Windows Mobile 7 for HD2, it will happen

When asked to comment on the sayings of a HTC developer who said that WM7 will be available for the HD2 on Twitter, HTC responded "No, disregard that". Should have said "when and if" instead of "when".

So yeah. We're not exactly too sure about what the branches are up to.

It's not like this matters anyway, you'll probably have your share of WM7 roms here in xda.

Yunabeco said:

It's not like this matters anyway, you'll probably have your share of WM7 roms here in xda.

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I wouldn't bet on that. Developing a ROM based on an entirely new CE kernel is a totally different proposition to going to a different version of WM6.x - where are the hardware drivers going to come from?

I doubt it will be a new rom for us. First, its seems its being pushed to q1 2011, second, new phones with dual core processors will come out and it will hurt sales if they offer an upgrade to 7. They need to sell the new phones.
Its just business guys, its not like HTC cares so much about the current hd2 owners. They are in the money making business.

To be fair, lorin.bute is on the money here - I'll probably only have this phone a year at most and there'll be bigger & better around by the time WM7 is out.

That said, if they do release wm7 for hd2, it will a nice thing for them to do

I have doubt there will be any official WM7 release for HD2, just as there is no official WM6.5 for HD.

Shasarak said:

I wouldn't bet on that. Developing a ROM based on an entirely new CE kernel is a totally different proposition to going to a different version of WM6.x - where are the hardware drivers going to come from?

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Many devices originally running WM5 have 'unofficial' WM6(.5.x) Roms available.

Drivers can be created or taken from devices using the same hardware.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if WM7 turns out to be able to use 6.x hardware drivers.

If the HD2 continues to be a well sold device, and -not unimportant- the first device that meets the WM7 HW Specs, it could be a logical choice for HTC to come up with an upgrade.

And offcourse it also depends on when WM7 will be available. If it comes out in April, the HD2 may still be HTC's 'flagship'. If it comes out in november, chances are the HD2 is not that fast, big and high tech anymore..

@tomasz
Going from WM6 to WM7 is something completely different than going from WM5 to WM6. WM5 and WM6 share the same kernel (kinda), so it's easy to update, as all the drivers still work. Drivers made for WM6 will not work on WM7.

But HD2 is testing WM7 on the HD2 and it only takes someone to leak a ROM and we'll have all the necessary software to port WM7 to the HD2. So even if HTC doesn't release an official update, I'm pretty sure that we'll get it.

But we definitely can't develop the necessary software ourselves and it's not like the updates from WM5 to WM6, that's where Shasarak is right. All we can do now is wait and see what happens.

tomasz said:

Many devices originally running WM5 have 'unofficial' WM6(.5.x) Roms available.

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Yes, but Windows Mobile 5.0, 6.0, 6.1 and 6.5 are all based on Windows CE version 5-point-something. (You forget how little development has been going on with Windows Mobile for the past several years - very little has actually changed between 5.0 and 6.5). Going to WM7 we go to a Windows CE version 6 kernel, which is completely different.

tomasz said:

Drivers can be created or taken from devices using the same hardware.

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What devices are there which have identical hardware to the HD2 and are running WM7? I take the point that there probably will be devices out there with similar hardware running WM7 at some point; but look at the issues people are currently having porting graphics drivers from the Toshiba TG01 to the HD2 (and they really do have virtually identical hardware) - it mostly works, but it's not perfect. And every device onboard needs a driver - not just the main chipset, but things like the camera too. What are the chances a WM7 phone will have an identical camera to the HD2? And where are we going to get a WM7-compatible radio ROM from?

tomasz said:

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if WM7 turns out to be able to use 6.x hardware drivers.

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It's already been announced that it won't.

tomasz said:

If the HD2 continues to be a well sold device, and -not unimportant- the first device that meets the WM7 HW Specs, it could be a logical choice for HTC to come up with an upgrade.

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It would be a totally illogical choice for an upgrade, because WM7 isn't due out until Q4 this year - likely late Q4 according to some rumours. That means the HD2's successor will probably launch as HTC's first (flagship) WM7 phone. At that point, if HTC issues a WM7 upgrade for the HD2 they will be seriously cannibalising HD3 sales; from HTC's perspective, they want anyone who wishes to upgrade to WM7 to buy a new phone to do it. There was no official WM6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD for the same reason.

freyberry said:

But HD2 is testing WM7 on the HD2 and it only takes someone to leak a ROM and we'll have all the necessary software to port WM7 to the HD2. So even if HTC doesn't release an official update, I'm pretty sure that we'll get it.

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If HTC are testing WM7 on actual HD2 hardware, then there may indeed be a helpful leak at some point. Do you have a source for that claim, or are you just being optimistic?

by 2011, i think i can upgrade my phone again since it reaching the end of my contract....

Shasarak said:

It would be a totally illogical choice for an upgrade, because WM7 isn't due out until Q4 this year - likely late Q4 according to some rumours. That means the HD2's successor will probably launch as HTC's first (flagship) WM7 phone. At that point, if HTC issues a WM7 upgrade for the HD2 they will be seriously cannibalising HD3 sales; from HTC's perspective, they want anyone who wishes to upgrade to WM7 to buy a new phone to do it. There was no official WM6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD for the same reason.

If HTC are testing WM7 on actual HD2 hardware, then there may indeed be a helpful leak at some point. Do you have a source for that claim, or are you just being optimistic?

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OK, some additions to your points.

I really don't think that a WM7 upgrade would hurt HD3 sales. Would Apple still sell the iPhone 3G if it did hurt 3GS sales? Probably not. If someone wants an HD3, he'll buy an HD3. If someone doesn't want to spend that much, he'll buy a cheaper device, which could then be the HD2 (because it saves HTC some costs of developing new mid-range phones if they continue to sell the last gen devices, just like Apple does). The reason for not providing a WM6.5 upgrade to the Touch HD is that they have to draw a line somewhere. Testing and adjusting new WM versions causes additional costs and they have to decide if it pays (because they give out the upgrade for free, so the "only" thing they get in return is satisfaction of their customers). Yes, I do think that they should have provided WM6.5 for the Touch HD, but apparently they decided that it would not pay. Apple only has to support two last-gen devices, it would be much too expensive for HTC to develop upgrades for all their devices, so they have to choose which ones to support.

About HTC testing WM7 on the HD2: I know that the necessary software exists, but I can't tell you any more than that (and I don't know more than that). Of course I can not guarantee that there will be a leak, I'm just being optimistic about this. Only time will tell if there will be an official upgrade or a leak that we can use, but yes, I am optimistic

snerkler said:

HTC customer support team
HTC Corp. Global Service Division
http://www.htc.com/europe/CA_Hotline.aspx"

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I wouldn't bet a penny on that statement.
All I've read so far about HTC customer support responses (HD2: ROM upgrades, warranty, release datesm..) were vague. One not knowing what the other one said, contradictious statements, etc.

Unless that "confirmation" is not from a "higher positioned" employee, it's not more promising than the russian tweet about the Upgrade.

Maybe I'm a skeptic, but the only thing I believe from that statement is that WM7 is scheduled for release in November. I wouldn't be surpsied if like most CS reps he was a bit confused and didn't realize that MS/HTC is probably going to push out 6.5.3 to the HD.

More than likely 6.5.3 will be released as a free download
WM7 will start appearing in Nov (on new devices though)

And since I've never seen HTC develop 2 OS updates for a device, I don't see it happening now, unless times are changing and that WM7 license is free or something.

Personally I do believe we will get an update from HTC for the HD2 but I dont think it will be when WM7 launches or anytime soon after that. I hope I am wrong but if WM7 is as good as we hope and erases the ghosts of previous WinMo iterations then we will see an influx of new Handsets from most of the manufacturers. Leaving little time for the HD2...until the dust settles that it is...

Just my opinion mind you, I am thoroughly expecting to be wrong on this...

I'd say Windows 7 is being tested on the HD2 right now.

http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/microsoft-implies-windows-mobile-7-headed-to-htc-hd2

freyberry said:

OK, some additions to your points.

I really don't think that a WM7 upgrade would hurt HD3 sales. Would Apple still sell the iPhone 3G if it did hurt 3GS sales? Probably not.

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The critical difference there is that the iPhone 3G is still an active product: Apple is still making and selling them. (Though you'll note that they discontinued the 16GB version of the 3G as soon as the 3GS launched for precisely that reason - so as to avoid hurting 3GS sales by competing with it).

HTC doesn't operate like that. They have well-defined market sectors, and when a new device comes out in any one sector, the old one is retired and production ceases. Consider, for example, the Touch Diamond, Touch Pro and Touch HD - once the TD2, TP2 and HD2 came out, each of those replaced the earlier model, and the earlier version immediately ceased production. They didn't keep the old Touch HD going as a cheap version of the HD2; that role is fulfilled by the TD2.

Very few manufacturers offer any sort of ongoing development for phone models which aren't being made any more, and HTC is no exception: once the HD2 is no longer being made and sold, we won't see any more major updates for it. For so long as it remains in production, we may.

So the question is simply whether WM7 will become available before or after the HD2 ceases production. If it comes out several months before, there's a good chance of a port (because not offering it would hurt HD2 sales in the mean time). If it comes out after the HD2 isn't being sold any more, there is no chance. And all the precedents suggest that they will stop making HD2's as soon as a replacement model comes out, and that the replacement will likely appear about a year after the model it replaces - which is round about the time WM7 is expected to launch.

Even if you ignore HTC's history of model replacement, it's still very unlikely that the HD2 will remain in production after a new flagship model is released. The iPhone 3G and 3GS can coexist because there's such a large gap between the two in hardware terms (in the same way as there is between the HD2 and the TD2). But it's doubtful that the HD3 hardware will actually be that far ahead of the HD2. (Look how long HTC stuck with MSM72XX chipsets before moving to Snapdragon; it'll likely be a while before they move on from Snapdragon to anything faster). The fact that the HD3 has WM7 will quite likely be the primary thing that differentiates it from the HD2; giving existing HD2 owners access to WM7 would eliminate all motivation for upgrading. There's no way HTC will do that.

I paste also here my comment:

Well, HTC can motivate consumers to buy new devices end of 2010 in 2 ways - by not upgrading existing to WM7 and offering it only with the new devices, or by offering new devices with much faster hardware, which will be an incentive on its own. I am not sure which option HTC will choose though ... having in mind how the competition will upgrade the hardware soon (Apple, Motorola) I think HTC will be forced to do the same as well (and for good)

What I am sure about is that currently MS is testing WM7 on HD2. I hope that at least this version leaks out inofficially

Windows 7 mobile is already in leak..

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/17/early-windows-mobile-7-build-given-some-hands-on-time-incompati/

mickfarr said:

I'd say Windows 7 is being tested on the HD2 right now.

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Well, WM6.5 has been tested also on Xperia X1 and finally there didn't come any update. I think that it is normal that the developers test it on phones that are able to work with the new OS, but it doesn't mean that HD2 will definetly get an official update - though I pray for it...

imperiallight said:

Windows 7 mobile is already in leak..

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/17/early-windows-mobile-7-build-given-some-hands-on-time-incompati/

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http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010/01/17/windows-mobile-7-rumors-getting-out-of-hand/

Certainly not the most reputable source... I would say... also doesn't seem to be a very educated one either.