[APP][2.2+] Telegram, the secure chat client.

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domenukk

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2010
823
31
I've been using this app for a while now and trying to get in touch with the devs regarding some basic privacy concerns. Essentially - all our data is stored on their servers (unless in the case of "Secret Chats" - which is not the default / passive option). So what happens if you OR the person you're chatting to gets a new number, loses their existing phone, or just deletes Telegram (as you would WhatsApp)? It seems all our data, chatlogs and files (pictures, videos, media, etc) stays on Telegram's servers indefinitely.

Given that this app is so focused on privacy and security, this seems to be a questionmark.

It's exactly the same WhatsApp. Just that whatsapp has no open API and no secure Chats.
 

xyrer

Senior Member
Mar 15, 2012
59
5
For an app that presents itself as "secure" this is not very secure, and even annoying, I use g+ and like many other users, I have circles with people I don't personally know or want to get in direct contact with, still, if one of those people installs telegram, we both appear as each other's contact and our numbers are exposed.
 

toxic-hero

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2009
527
167
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James Randi

Member
Feb 2, 2014
34
6
Netherlands
at the moment i recommend threema. in the very near future (with v2 and ios version) definitely textsecure.

more:
http://missingm.co/2014/02/fighting-dishfire-the-state-of-mobile-cross-platform-encrypted-messaging/

I know Threema and its close to perfect for privacy I guess, but without people in your contact list having it, it is useless. And it is hard to convince people to download an app they have to pay for.

"Why should I pay if whatsapp is free? I don't have anything to hide..."
Stuff like that is why I find Telegram useful... it is free, it looks good, people know how it works from whatsapp, and you can get it for Android, iOS, and Windows Phone. I was able to convince some people to download and use it, at least for contacting me.

But yeah, the whole thing starts to smell a bit... odd. Especially the Moxie Marlinspike arguments make me wonder if in the end Telegram is even worse than the usual suspects. :(
 

throwme

New member
Feb 16, 2014
2
0
It's exactly the same WhatsApp. Just that whatsapp has no open API and no secure Chats.

?

In this regard it's actually the opposite of WhatsApp - WhatsApp has no central server for our messages or media (probably for our phone numbers, though). All data is stored locally. Telegram stores all our data centrally by default.
 

Ba7rani123

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2012
949
255
Many people are ranting that its the same as whatsapp so whats the use ? or Its not really secure because it uses your phone number

To know if an app is secure or not we have to look at 4 things:
  1. Where is the company based ?
  2. Who made it ?
  3. Are the protocols secure ?
  4. Privacy Policy
  1. It is as Russian company with servers in British Ivory Islands(which keeps it away from the russian gov and the NSA)
  2. It was founded by the brothers Nikolai and Pavel Durov who are the founders of VK and are known to support wikileaks and other "pro-privacy" organisations
  3. It uses their own protocol "MTProto". The company said it would give 200,000 bitcoins to anyone who can find a bug in their protocol. 3 Russion analysts found a few issues and they were given 100,000 and the issues were fixed as soon as possible. Other companies like whatsapp dont care because for many years it has been sending our texts without any encryption and now it uses a very weak type of encryption which can be easily broken by the NSA.
  4. In their Privacy Policy they strictly show that they will NOT share any data with third parties.



But... Why is it better than Whats app ?

  • All Chats are encrypted. It uses its own encryption(MTProto) which was made to have a balance between speed and security.
- In normal chats it uses Client/Server and Server/Client encryption(which is considered secure based on many security experts who have analyzed the app), here your chats can be accessed on other devices(by signing in ofcourse) through the cloud

- In "Secret Chats" the encryption is Client/Client meaning even the builders of this app cannot see your conversations. Here you cannot access them using the could. That's why secret chat isn't used as default
  • It is Open-source
  • It allows you to send files up to 1GB in size
  • Allows you to send documents, zip or rar files
  • It has a cloud feature meaning I can access my chats from my computer and other devices, some may see this as insecure.

Cons :

  • It uses phone numbers(actually its not a big issue since your phone number is already all over the net !!)
  • Its exactly like whats app ? well its more of a Pro than a con because anyone can easily change to this with the above advantages

Conclusion :

Nothing is 100% secure but it is definitely more secure than any other app here. Also, it will remain free according to their FAQ because their goal is PRIVACY. Also, their may be an option to remove the "Last seen" in the future. Their FAQ answers many questions if you have any head over their.

FAQ:
https://telegram.org/faq

Source:
Arabic: https://cyberkov.com/?p=1354

you can use Google translate to read it :D
 
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toxic-hero

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2009
527
167
hовосиби́рск
I know Threema and its close to perfect for privacy I guess, but without people in your contact list having it, it is useless. And it is hard to convince people to download an app they have to pay for.

"Why should I pay if whatsapp is free? I don't have anything to hide..."
Stuff like that is why I find Telegram useful... it is free, it looks good, people know how it works from whatsapp, and you can get it for Android, iOS, and Windows Phone. I was able to convince some people to download and use it, at least for contacting me.

But yeah, the whole thing starts to smell a bit... odd. Especially the Moxie Marlinspike arguments make me wonder if in the end Telegram is even worse than the usual suspects. :(

you're right, most people would never pay for an app if they could get another one free. and commercial free apps are not interested in making secure apps because they have to make money end if you're not paying for their apps, somebody else have to, so they are selling the data you kindly share with them to third parties (advertisers) and that makes you their product, not their customer.

the problem with secure open source apps is that they are not making any real money so they don't have whole teams of developers that get paid to make and improve the code daily. so their developement is slow and they sometimes really look awful.

WhatsApp is the a typical example of the first and most apps here are examples of the second. Telegram seems trying to be somewhere in the middle, but i don't know if you can seat on two chairs at the same time...

anyway, i'm looking forward to the new version of textsecure with a state of the art privacy/security, a great design and an IOS counterpart.

Nothing is 100% secure but it is definitely more secure than any other app here.

this claim is provenly wrong!


more on telegram:
 
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Ba7rani123

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2012
949
255
this claim is provenly wrong!


more on telegram:

Thanks for the info !!

I knew someone would reply :D

Edit : I found this interesting article.
http://paulmillr.com/posts/the-story-of-telegram/

I actually do agree with the fact that "never make your own encryption" unless you are an expert but to be 'fair' no one has broken it yet. So instead of all the people ranting, I suggest they should try to break it.

If they succeed, I am sure the developers would fix it and if it proves to be totally crap they would change it... Because that is their goal in the end.
 
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sensati13

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2011
62
12
Northern Cali
For privacy advocates looking for alternatives

For those of you who value privacy and are interested in taking steps to help ensure your digital privacy, here is a list of existing alternatives - all open source, all standards based.

https://prism-break.org



DISCLAIMER: normally i wouldn't "troll" a thread, but this thread seems to be attracting people who care about privacy and are looking for viable alternatives to the questionable cloud based security solutions out there. Also, the people who made this app shouldn't mind if they are who they say they are. =)


s13
 
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toxic-hero

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2009
527
167
hовосиби́рск
I found this interesting article.
http://paulmillr.com/posts/the-story-of-telegram/

I actually do agree with the fact that "never make your own encryption" unless you are an expert but to be 'fair' no one has broken it yet. So instead of all the people ranting, I suggest they should try to break it.

If they succeed, I am sure the developers would fix it and if it proves to be totally crap they would change it... Because that is their goal in the end.

the post you've found is beautifully written! as a cryptography noob i'd belive it without doubt...

...but...
(there's always a "but") ;)


out of curiosity i follow many software privacy/security oriented debates and therefore i know that moxie marlinspike is a renowned name in modern cryptography while pavel durov is not a cryptography name at all. you don't have to trust me, as i am nobody, but you can search the web and you can find many interesting readings. for the same reason i know that among the “experts” mantioned in the blog post there are quite a number of experts without quotes. and they're all critical about telegram.

also, here's a post about cracking contests written by a security guru bruce schneier:

https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-9812.html#1

also from the same author:

https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-9902.html#snakeoil


after all i've read your "no one has broken it yet: stop ranting, brake it" suggestion don't count in this very case.
 
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pjilka

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2013
91
9
London
Now is your chance to capture the market while Facebook turn WhatsApp to **** by integrating it to Facebook or something
 

sabret00the

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2011
2,339
538
London
s00techified.wordpress.com
Seems a little sluggish (CyanogenMod 11/4.4.2 Nightlies) but overall it provides the same functionality as WhatsApp. I'd like to see this app really push the boundaries. A drawer for open chats would be good for easily switching between chats and also use of the Android emoji would be nice as opposed to what is for all intents and purposes the WhatsApp & iPhone emoji.
 

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    t_logo.png


    Taking back our right to privacy

    https://telegram.org/
    Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.telegram.messenger
    iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/en/app/telegram-messenger/id686449807?mt=8
    Windows Phone: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/telegram-messenger/9wzdncrdzhs0

    Updates:

    • v. 3.2.4
      Bug fixes
    • v. 3.2.3
      - Android 6.0 support
      - Now on Tap
      - Direct Share
      - Fingerprint support for Passcodes (Android 6.0 only)
    • v. 3.2.0
      - Introducing Channels – a great new way to broadcast your messages to unlimited audiences (replaces old Broadcasts).
      Read more: https://telegram.org/blog/channels

    Telegram is a messaging app with a focus on speed and security. It’s super-fast, simple, secure and free.
    Telegram seamlessly syncs across all of your devices and can be used on desktops, tablets and phones alike. You can send an unlimited amount of messages, photos, videos and files of any type (.doc, .zip, .pdf, etc.). Telegram groups have up to 200 people and you can send broadcasts to up to 100 contacts at a time. Be sure to check our website for a list of Telegram apps for all platforms.

    We built Telegram to make messaging speedy and safe again, without the usual caveats.

    Why Switch to Telegram?

    FAST: Telegram is the fastest messaging app on the market because it uses a distributed infrastructure with data centers positioned around the globe to connect users to the closest possible server.

    SECURE: We made it our mission to provide the best security among mass messengers. Telegram heavily encrypts all your data with time-tested algorithms.

    CLOUD STORAGE: Telegram seamlessly syncs across all your devices, so you can always securely access your data. Your message history is stored for free in the Telegram cloud. Never lose your data again!

    GROUP CHAT & SHARING: With Telegram, you can form large group chats of up to 200 members, send broadcasts to up to 100 contacts at a time, quickly share large videos, documents (.doc, .ppt, .zip, etc.), and send an unlimited amount of photos to your friends.

    RELIABLE: Built to deliver your messages in the minimum bytes possible, Telegram is the most reliable messaging system ever made. It works even on the weakest mobile connections.

    100% FREE & NO ADS: Telegram is free and will always be free. We are not going to sell ads or introduce subscription fees.

    PRIVACY: We take your privacy seriously and will never give third parties access to your data.

    For those interested in maximum privacy, Telegram offers Secret Chats. Secret Chat messages can be programmed to self-destruct automatically from both participating devices. This way you can send all types of disappearing content — messages, photos, videos and even files. Secret Chats use end-to-end encryption to ensure that a message can only be read by its intended recipient.

    SUPPORT: For real-time support, please go to Settings in Telegram and select “Ask a Question” to send a message directly to our support volunteers. You can also email us at support@telegram.org.

    This application is one of the best encrypted chat applications out right now. Secret messaging and auto self destruct are amazing features.
    If you don't like Facebook knowing everything about you through Whatsapp this is the thing to switch to. It feels super slick and fast. It has better options then any other messaging app has at the moment and it's growing bigger and bigger. Hope the community can give the attention this app deserves and makes it the new messaging app on Android/iOS/WP and PC.


    THIS APP IS NOT MINE. I just want to give it attention since more people should use this amazing application.

    Really good explanation from: Ba7rani123

    Many people are ranting that its the same as whatsapp so whats the use ? or Its not really secure because it uses your phone number

    To know if an app is secure or not we have to look at 4 things:
    1. Where is the company based ?
    2. Who made it ?
    3. Are the protocols secure ?
    4. Privacy Policy
    1. It is as Russian company with servers in British Ivory Islands(which keeps it away from the russian gov and the NSA)
    2. It was founded by the brothers Nikolai and Pavel Durov who are the founders of VK and are known to support wikileaks and other "pro-privacy" organisations
    3. It uses their own protocol "MTProto". The company said it would give 200,000 bitcoins to anyone who can find a bug in their protocol. 3 Russion analysts found a few issues and they were given 100,000 and the issues were fixed as soon as possible. Other companies like whatsapp dont care because for many years it has been sending our texts without any encryption and now it uses a very weak type of encryption which can be easily broken by the NSA.
    4. In their Privacy Policy they strictly show that they will NOT share any data with third parties.



    But... Why is it better than Whats app ?

    • All Chats are encrypted. It uses its own encryption(MTProto) which was made to have a balance between speed and security.
    - In normal chats it uses Client/Server and Server/Client encryption(which is considered secure based on many security experts who have analyzed the app), here your chats can be accessed on other devices(by signing in ofcourse) through the cloud

    - In "Secret Chats" the encryption is Client/Client meaning even the builders of this app cannot see your conversations. Here you cannot access them using the could. That's why secret chat isn't used as default
    • It is Open-source
    • It allows you to send files up to 1GB in size
    • Allows you to send documents, zip or rar files
    • It has a cloud feature meaning I can access my chats from my computer and other devices, some may see this as insecure.

    Cons :

    • It uses phone numbers(actually its not a big issue since your phone number is already all over the net !!)
    • Its exactly like whats app ? well its more of a Pro than a con because anyone can easily change to this with the above advantages

    Conclusion :

    Nothing is 100% secure but it is definitely more secure than any other app here. Also, it will remain free according to their FAQ because their goal is PRIVACY. Also, their may be an option to remove the "Last seen" in the future. Their FAQ answers many questions if you have any head over their.

    FAQ:
    https://telegram.org/faq

    Source:
    Arabic: https://cyberkov.com/?p=1354

    you can use Google translate to read it :D
    8
    yea but I still don't trust app like this one. It's sad because I very wanted to use it instead of fb messager (which consumes lots of ram in my device). And "Fast for facebook" is not good for me.

    If you're using Facebook Messenger privacy shouldn't be such a big concern for you, lol.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    3
    Threema is really good but its a commercial product...

    Open source is better ;)

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 4

    Telegram is not secure. I like it and use it but you should not think it is the perfect answer to safety concerns. If people change from whatsapp to telegram, that's good. If people change from whatsapp to Threema, that's perfect!
    3
    I went in the phone's general sync settings and there it was telegram's contact sync option. I've ticked it and forced a manual sync. Thanks. Not very intuitive at all. At least they should link you to the general settings...
    However, the contact still doesn't show up in telegram. :confused:

    If the contact still doesnt show, go to telegram and in settings below you ll find log out. Log out then log back in

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
    3
    Nice app but I can't figure out for the life of me how to update the contact list. I know that a contact of my general (not telegram) phonebook has recently installed telegram, but he doesn't show up in telegram's contacts. How to force telegram to rescan my phonebook to see if anyone has installed telegram?
    Thanks.

    Did you enable it from settings >,sync

    Settings > telegram > sync now

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app