[POLL] Black clipping / black crush

Do you experience "black crush" on your Galaxy Note?

  • Severe crush (can see the number 1 in test image)

    Votes: 74 57.4%
  • Moderate crush (can see up to numbers 2-4)

    Votes: 20 15.5%
  • Minor crush (can see up to numbers 5-6)

    Votes: 6 4.7%
  • No, tones gradually go to black.

    Votes: 29 22.5%

  • Total voters
    129
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tenderchkn

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2012
143
23
I wanted to branch out from the other thread and actually do a poll to see how many people are experiencing this problem, and how severely. In the other thread (http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1515299), several people claim that their copies are absolutely perfect and show no signs of black crush. If you indeed have a "good" screen, your feedback will be incredibly valuable. Please post pictures of your phone, if you do the test below and the blacks display correctly!

The reason that most of us are seeing "black crush" or ugly blockiness in dark areas in videos and photos is that these artifacts are present in the source material. Blocky patterns are a result of compression, and are most noticeable at the extreme ends of the dynamic range, where there is the least amount of detail. So if these compression artifacts are present in the source material, why do we not see it on other devices? It is because most other displays are properly calibrated to gradually gradate dark tones from dark gray to black. In other words, on a properly calibrated display, the color #000000 (black, or RGB 0,0,0) is virtually in distinguishable from #010101 (RGB 1,1,1). In fact, it is hard to tell a difference until #050505 (RGB 5,5,5). Therefore, most of the clipping that occurs as a result of compression artifacts is hidden. However, with the Note, #010101 is very much distinguishable from #000000. Dark tones are too bright, and we're able to see clearly until #010101. Instead of gradually moving to black, at #000000, it drops off a cliff. This is why we see such a dramatic different between the darkest grays and blacks, and why this black crush issue is so noticeable.

The side effect of having grays that are too bright is that when watching Blu-ray quality HD video, the dark areas look washed out, and the picture lacks "punch". High quality video that is properly encoded very rarely have pure blacks (to avoid clipping). As a result, dark scenes appear too bright on our phones.

The method to test is with a gamma test pattern, which I have attached. Download QuickPic from Market/Play (free). Go to Settings -> Viewer, and check the box for 32-bit render. Then, download the attached .png file, and view it in full screen in QuickPic. Make sure to do this in a DARK room!

Each box with a number has a corresponding RGB value. For example, the box with the number 1 is RGB 1,1,1, and so on. Load it on your Note and report back the smallest number that you are able to see. Also, does it gradually go to black, or does it just abruptly go to black without a smooth transition?

Last week, I went to two AT&T stores, and tested every display model with this method. Even with the bright store lights, it was possible to see box #1 on every phone. Repeated the test on an iPad 2, Galaxy Tab 10.1, and Skyrocket. The iPad was too dark, as the entire left side of the test picture is unreadable. On the Galaxy Tab, I could see box #7 or so. The Skyrocket showed a similar problem to the Note, as it seemed to abruptly transition to black. However, it was still a bit smoother than the Note, and box #4 was the smallest I could see.

Here's a picture of the test on my phone. The right side is the test image itself, so you can see how it is supposed to look like on your computer screen. Compare this with what you see on your phones.

1.jpg
 

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Deviance

Member
Mar 18, 2007
12
0
San Diego, CA
I can see all the numbers on the left side in a dark bathroom only black is the part above the number 1. I'm thinking of exchanging my note...



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-2
 

Skizzy034

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2010
5,509
1,123
40
Amsterdam, NY
www.facebook.com
I just updated the YouTube app and watched all those videos that were linked in the other thread and it actually seems to have made a difference. Looks a lot better. Maybe it was just bad quality before?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
 

tenderchkn

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2012
143
23
I can see all the numbers on the left side in a dark bathroom only black is the part above the number 1. I'm thinking of exchanging my note...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-2

I'm not sure exchanging it will do anything. Like I said, I have tried 5 different display models. I have also had 2 Notes myself, so that's 7 copies total and they all exhibit this issue. When people watch a video, like starfield 720p and claim that it's "perfect", that can be subjective. But if you're able to clearly see the box with the number 1, and is dramatically different from the black box above it, then you can objectively conclude that the device has a problem. If you go exchange it, and get lucky, report back. One of the things I want to find out is what percentage of Notes (if any) display dark tones correctly.

If i understand correctly its not hardware then?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA

I have no idea if it is hardware or not. It could be something as simple as an incorrect gamma curve, or it could be caused by a hardware limitation. If you want to get more into the technical stuff, you can refer to Supercurio's thread here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1430847
 

Skizzy034

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2010
5,509
1,123
40
Amsterdam, NY
www.facebook.com
I'm not sure exchanging it will do anything. Like I said, I have tried 5 different display models. I have also had 2 Notes myself, so that's 7 copies total and they all exhibit this issue. When people watch a video, like starfield 720p and claim that it's "perfect", that can be subjective. But if you're able to clearly see the box with the number 1, and is dramatically different from the black box above it, then you can objectively conclude that the device has a problem. If you go exchange it, and get lucky, report back. One of the things I want to find out is what percentage of Notes (if any) display dark tones correctly.



I have no idea if it is hardware or not. It could be something as simple as an incorrect gamma curve, or it could be caused by a hardware limitation. If you want to get more into the technical stuff, you can refer to Supercurio's thread here: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1430847

Thanks. I don't want to return my phone to best buy again for a 5th time. I think I've shopped there for the last time. I had quality control problems with them with the galaxy tab also. Im gonna see if at&t will carry out my exchange this.time

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
 

tenderchkn

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2012
143
23
I just updated the YouTube app and watched all those videos that were linked in the other thread and it actually seems to have made a difference. Looks a lot better. Maybe it was just bad quality before?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA

Make sure to test with the attached .png file. Like I said, watching a video can be subjective. If you open up the test image in full screen and can see all the way to the number 1, then the videos may "look" better, but the underlying problem still exists.
 

Deviance

Member
Mar 18, 2007
12
0
San Diego, CA
I'm not sure exchanging it will do anything. Like I said, I have tried 5 different display models. I have also had 2 Notes myself, so that's 7 copies total and they all exhibit this issue. When people watch a video, like starfield 720p and claim that it's "perfect", that can be subjective. But if you're able to clearly see the box with the number 1, and is dramatically different from the black box above it, then you can objectively conclude that the device has a problem. If you go exchange it, and get lucky, report back. One of the things I want to find out is what percentage of Notes (if any) display dark tones correctly.

Thanks for your input. I am going to show this to ATT and see if they can let me test the note's and hope to find one that is better. There has been some luck with others in the other threads posted. I hope I can get one that is better or Samsung fixes the problems. I saw the clipping problem for the first time on a 2gig 720p copy of Killer Elite and I was so mad that my new phone has this problem.
 

stevieraveon

Senior Member
Oct 9, 2007
152
29
****, I never realized an issue, but I did the test and it looks like the picture of your phone. I can see all the numbers on the left.
 

jpeg42

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2010
875
341
Oregon
Mine looks just like yours... so I guess I am severe :D

Test does look quite different depending on how much you turn up the brightness, but either way I can see all the numbers.

Edit: but no way in hell am I returning it for a model that runs hot, is laggy, purple blotches, or whatever other issues people complain about around here.
 
Last edited:

00mred00

Senior Member
Aug 11, 2010
2,980
408
Princeton Tx
See on mine i can barely see the numbers on the left


Has anyone found a larger version of the test pic? 400x640 seems too small

****, I never realized an issue, but I did the test and it looks like the picture of your phone. I can see all the numbers on the left.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA App
 
Last edited:

tenderchkn

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2012
143
23
See on mine i can barely see the numbers on the left

Has anyone found a larger version of the test pic? 400x640 seems too small

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA App

Are you doing this in a dark room, and viewing the image in full screen using QuickPic as I suggested? The resolution doesn't matter, as these are solid blocks of color. When you display it on full screen, it will stretch to cover your screen.
 

stevieraveon

Senior Member
Oct 9, 2007
152
29
Are you doing this in a dark room, and viewing the image in full screen using QuickPic as I suggested? The resolution doesn't matter, as these are solid colors. When you display it on full screen, it will stretch to cover your screen.

Yeah, I was in the living room and looked and thought there was no problem, until I went into the bathroom with all the lights off...then it was clear as day.
 

JGuinan007

Senior Member
Jun 1, 2010
531
55
Philadelphia
Google Pixel 6 Pro
So what can we do to fix this?

The Pic on my phone looks exactly like the one you show in the 1st post on the left I can clearly see all the way to #1.

So what can we do to fix this if there is anything that can be done or should we send our Notes back to Samsung?:confused:
 

borijess

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2010
9,712
1,643
Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra
I can see all the way down to 1 and this is my 4 phone. The black clipping issue is almost non existent on my phone. Don't know if this test is accurate.

Sent from the TermiNOTEr! ;-)
 

i_max2k2

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2007
177
23
Unfortunately I can see all the numbers, I have another Note which needs fixing, once its fixed I'll post again.
 

tenderchkn

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2012
143
23
The Pic on my phone looks exactly like the one you show in the 1st post on the left I can clearly see all the way to #1.

So what can we do to fix this if there is anything that can be done or should we send our Notes back to Samsung?:confused:

As of now, there is no known fix. Supercurio has been working on a fix for this since January. I have linked his thread below. The purpose of this thread, like I said, is to create an objective method of checking if black clipping exists on your device. This is a reliable and easy way of reproducing the issue, with the hope that you can easily demonstrate this to an AT&T or Samsung rep.

I can see all the way down to 1 and this is my 4 phone. The black clipping issue is almost non existent on my phone. Don't know if this test is accurate.

Sent from the TermiNOTEr! ;-)

If you can see all the way down to 1, then your phone definitely has the black clipping issue. As I said before, watching a video is subjective. I can download the starfield 720p video with tubemate, and it will look great - but that's because the blacks in the video are pure black. With a real world video, this will not be the case.

When you see the box with RGB values of 1,1,1 and it is dramatically different than the top left box with RGB values of 0,0,0, then your phone exhibits the problem. If you still have doubts, go create your own image, and fill in half with RGB 1,1,1 and the other half with RGB 0,0,0. Put it on your phone and you will see a huge difference. On a properly calibrated display, the difference should not be discernible. Try it on other devices (TV, laptop, monitor, other phones, whatever), and you will see what I mean.

Read Supercurio's description of the problem in his thread: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1430847

He says, "Worst offender being shadows rendering: my diagnostic: what's supposed to be dark is not so dark.. and then boom its black (ie black clipping)
As a result color look dull, some UI elements show not quite as they're supposed to, and videos exhibit awful banding, blocking and ringing artifacts."

This is an accurate description of what we are all experiencing, and this test simply proves his hypothesis. I don't see how such a simple and objective test can be disputed as inaccurate.
 
Last edited:

borijess

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2010
9,712
1,643
Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra
The phone I have shows minimal black crush compared to the others three notes I had. But I just tried this test on my monitor and it barely shows 21 and 22. On my phone it shows to 1 and I thought my phone was almost perfect. Its ok I am very happy with the one I got until if any fix comes.
 

JGuinan007

Senior Member
Jun 1, 2010
531
55
Philadelphia
Google Pixel 6 Pro
Mad as Pete

What does Samsung have to say about this? Are they aware of the issue? Are they working on a fix? Will it be fixed on the new ICS Galaxy suite update? Do we have to wait for AT&T to get fix from samsung and then wait another 4 months for AT&T to send it out us? Is AT&T aware of the issue? Has anyone told PhoneArena, Android Police, or contacted the Press and Media? Should I justt return my Note and never buy Samsung again? This makes me really mad the N7000 was released back in Oct and has this issue and it still has not been addressed? We spend $650 for a phone because of the big display and it has black clipping?:mad:
 

flintdragon

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2010
347
35
When I open up the test screen using the browser, the resulting image looks pretty good with the gradual black fade to nothing. but using quickpic and gallery, it shows the clipping. What's the difference?
 
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  • 4
    From the Moderator...........

    All of you..... play nice in here, the discussion is about clipping and misc screen flaws....... if you all cannot stay on that topic or closely related then this thread gets closed.

    PeartFan40...... stop.... stop baiting ...... let it go stay on topic.....

    tenderchkn.......stop....
    inciting...... no good ever comes from it....

    Now please be respectful to each other

    Thanks All ~ oka1
    2
    I wanted to branch out from the other thread and actually do a poll to see how many people are experiencing this problem, and how severely. In the other thread (http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1515299), several people claim that their copies are absolutely perfect and show no signs of black crush. If you indeed have a "good" screen, your feedback will be incredibly valuable. Please post pictures of your phone, if you do the test below and the blacks display correctly!

    The reason that most of us are seeing "black crush" or ugly blockiness in dark areas in videos and photos is that these artifacts are present in the source material. Blocky patterns are a result of compression, and are most noticeable at the extreme ends of the dynamic range, where there is the least amount of detail. So if these compression artifacts are present in the source material, why do we not see it on other devices? It is because most other displays are properly calibrated to gradually gradate dark tones from dark gray to black. In other words, on a properly calibrated display, the color #000000 (black, or RGB 0,0,0) is virtually in distinguishable from #010101 (RGB 1,1,1). In fact, it is hard to tell a difference until #050505 (RGB 5,5,5). Therefore, most of the clipping that occurs as a result of compression artifacts is hidden. However, with the Note, #010101 is very much distinguishable from #000000. Dark tones are too bright, and we're able to see clearly until #010101. Instead of gradually moving to black, at #000000, it drops off a cliff. This is why we see such a dramatic different between the darkest grays and blacks, and why this black crush issue is so noticeable.

    The side effect of having grays that are too bright is that when watching Blu-ray quality HD video, the dark areas look washed out, and the picture lacks "punch". High quality video that is properly encoded very rarely have pure blacks (to avoid clipping). As a result, dark scenes appear too bright on our phones.

    The method to test is with a gamma test pattern, which I have attached. Download QuickPic from Market/Play (free). Go to Settings -> Viewer, and check the box for 32-bit render. Then, download the attached .png file, and view it in full screen in QuickPic. Make sure to do this in a DARK room!

    Each box with a number has a corresponding RGB value. For example, the box with the number 1 is RGB 1,1,1, and so on. Load it on your Note and report back the smallest number that you are able to see. Also, does it gradually go to black, or does it just abruptly go to black without a smooth transition?

    Last week, I went to two AT&T stores, and tested every display model with this method. Even with the bright store lights, it was possible to see box #1 on every phone. Repeated the test on an iPad 2, Galaxy Tab 10.1, and Skyrocket. The iPad was too dark, as the entire left side of the test picture is unreadable. On the Galaxy Tab, I could see box #7 or so. The Skyrocket showed a similar problem to the Note, as it seemed to abruptly transition to black. However, it was still a bit smoother than the Note, and box #4 was the smallest I could see.

    Here's a picture of the test on my phone. The right side is the test image itself, so you can see how it is supposed to look like on your computer screen. Compare this with what you see on your phones.

    1.jpg
    2
    Not sure if you guys have seen this video or not on Youtube. But this is how it obviously should and shouldn't be.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a8aIGeLERg
    2
    Just download (sceen Adjuster) from play store
    and put red (3) contrast (10 - 20)

    and check picture again
    2
    This "black crush" problem is a resilt of poor video/picture quality. It's not a flaw of the device. I have seen this occur on my SGS II, my Skyrocket, and my Note. I've also experienced this on my 28" $600 computer monitor, and even on my 52" Sharp Aquos Quattron LED LCD TV. It's a source issue, period. Of the resolution of a particular video is low, or of poornquality, pixelation or blockiness will occur. Its completely normal, and affects all types of displays. It's not unique to the Galaxy Note. Threads like this annoy me to no end. It's pretty simple, avoid low quality video and images and you won't see it. This isn't rocket science.

    Here is a link to a forum where certain blu-ray movies cause this.

    http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=40198

    Please, stop creating these ridiculous threads. All it does is create panic amoung Galaxy Note owners.

    Not trying to be rude, but seriously...The display and the rest of the hardware on the Note is perfectly fine. Actually, the Note has the best looking display I've seen on any mobile phone thus far.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note (SGH-i717) using XDA Premium.