Technical details about nook HD+ charging

modelworks · Jun 27, 2014

As an engineer I pulled some info from the datasheet for the chip the nook uses, it may help better understand charging issues.
full datasheet is on the TI site at:http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/bq24196.pdf

USB Timer when Charging from USB100mA Source
The total charging time in default mode from USB100mA source is limited by a 45-min max timer.

If you connect the nook to a low power pc port you will only be able to run the charging for 45 minutes before the charger IC stops. To start it again you have to unplug and re-plug the USB cable. The charge current for a 500ma usb port is about 440ma.

The device initiates and completes a charging cycle without software control. It automatically detects the battery
voltage and charges the battery in three phases: pre-conditioning, constant current and constant voltage. At the
end of the charging cycle, the charger automatically terminates when the charge current is below a preset limit in
the constant voltage phase. When the full battery falls below the recharge threshold, the charger will
automatically start another charging cycle.

The device fast charges at 1.5A using the charger and charges at 4.208V to the battery. The bad battery setting is for 1.8V, so if your device battery falls to that level it will not charge because the chip assumes a failed battery. I see this a lot in tablets. Someone stops using the tablet when the charge is 10% or less and then 2 weeks later picks up the tablet and it appears dead. The battery cells have discharged below the limit and now will not charge. The device will consume power even if you power off the device because the charging controller is on 24/7 regardless of any mode except shipping mode which we do not have access to . Fix for dead battery is remove the battery from the tablet, charge on external charger , replace.

The USB ports on personal computers are convenient charging source for portable devices (PDs). If the portable
device is attached to a USB host, the USB specification requires the portable device to draw limited current
(100mA/500mA in USB 2.0, and 150mA/900mA in USB 3.0). If the portable device is attached to a charging port,
it is allowed to draw up to 1.5A

if you want the info on your own charge stats just type dmesg in a shell prompt.
data to look for is like this:

Code:

<7>[224884.880706] bq2419x_is_vbat_in_range: vbat = 4135000
<7>[224884.881378] bq24196 1-006b: bqSetSYSMIN: 3200
<7>[224884.882019] bq24196 1-006b: adj_fast_ichg_lim: 2036, 240, 2036
<6>[224904.594329] android_usb gadget: high speed config #1: android
<7>[224904.594818] bq24196 1-006b: USB_EVENT_ENUMERATED
<6>[224904.595306] android_work: sent uevent USB_STATE=CONFIGURED
<7>[224904.600708] bq24196 1-006b: INTERRUPT 08=6c, 09=0
<7>[224904.600952] bq24196 1-006b: S: Power Good
<7>[224904.601165] bq24196 1-006b: S: CHARGE STATE = 2 (FAST CHARGING)
<7>[224904.601531] bq24196 1-006b: S: VBUS STATE = 1 (USB host)
<7>[224904.601745] bq24196 1-006b: S: Dynamic Power Management enabled

Sherip · Jun 27, 2014

I have had a few close calls with my battery. It does not charge if verygreen's or other app that permits the Nook to host other USB devices is active, and in most cases I had accidentally activated it. Since it then refuses to charge when connected to power, its in greater danger of completely depleting. Easily fixed as long as the unit is still operating, but no obvious clue when that's the problem.

Deleted member 2092952 · Jun 28, 2014

Also, when you put the power plug in real slow at the nook port, even when the battery is not 100%, it will turn green as if full charged and will no longer show that its charging. Possibly, could be initiated in another way I would think.

Tzul · Jun 28, 2014

modelworks said:
If you connect the nook to a low power pc port you will only be able to run the charging for 45 minutes before the charger IC stops. To start it again you have to unplug and re-plug the USB cable. The charge current for a 500ma usb port is about 440ma.

Interesting about the "low power" port. But I haven't seen one yet. Nowadays, many USB2 ports provide up to 1000 mA without negotiation. Originally, the USB specification required that devices connect in a low-power mode (100 mA maximum) and communicate their current requirements to the host, which then permits the device to switch into high-power mode. But the USB Battery Charging Specification changed that. In recent years I've tested several PC mainboards, and an Xbox 360, all of them provide around 1000 mA on USB2 ports without negotiation.
But the Nook HD+ won't make use of that and limit itself to the 440 mA you mentioned. Why? Because it uses the two data lines (D+ and D-) of the USB connection to detect dedicated USB chargers. If the data lines are shorted, the Nook assumes it's connected to a dedicated USB charger and it will draw up to 2000 mA (about 1880 mA in my measurements). If the data lines aren't shorted, it'll limit to 440 mA no matter if the USB power source could provide more.

modelworks said:
The device fast charges at 1.5A using the charger and charges at 4.208V to the battery.

From where do you get the 1.5 A? Your own dmesg output says "adj_fast_ichg_lim: 2036, 240, 2036", and as I said, mine charges with around 1.8 A.

Also, the line in the dmesg output that gives away the charging speed isn't "CHARGE STATE". It always reads "= 2 (FAST CHARGING)" when an external power source is connected.
The line "DCP detected" is the real confirmation (DCP = dedicated charging port), and apparently also "VBUS STATE".
"VBUS STATE = 1 (USB host)" means the data lines are NOT shorted => max. current intake is 440 mA
"VBUS STATE = 2 (Adapter port)" means the data lines ARE shorted => max current intake is ~2 A.

Furthermore, keep in mind that power from the external source is prioritized to first supply the system, and then the battery. That is, the battery is charged with the "leftovers". Therefore, if you connect the Nook to a source from which it'll only draw the mentioned 440 mA, and you're continuing to use the tablet, then it can happen that the battery won't be charged, or even will be discharged! If you perform some CPU/GPU intensive tasks on the tablet, its power consumption can easily exceed 440 mA, meaning the tablet will use the external source in combination with the battery to satisfy its hunger.

TL;DR:

Nooks will only fast charge on dedicated charging ports, which are recognized by having their data pins shorted. That's more or less standard nowadays for generic USB chargers (USB Battery Charging Specification). However, some chargers still don't meet this requirement, and Apple has their own incompatible standard, naturally.
Don't use your tablet if you want to charge it from a low-power source (i.e. USB data connection on the Nook), because depending on the workload, the battery will be charged very slowly or will actually be discharged.

modelworks · Jul 2, 2014

Tzul said:
Interesting about the "low power" port. But I haven't seen one yet.
Nowadays, many USB2 ports provide up to 1000 mA without negotiation. Originally, the USB specification required that devices connect in a low-power mode (100 mA maximum) and communicate their current requirements to the host, which then permits the device to switch into high-power mode. But the USB Battery Charging Specification changed that. In recent years I've tested several PC mainboards, and an Xbox 360, all of them provide around 1000 mA on USB2 ports without negotiation.

Read page 19 of the document.

From where do you get the 1.5 A? Your own dmesg output says "adj_fast_ichg_lim: 2036, 240, 2036", and as I said, mine charges with around 1.8 A.

I just posted that for people to know the general section not as a specific example.
Page 28 of the document explains why the log may read 2036 but actually be 1.5A

Tzul · Jul 3, 2014

modelworks said:
Read page 19 of the document.

Have you read it? It's talking about the USB standard there rather than the bq24196. "If the portable device is attached to a charging port, it is allowed to draw up to 1.5A". That's straight from the USB standard, as the common USB2 connectors are rated for up to 1.5 A. However, B&N have engineered their own proprietary cable and connector and provide a 2 A capable power supply, so that limit doesn't apply.
Also, see Table 2 on the same page. The automatic input current limits are 100 mA, 500 mA, and 3 A. Not 1.5 A.

modelworks said:
I just posted that for people to know the general section not as a specific example.
Page 28 of the document explains why the log may read 2036 but actually be 1.5A

It would be interesting to open a Nook and take a look what resistor value they used for that safety setting, if they used one at all. As I said before, I've measured currents up to 1.88 A on my Nook HD+ from the official charger, so I seriously doubt they hardwired it to 1.5 A max (and wasted money by providing a 2 A power supply when a 1.5 A one would suffice).

PS: Do you know the power supply dir in the Linux SysFS? Check out /sys/class/power_supply/ and its subfolders (one for each power source). There you can find various virtual files, part of which contain monitoring values straight from the hardware, as read by the driver.
In /sys/class/power_supply/bq27500-0/current_now (or in the file "uevent" which contains a summary of the individual values) you can read the battery charge/discharge current, as measured by the PMU chip. I saw values above 1.7 A there last time I charged and checked. And in order to check, I had to wake up the tablet from standby, of course, meaning that some of the power was spent on running the system rather than charging the battery... All of this paints a pretty clear picture: the device really does fast charge at about 2 A (if you use a suitable power supply and if you let the tablet sleep while charging). Not 1.5 A.

invinciblemo · Aug 19, 2014

modelworks said:
The device fast charges at 1.5A using the charger and charges at 4.208V to the battery. The bad battery setting is for 1.8V, so if your device battery falls to that level it will not charge because the chip assumes a failed battery. I see this a lot in tablets. Someone stops using the tablet when the charge is 10% or less and then 2 weeks later picks up the tablet and it appears dead. The battery cells have discharged below the limit and now will not charge. The device will consume power even if you power off the device because the charging controller is on 24/7 regardless of any mode except shipping mode which we do not have access to . Fix for dead battery is remove the battery from the tablet, charge on external charger , replace.

Just wondering how do you charge the battery externally?

Tzul · Aug 20, 2014

invinciblemo said:
Just wondering how do you charge the battery externally?

By opening the tablet, removing the battery, and connecting it to a dedicated Li-ion charger, of course. Something like this - but that's just an example, that model would not work. You'd probably have to do some soldering for the connector, too.

invinciblemo · Aug 21, 2014

Tzul said:
By opening the tablet, removing the battery, and connecting it to a dedicated Li-ion charger, of course. Something like this - but that's just an example, that model would not work. You'd probably have to do some soldering for the connector, too.

I tried finding online to see if anyone had tried charging the battery externally.
It seems that dormouse1, from the second post in this thread http://4pda.to/forum/index.php?showtopic=431820&st=1900, had tried charging it using Imax B6.
I'm going to try charging my battery using his setup and see if it works.

invinciblemo · Sep 5, 2014

To anyone that is interested in charging their battery externally, i think a TP4056 a Lipo Battery Charging Board works.
I had managed to charge my battery, and it shows that it has a discharge voltage of 4V, but I am not sure if it is correct.
When my charged battery is connected to my tablet, the battery discharged and my tablet became hotter.
However, my tablet failed to boot.

So its either that my tablet is bricked, or the charger did not charge my battery properly.
I would like to ask does anyone knows, what is the voltage of a fully charged battery?

Tzul · Sep 7, 2014

invinciblemo said:
I would like to ask does anyone knows, what is the voltage of a fully charged battery?

Lithium-ion cells are typically charged to 4.20V. The Nook HD+ uses that value, too. Nominal voltage is 3.7V. I forgot the cut-off voltage that the HD+ uses to decide that the battery is empty, but I think it was 3.4V or 3.5V.

modelworks · Sep 10, 2014

Tzul said:
Lithium-ion cells are typically charged to 4.20V. The Nook HD+ uses that value, too. Nominal voltage is 3.7V. I forgot the cut-off voltage that the HD+ uses to decide that the battery is empty, but I think it was 3.4V or 3.5V.

To add to that, make sure you put a load on the battery if you are measuring the voltage of the battery disconnected.
Something like a single 330 ohm resistor would be good.

Bad lithium batteries sometimes will appear charged until you place the load on it then it falls to 2 or lower volts.
Another quick check is to make sure the battery casing is completely flat, if the battery has bulges of more than a few millimeters the battery is about to fail and should be discarded immediately. Another trick you can use is smell the battery, I know sounds weird , but failing lithium batteries have a very unique odor , almost sweet, reminds me of the smell of bananas.

harrym1byt · Apr 11, 2015

HTML:

Tzul said:
[*]Nooks will only fast charge on dedicated charging ports, which are recognized by having their data pins shorted. That's more or less standard nowadays for generic USB chargers (USB Battery Charging Specification). However, some chargers still don't meet this requirement, and Apple has their own incompatible standard, naturally.
[*]Don't use your tablet if you want to charge it from a low-power source (i.e. USB data connection on the Nook), because depending on the workload, the battery will be charged very slowly or will actually be discharged.

I have an HD+, which I have not been able to get to charge on a 3amp, 2amp or even a 1amp wallwart, but it does charge via its Nook wallwart. Does the above mean that were I to 'repurpose' a short USB extension and simply short the D- and D+ (clear of the +ve and ground) together in the USB lead, that I should then find it will charge via that lead? Please?

Tzul · Jun 1, 2015

harrym1byt said:
Does the above mean that were I to 'repurpose' a short USB extension and simply short the D- and D+ (clear of the +ve and ground) together in the USB lead, that I should then find it will charge via that lead? Please?

Sorry for the late response.
Yes, that is correct, I have built such a cable myself and it does work.

SkirraV · Jun 5, 2015

Battery Issues

I have a Nook HD and it immediately dies as soon as it is unplugged, however there is no apparent damage to the battery, no bulges, leaks, or smells. After I plug it in and it reboots it goes from 10-20% charge to 100% charge within minutes. Is there a way other than removing the battery and charging it externally (outiside of my mechanical ability) to reset the battery to determine if it is a software issue or an issue with the battery itself. Currently running CM 10.2.1 stable.

aromring@gmail.com · May 27, 2017

Charging problem - solved

I had similar symptoms with my Nook HD+ : when plugged into charger the indicator light turned green, then orange, but only for a second, then went dark. When left on charger for many hours, the indicator would start blinking red. Nothing worked, until I read technical details in this thread.

The bottom line: if the battery voltage drops below 1.8 V, the stupid control chip assumes the battery is "bad" and refuses to pass the charging current; consistent with the observed symptoms. This gave me an idea on how to fix this:

Step 1: Open the Nook by prying the front panel to get access to mounting screws, then unscrew the back panel.
Step 2: Locate the battery cable composed of three red, three black, one blue, and one yellow wires.
Step 3: Locate the gold test points on circuit board _under_ the wires: "VBAT" under the red wires, "BAT-" under the black wires.
Step 4: You have to trick the control chip into "thinking" that the battery is still "good". For this, you'll need an external voltage source. I used my homemade adjustable DC power supply setting it to 2.5 V. I guess, any voltage between 1.8 - 3.7 should work.
Step 5: Connect the _positive_ lead from the external power source to the "VBAT" test point, connect _negative_ (or ground) lead to the "BAT-" test point.
Step 6: Plug your Nook into charger and wait a few seconds: the indicator light will now stay solid orange meaning the charging current is passing through. Yay! You should disconnect the external DC source; it's no longer needed.

bubba198 · Dec 28, 2018

I can confirm that applying voltage to the test points does absolutely nothing. In examining the PCB the test points mirror the positive and negative connections of payload from the battery.

That is NOT how the charging chip works. There are 2 control lines tied internally to the LiPo battery which are NOT payload lines. That is what we need to play with but there's no information on how those control lines are tied into the cell's internal chemistry or what the expected levels might be for the chip to "think" that the battery is good. It could even be an interface, i2c or who knows

flyboynm · Jan 26, 2019

I guess I am in trouble then...

I found my Nook HD+ back after not having used it in 3 years. Battery is dead as a door nail. When I plugged it in though, it showed the battery symbol for a dead battery and then the amber light next to the cable connector lit up and is still lit 30 minutes later. I am going to let it charge overnight and hope that it works again. If not, I don't think I will bother with pulling the battery, etc.

Technical details about nook HD+ charging

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