent) back cover, open an application that shows gps signal to you. (In my case, I used GPS Test) Use a needle to move the wire that are stuck inside the back cover. (Just move the start of the protruding wire for best result) Do this until you get maximum signal from most of the satellites (and not one or two) . It may take an hour or two or three or may be more, and you may get frustrated but I must say it will be worth doing. After all it will diminish daily frustration of not getting proper fix. So give it a try. From two months I am getting 3-5 m accuracy inside my house which is incredible.
    And one more thing, one member warned us not doing this as it will mutilate the gps device. What if I say, due to so much frustration of not getting proper fix, I had made my mind one day to throw the mobile on the garbage . I think it would have made more damage to it. I am waiting for the day when you will be able to find a software side solution to this problem. But till then this is one of the great solution.
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