Simplistic HTC Hero Kernel Question.

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E2K

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2009
127
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Speaking as one who has compiled kernels in the past there are three components required here:
  1. The kernel source- this is typically available from http://kernel.org/ If HTC have made any changes to the source of the kernel itself then these should be apparent in their distribution of the kernel source
  2. The relevant configuration file '.config' which should accompany their distribution of the kernel source and permit you to compile any other kernel as a drop in replacement.
  3. Source code and makefiles for any custom kernel modules ('drivers' in windows terminology) In Linux these have to be compiled together with the kernel.

To use a cookery analogy:
The kernel source is the raw ingredients. It can be set up for anything from a supercomputer to a DVD player depending on how you use it. The kernel config is the method which will allow you to bake the type of cake you intend. The modules sources are any of HTC’s own custom ingredients required for everything to work. THe kernel is the finished cake which you eat.

Good analogy!
I want to eat the cake :)
So at this point, we do not have the ingredients or the special recipe to make a Hero cake?
 

E2K

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2009
127
0
I just got a mail from HTC customer support,
They said that they don't know when it will be available, only to say that I have to check the website where it will be posted..
:mad:
 

E2K

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2009
127
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What Exactly did you ask them for? Are you able to post your email and their response here?

It says that the mail is for me only, plus it's in Dutch, but I will translate the important part anyway:

At the moment we do not know when the kernel source for the Hero will be released. The best thing you can do is to keep an eye on our website, as all updates will be available here. Sorry again for the inconvenience.
 

SquiffSquiff

Senior Member
Aug 1, 2009
85
5
Thanks. Well that isn't right. HTC are required by the GPL to provide the source code for those components licensed under it to everyone they distribute the binary to. The kernel is licensed under the GPL, as are several other components such as khtml/webkit in the web browser etc. There is a clear precedent that embedded devices such as mobile phones constitute a distribution of the binary (the 'cake' in my comparison example) and so require provision of the source (the recipe). The distributor may make a reasonable charge for supplying this, e.g. cost of media and packaging , and is not required to distribute the source publicly, only to those people in receipt of the binary. Google 'netgear gpl'; 'kiss gpl' ; 'bt gpl' to see examples. I will request the source code myself in the UK and work from there.
 

E2K

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2009
127
0
Thanks. Well that isn't right. HTC are required by the GPL to provide the source code for those components licensed under it to everyone they distribute the binary to. The kernel is licensed under the GPL, as are several other components such as khtml/webkit in the web browser etc. There is a clear precedent that embedded devices such as mobile phones constitute a distribution of the binary (the 'cake' in my comparison example) and so require provision of the source (the recipe). The distributor may make a reasonable charge for supplying this, e.g. cost of media and packaging , and is not required to distribute the source publicly, only to those people in receipt of the binary. Google 'netgear gpl'; 'kiss gpl' ; 'bt gpl' to see examples. I will request the source code myself in the UK and work from there.

That is a good initiative, I am afraid however, that they will pretend that they don't know when it will be available. :-(
 

foxmeister

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2008
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I will request the source code myself in the UK and work from there.

At this stage, I guess that most people have asked when the source will be available, rather than actually requesting the source code.

You should look at the licenses (Menu->Settings->About Phone->Legal Information->Open Source Licenses) as according to the GPL this must include a written offer to supply the source code. This may spell out how it may be obtained.

Regards,

Dave
 

foxmeister

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2008
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That is a good initiative, I am afraid however, that they will pretend that they don't know when it will be available. :-(

This in not acceptable according to the GPL.

The GPL guide here states:

If you ship an offer for source with your product but cannot actually deliver immediately on that offer when your customers receive it, you should expect an enforcement action.

The offer must be included in the licenses on the Hero, so if you make a formal request taking up that offer, HTC *must* act on it immediately or be in breach of the GPL.

Of course, this does give them a little time in which they can say they demand payment in advance for "costs" associated with shipping physical media, but I guess that should cause a delay of no more than a a couple of weeks max.

Regards,

Dave
 

randology

Member
May 25, 2009
25
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I twittered HTC earlier today asking about the kernel source and got this response:

htc: Hey, I wanted to respond to you personally because you have been really patient asking about the Hero kernel.

htc: I am pressing this matter as much as I can. As soon as I have an ETA I will post it. For the time being, I don't have an update.
 

SquiffSquiff

Senior Member
Aug 1, 2009
85
5
Posted just now to HTC customer services at http://www.htc.com/www/cs_mail.aspx. Formatting added here for ease of reference:

Dear Sirs

I am an owner of one of your ‘Hero’ mobile phones. I would be grateful if you would provide me with a copy of the source code for those parts of the software that are licensed under the GPL, including the kernel and all relevant configuration files and make files.

Quoting from the licensing information readable on the phone itself under ‘Menu/settings/about phone/legal information/HTC legal’:

‘For the open source file(s) contained herein, please access “open source license” section located at Settings\About phone\Legal information on the device for the relevant copyright and licensing terms. You may obtain a copy of Apache License, version 2.0 at http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0. You may also obtain a copy of GNU General Public License, Version 2 at Free Software Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA02110-1301, USA.

Until the date that is three years after you acquired the Software, you may obtain a copy of the source code corresponding to the binaries for GPL licensed file by sending a request to HTC customer service at www.htc.com, and HTC will send you a link to such source code’


Copies of various licenses, including the GPL version 2 are included under Menu/settings/about phone/legal information/Open source licenses.

I look forward to hearing from you soon

Many thanks

(name given)
 

foxmeister

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2008
4,035
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I have sent a similar request, except that mine added:

Whilst I am aware that you have previously complied with the terms of the GPL for earlier Android products by providing the relevant source on the developer section of your website, you have not as yet made the Hero source code available. As per the terms of the GPL, you are required to provide this *immediately* upon receipt of this email taking up the written offer to supply source code, as it is a condition of the GPL that this should be available at the same time as the original binary distribution of the software.

As you are no doubt aware, it is not acceptable according to the terms of the GPL to ignore this formal request, or to state that it is not currently available and will be published/supplied at a later, unspecified, date.

I am prepared to pay for physical media if necessary, though I imagine these can be distributed electronically.

Regards,

Dave
 

E2K

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2009
127
0
I sent something similar this morning, in Dutch. What coincidence :p

The Magic and Dream kernel sources were only available months after release though.. right?

edit:
Got a mail asking me to call them again; so I did.
Talked to a woman, explained the situation again, and she told me now to wait, as she will talk to her superior.
I asked specifically to get in contact with a HTC development person, and not a PR person so fingers crossed...
edit2: nope, there is no communication possible between HTC and the development devisions or something.
She told me that they did not now until today, that the htc windows mobile 6.5 update was available yesterday (sic).
So that is all I can do. All we can hope for now is they either are intimidated by the GPL 'claims', or they just release it soon. I am getting sick of the htc contact list right now :p

edit@ SquiffSquiff: wow, those are strong words! :)
I am sure they will hurry now, given that they know what slashdot is.
 
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SquiffSquiff

Senior Member
Aug 1, 2009
85
5
Their response @15:04 (GMT +1) today:

New Response From [ Pete (Europe Support (Tech)) ]
Thanks for your email.

We are still pushing our developers to provide us with the source code and for the links to be added to http://developer.htc.com/

I realise this is not the answer you were looking for, but i will keep a record of your email and alert you when the download is available.

best regrads,
HTC Europe Support

My follow up:

Dear Pete

Thank you for your response. I am afraid that 'pushing' your developers is not enough however. I understand from relevant web forums that you and your colleagues are giving similar responses to a number of other customers. HTC is legally required to provide the source code on request to customers in receipt of GPL binaries distributed by you regardless of your developers' wishes. Delays are not an option. Furthermore this product has been available for three months in the UK so you have already had plenty of time to prepare. Would you prefer that your developers and colleagues read about their non-compliance with the GPL on Slashdot?

Regards

(name given)
 

SquiffSquiff

Senior Member
Aug 1, 2009
85
5
Well I have been able to grab the current kernel config of my phone with
Code:
adb pull ./proc/config.gz ~/Desktop/Hero_kernel
but I am not up to cross compiling and installing it on the device. Is anyone able to comment on whether this is 'enough'? config file attached - had to convert to zip file because this forum does not accept *.gz upload or files without extensions :eek:
 

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foxmeister

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2008
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383
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I've had no response at all to my request! I guess they didn't like it when I said that it was not acceptable to tell me it would be available at some point in the future.

Regards,

Dave
 

foxmeister

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2008
4,035
383
Ealing
Ok, just got a "response" from HTC customer service.

Please refer to T-Mobile as they have requested that we only deal with repairs on the devices and not technical support.
so im afraid that we can only suggest to call T-Mobile for any technical questions.
thank you.

The rep clearly didn't read past the point in my email saying that I had a T-Mobile branded Hero. As least SquiffSquiff managed to get someone who was at least able to determine the nature of the request!

I've replied in disgust at this terrible excuse for customer service advising the individual concerned to go back and read my original request properly!

Regards,

Dave
 

mopodo

Senior Member
Aug 16, 2009
142
51
Well I have been able to grab the current kernel config of my phone with
Code:
adb pull ./proc/config.gz ~/Desktop/Hero_kernel
but I am not up to cross compiling and installing it on the device. Is anyone able to comment on whether this is 'enough'? config file attached - had to convert to zip file because this forum does not accept *.gz upload or files without extensions :eek:

You can grab the config but you dont have the modules written by HTC to fully compile your kernel, so some hardware (camera, bluetooth, GPS etc wont work) if you dont have the "drivers" for it (dont know which modules are affected)

take a look at
http://source.android.com/ for android kernel compiling ;)