Camera: No picture detail setting?

panamamike · Oct 2, 2011

I've been struggling with the SK17 picture quality. I've been very underwhelmed, the nr is very heavy handed and in general even under the best light conditions produces low quality pictures.

Then it dawned on me, there must be a picture fineness setting. Meaning, how much detail do you want the camera to capture. I had this thought after reviewing a number of pictures. None of them are greater than 1MB in size. A high quality jpg image will be up to 1.5MB in size.

Maybe Sony could add a fineness setting for the jpg capture?

A few other things I've found just by obervation.

Lowest ISO looks to be 64
Highest ISO 800
fastest shutter 1/1250

Note, not the easiest thing to get these values, as EV and sports mode need to be engaged.

Mike

irumbustalin · Oct 3, 2011

this is the worst ever camera phone i ever had. videos are lacking in detail. we don't know if it will be rectified in the coming 2.3.4 update?

sulkie · Oct 3, 2011

Yeah, not the best camera for non-bright conditions.
I installed an original gingerbread camera for some other Xperia device with the same sensor but modded to work for Mini Pro. And took some shots for comparison with the highest quality settings (Super Fine) on the original one. File sizes were about 30% larger but with no very little to no differences so i stuck with the Sony's one.

They're coming up with some camera tweaks for new update so maybe they'll manage to improve this aspect although i doubt it.

panamamike · Oct 3, 2011

sulkie said:
Yeah, not the best camera for non-bright conditions.
I installed an original gingerbread camera for some other Xperia device with the same sensor but modded to work for Mini Pro. And took some shots for comparison with the highest quality settings (Super Fine) on the original one. File sizes were about 30% larger but with no very little to no differences so i stuck with the Sony's one.

They're coming up with some camera tweaks for new update so maybe they'll manage to improve this aspect although i doubt it.

I hope they can come up with some improvements. Hopefully software can get better quality. The picture quality is even poor with very good lighting.

Something to note, the lens is rather small, I compared it to the C905a Exif data. the C905a is outfitted with a 6mm lens, the one in the Minipro is 4mm. That's a 33% difference in size!

I don't know the size of the W580i lens, it didn't come out in the EXIF data.

Mike

sulkie · Oct 3, 2011

Maybe im not a demanding camera user but daylight photos look good enough for me, although they probably can be improved via software.

Only thing that i'd like to see improved is low light photos but i dont think software can help much there. Its much more dependant on sensor size.
We'll see.

panamamike · Oct 3, 2011

sulkie said:
Maybe im not a demanding camera user but daylight photos look good enough for me, although they probably can be improved via software.

Only thing that i'd like to see improved is low light photos but i dont think software can help much there. Its much more dependant on sensor size.
We'll see.

You're right, at the end of the day it's the sensor size/quality.
I'm assuming the camera is doing a lot of internal processing. NR as well as compression. Hopefully, they can do something about reducing both.

As you say, if the sensor isn't up to the task, it won't matter.

Mike

r33p · Oct 3, 2011

panamamike said:
You're right, at the end of the day it's the sensor size/quality.
I'm assuming the camera is doing a lot of internal processing. NR as well as compression. Hopefully, they can do something about reducing both.

As you say, if the sensor isn't up to the task, it won't matter.

Mike

Its a crap cam.
Arc got a way better cam, but its a cost/marketing issue... see? They want to niche ray,mini,neo,arc,play
And this shows on the pricetag/targeting ads..
Basic marketing.

sulkie · Oct 3, 2011

r33p said:
Its a crap cam.
Arc got a way better cam, but its a cost/marketing issue... see? They want to niche ray,mini,neo,arc,play
And this shows on the pricetag/targeting ads..
Basic marketing.

Well its the smallest and cheapest of them all so corners had to be cut somewhere.
Theres also the segmentation of products that you mentioned but every single manufacturer does it.
We all wish it was a bit better but its not 'crap'. And daylight pictures are decent.

Edit: Check out this comparison. Load up mini pro and arc and you'll see that Arc isnt actually that much better even though its 8mpix and device itself is highend-ish. Also load up Galaxy Ace which has 5mpix, it blows mini pro and arc out of the water. Same goes for xperia neo. 2011 Xperia phones have had sup bar cameras it seems. They all have the same imperfections, not much differences between them. http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=3713&idPhone2=3724&idPhone3=3619

panamamike · Oct 4, 2011

sulkie said:
Well its the smallest and cheapest of them all so corners had to be cut somewhere.
Theres also the segmentation of products that you mentioned but every single manufacturer does it.
We all wish it was a bit better but its not 'crap'. And daylight pictures are decent.

Edit: Check out this comparison. Load up mini pro and arc and you'll see that Arc isnt actually that much better even though its 8mpix and device itself is highend-ish. Also load up Galaxy Ace which has 5mpix, it blows mini pro and arc out of the water. Same goes for xperia neo. 2011 Xperia phones have had sup bar cameras it seems. They all have the same imperfections, not much differences between them. http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=3713&idPhone2=3724&idPhone3=3619

Nice find! Looks like there are 2 main issues that make me unhappy with the PQ.

1: Is the noise reduction pattern, it looks to have a blotch pattern to me. It's not a pleasant constant grain like the iPhone 4.

2: Dynamic range looks pretty poor.

I think both of these could be due to the NR and compression algo. It would be nice if Sony would provide something better, or if it could be fixed via software.

It's a shame the test chart didn't provide better real world fine detail examples. I like to look at hair for this type of test and apparently that sample photo of the girls isn't helpful since the DSLR cameras didn't show good detail in that area.

However, it does give a feel for just how good of a job the camera can do.

Mike

r33p · Oct 4, 2011

panamamike said:
Nice find! Looks like there are 2 main issues that make me unhappy with the PQ.

1: Is the noise reduction pattern, it looks to have a blotch pattern to me. It's not a pleasant constant grain like the iPhone 4.

2: Dynamic range looks pretty poor.

I think both of these could be due to the NR and compression algo. It would be nice if Sony would provide something better, or if it could be fixed via software.

It's a shame the test chart didn't provide better real world fine detail examples. I like to look at hair for this type of test and apparently that sample photo of the girls isn't helpful since the DSLR cameras didn't show good detail in that area.

However, it does give a feel for just how good of a job the camera can do.

Mike

Its a midrange/entry level phone ffs. Dont compare it with iphone4.
Its not on the same planet.
And a compression algo is indeed controlled via software. Same with nr. Stuff that SE finetunes with firmware updates.
Now, enjoy what you get for the money or buy the Arc S.

panamamike · Oct 4, 2011

r33p said:
Its a midrange/entry level phone ffs. Dont compare it with iphone4.
Its not on the same planet.
And a compression algo is indeed controlled via software. Same with nr. Stuff that SE finetunes with firmware updates.
Now, enjoy what you get for the money or buy the Arc S.

Well, the iphone4 comparison isn't appropriate, but I started the thread because I was surprise that my old SE W580i produced better photos, take resolution into account. It also has a setting for normal vs. fine level detail, I was surprised to find the Mini Pro doesn't have that option.

I think the mini pro has room for improvement...

Mike

r33p · Oct 5, 2011

Well i had a couple of androids. Non wich where perfect.

panamamike · Oct 6, 2011

r33p said:
Well i had a couple of androids. Non wich where perfect.

I agree, all phones have their short comings, I just don't like it when a phone is gimped, meaning the hardware is able, but the software lack of features or bugs get in the way...

Mike

panamamike · Oct 18, 2011

sulkie said:
Yeah, not the best camera for non-bright conditions.
I installed an original gingerbread camera for some other Xperia device with the same sensor but modded to work for Mini Pro. And took some shots for comparison with the highest quality settings (Super Fine) on the original one. File sizes were about 30% larger but with no very little to no differences so i stuck with the Sony's one.

They're coming up with some camera tweaks for new update so maybe they'll manage to improve this aspect although i doubt it.

I tried some of the 3rd party cameras, 360 camera and lgcamera. Similar results, not noticeable PQ improvement and much larger files 3x in some cases.

Yet I'm not convinced these programs have full control of the camera. Wondering how the sensor RAW image is processed by the camera to produce a jpeg ect...

BTW, how did you determine which sensor is in the camera?

Mike

FreeZr · Oct 18, 2011

I find the quality to be very good. It's a digital camera afterall, dont expect magic on a 200€ device.

berz · Oct 18, 2011

If u guys take still pic's in daylight , then HDR cam+ takes some awesome shots

here's a sample u can judge.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/20111014131928.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/20111014125355.jpg/

majushkalee · Dec 31, 2011

when i takce a picture with my camera on xperia mini pro, as a result the photos are really small when i see them on my pc, how can I change the size of the picture??

hal027 · Dec 31, 2011

Try to use lgcamera...more options, you´ll find it in the market

dumraden · Dec 31, 2011

To be honest i have a pretty good experience with my Active's camera. I had it mounted on my ski boot, and inside the strap (which adds another layer of plastic, making it a bit more blurry). I must say i was impressed.

Camera: No picture detail setting?

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