Windows phone lost another to Siri

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scoobysnacks

Senior Member
Jul 10, 2011
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I've used both as well, I just traded my android phone for this one..

You just don't want to admit anything can be as good as your precious iPhone, though it easily is.

Congrats on being the most pretentious person on these forums!

Bravo
 

N8ter

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2010
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I don't own an iPhone. I own an iTouch, but with about 10 people constantly using iPhones and being able to use it a lot due to that I have a pretty good feel for Siri's capabilities. My sister and niece also have iPhones.

I have a Vibrant, HD7, and iTouch 4.

Nice ASSumption, though!

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 PM ----------

BTW, since you're clueless about what Glympse does, I'll explain it quickly.

It's an app that allows you to allow someone to track you, on your demand. It gives them ETA and optionally can tell them what speed you're traveling at. Instead of texting them "I'm on my way." you can just Glympse them. Instead of calling them in the car, they can just view your Glympse and see where you are. You can send Glympses by SMS and email, and they don't even need the app to view it, they can even view it on a desktop PC, Tablet, or Laptop.

You share it for the amount of time you tell the app, can cancel it at any time, and can set it to automatically cancel when you arrive at your destination (or prompt you for an action). It's very useful, especially since it doesn't even require an account creation, or any of your personal information...

The Microsoft "We're In" app that was touted as cool and useful on this very forum is a bit of a knock off of Glympse.

I find it very very useful. I just moved to a new city and I've already had someone call my cell to tell me I was going the wrong way because they seen it on Glympse.
 
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JVH3

Retired Recognized Developer
Nov 24, 2008
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Well, it appears that I need to retract my earlier "bravo"...


It does matter if you single out one platform as being bad in comparison to another, when both are equally "bad". That smacks of hypocrisy.

As for the rest of your post, it comes across as dismissive and condescending. You cite your own needs and wants as proof of what is or is not useful for the platform as a whole. For example, you don't want or need Glympse? That's fine. Does that mean that there is no "practical use of the app" for other users? Not even close to the truth.

I don't recall singling out any one platform as bad with regard to the cost for additional space. If it were $100 more for an LG Quantum with 32 GB, I would not have paid it. If it were the cost of a 32 GB SD card, I might consider. A class 10 32 GB SD card that does 20 MB/sec is about $40 at Best Buy right now. And that is not a Black Friday sale.

JVH3 said:
The 16 GB version has an estimated replacement cost of $599 according to the acknowledgment letter that I had to sign with my company. Not sure what they would say it would be for 32 or 64. Based on the phone with new contract prices, I would think it would be $699 and $799. In any case, I don't need more than 16GB. 32 would be nice, since then I could have every song I own on it. But, I don't need every song all the time. I am capable of a little planning. Kind of crazy to charge $100 for 16 more GB or $200 for 48 more GB

I didn't say, "Kind of crazy for Apple to charge ..."

Regarding Glympse.

I was honestly asking for a practical use of Glypse. I played with it before on Windows Mobile 6.5. I thought it was kind of neat. Hell, back then, after getting it from the marketplace, I even made a cab to install it, so I could easily reapply it after flashing new ROMs. But I never used the app for any real purpose.

With Maps on Windows Phone 7, you can press on the map and share your location. No app necessary.

I can acknowledge that there may be a practical reason to constantly make your location known to people. If that is a deal breaker, then Windows Phone 7 is not for you. Personally, I think it falls in the category of most things on the phones. Fun to play with.

Any condescention in my post that you replied to can be attributed to who I was replying to. I know you read his posts. So I know you know that the majority of his posts are more condescending. Just read his last post in this thread. You seem very forgiving of his attitude in the forum though.

N8ter said:
BTW, since you're clueless about what Glympse does, I'll explain it quickly.

Mixed in his condescention, there was a practical use. Although it is replacing 1 illegal activity with another. Unless of course the user is the passenger. I suppose you could send your glympse before you are on the road. Usually, for arrivals, I just call when Tom Tom says I am about 10 minutes away. GPS should keep you from going the wrong way.

I actually do like the iPhone 4GS. It is a well made phone. It has a consistent user interface. The apps do work well. They are priced cheaper. But I have not found anything on it that I can now do and want to do that I could not do with my Quantum.
 

JVH3

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Nov 24, 2008
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Applications cannot do that on WP7 because WP7 does not allow GPS and background services to run that way. Background tasks only run at max twice an hour and even they get shut down if they run too long, for example.

Knowing a little about how the platform works under the hood would really help you understand these issues.

No app on WP7 can do what Glympse needs to do to run on parity with the Android application, no matter how great the developers are. They clearly state the reason in their Marketplace listing:



Which means while the person sitting on the train across from me is playing Angry Birds on his iOS or Android device while Glympsing in the background, I have to sit there with my thumb up my but if I'm carrying just my HD7 because the app will cease to function if it's backgrounded... So much for multi-tasking...

Glypse for iPhone:

...

Well I guess that is a personal choice of where to put your thumb.

But seriously.

Instead of a background process, I am thinking it could be solved with scheduled updates.

I am hoping that additional classes can be created from the ScheduledNotification class, which Alarm and Reminder both inherit from. They both provide different User Interfaces, so I would think a different one with no user interface could be written. This would allow Glympse or any other app to schedule a series of events for when this would be updated.

Hopefully Microsofts implementation of the ScheduledNotification class is not what is responsible for the launching of the user interface. And in the new derived class, code could be added to do the work, instead of launching the user interface.

I have noticed that apps, such as SuperTimer which just use the Alarm class do not cause other apps, such as Angry Birds to quit. But it isn't doing any deep linking into the apps, like the Reminder class can do. It would be annoying if other apps would be interrupted every minute or even 5 minutes.

I do think that Microsoft should give the option to let the user pick apps to run in the background. Or at the very least allow the execution frequency for Background processes to configurable on a per application basis. At the very least allow this to be settable for a period of time.

I can acknowledge that some background processing should be allowed and the frequency should be configurable.
 

FiyaFleye

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2008
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I just don't understand N8ter, I really don't, you'd figure that somebody who attempts to prove that he has so much going for him would quit posting the same crap in every thread.
 
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N8ter

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Sep 1, 2010
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I don't recall singling out any one platform as bad with regard to the cost for additional space. If it were $100 more for an LG Quantum with 32 GB, I would not have paid it. If it were the cost of a 32 GB SD card, I might consider. A class 10 32 GB SD card that does 20 MB/sec is about $40 at Best Buy right now. And that is not a Black Friday sale.



I didn't say, "Kind of crazy for Apple to charge ..."

Regarding Glympse.

I was honestly asking for a practical use of Glypse. I played with it before on Windows Mobile 6.5. I thought it was kind of neat. Hell, back then, after getting it from the marketplace, I even made a cab to install it, so I could easily reapply it after flashing new ROMs. But I never used the app for any real purpose.

With Maps on Windows Phone 7, you can press on the map and share your location. No app necessary.

I can acknowledge that there may be a practical reason to constantly make your location known to people. If that is a deal breaker, then Windows Phone 7 is not for you. Personally, I think it falls in the category of most things on the phones. Fun to play with.

Any condescention in my post that you replied to can be attributed to who I was replying to. I know you read his posts. So I know you know that the majority of his posts are more condescending. Just read his last post in this thread. You seem very forgiving of his attitude in the forum though.



Mixed in his condescention, there was a practical use. Although it is replacing 1 illegal activity with another. Unless of course the user is the passenger. I suppose you could send your glympse before you are on the road. Usually, for arrivals, I just call when Tom Tom says I am about 10 minutes away. GPS should keep you from going the wrong way.

I actually do like the iPhone 4GS. It is a well made phone. It has a consistent user interface. The apps do work well. They are priced cheaper. But I have not found anything on it that I can now do and want to do that I could not do with my Quantum.

That's not comparison. Glympse shares your location in real time. It's not the same as sending your location. You can do that in IM applications like ChatOn and BeeJive. The benefit of Glympse is that it does it in real time and doesn't require the user to have it installed.

If I send someone my location that tells them nothing about what time I'm going to be, which route I'm taking, and things like that.

There is no illegal activity. You're sending them the Glympse and thus concenting to the tracking of your location by the user at the other end. Also, you don't use it while you're in the car. You send the Glympse before you start driving, and it tracks you in the car while your phone is in a holster or something.

With Glympse there's on need to call. Why are you still trying to be argumentative about this? Lol.

FiyaFleye, I think I can say the same about you. Keep reporting, buddy :)

---------- Post added at 10:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------

Well I guess that is a personal choice of where to put your thumb.

But seriously.

Instead of a background process, I am thinking it could be solved with scheduled updates.

I am hoping that additional classes can be created from the ScheduledNotification class, which Alarm and Reminder both inherit from. They both provide different User Interfaces, so I would think a different one with no user interface could be written. This would allow Glympse or any other app to schedule a series of events for when this would be updated.

Hopefully Microsofts implementation of the ScheduledNotification class is not what is responsible for the launching of the user interface. And in the new derived class, code could be added to do the work, instead of launching the user interface.

I have noticed that apps, such as SuperTimer which just use the Alarm class do not cause other apps, such as Angry Birds to quit. But it isn't doing any deep linking into the apps, like the Reminder class can do. It would be annoying if other apps would be interrupted every minute or even 5 minutes.

I do think that Microsoft should give the option to let the user pick apps to run in the background. Or at the very least allow the execution frequency for Background processes to configurable on a per application basis. At the very least allow this to be settable for a period of time.

I can acknowledge that some background processing should be allowed and the frequency should be configurable.

Background tasks can only run once per 30 minutes. If I'm 15 minutes away and Glympse someone, with your scenario they'll never get an update. It defeats the purpose. They just need to allow apps to run as a service in the background and utilize GPS data, like Apple does in a similar OS without full multi-tasking...
 
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JVH3

Retired Recognized Developer
Nov 24, 2008
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That's not comparison. Glympse shares your location in real time. It's not the same as sending your location. You can do that in IM applications like ChatOn and BeeJive. The benefit of Glympse is that it does it in real time and doesn't require the user to have it installed.

If I send someone my location that tells them nothing about what time I'm going to be, which route I'm taking, and things like that.

There is no illegal activity. You're sending them the Glympse and thus concenting to the tracking of your location by the user at the other end. Also, you don't use it while you're in the car. You send the Glympse before you start driving, and it tracks you in the car while your phone is in a holster or something.

With Glympse there's on need to call. Why are you still trying to be argumentative about this? Lol.

FiyaFleye, I think I can say the same about you. Keep reporting, buddy :)

---------- Post added at 10:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------



Background tasks can only run once per 30 minutes. If I'm 15 minutes away and Glympse someone, with your scenario they'll never get an update. It defeats the purpose. They just need to allow apps to run as a service in the background and utilize GPS data, like Apple does in a similar OS without full multi-tasking...

Apparently you didn't read, but only responded.

The illegal activity would be texting or sending it while driving. In my post I said you could send it before driving. I also mentioned about it continuously tracking.

Background Tasks run every 30 minutes. That is true. But using the ScheduledNotification class allows you to run something at any scheduled time. So, instead of needing the process to exist and run continuously for 30 minutes, it could be schedule it to start in 5 minutes, do work, end, then 5 minutes later start, do work, end, etc.

It's a way to get around the limitation. Microsoft provides 2 classes that derive from it. Alarm and Reminder. Neither will work because they both have a user interface that launches. But if a new class was created that derived from ScheduledNotification that did not have a UI, developers might be able to do background processing at any scheduled time that we want.

That was in my last post, so it will probably go right over your head in this post as well.

Just so we're clear. Any dev can create a class that derives from ScheduledNotification. Otherwise, neither the Alarm or Reminder class could exist.

I am fine with them being less restrictive and I'll even go as far as saying that Apple handles this better. But, in the mean time there are options for the devs of Glympse to investigate. Even the Reminder class could be used right now to get them into the app with deep linking. The only problem is that it would interupt the current foreground app, so you would not want it to update too frequently.
 
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RoboDad

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Mar 6, 2008
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I don't recall singling out any one platform as bad with regard to the cost for additional space. If it were $100 more for an LG Quantum with 32 GB, I would not have paid it.



I didn't say, "Kind of crazy for Apple to charge ..."
My bad. I got the impression from one of your exchanges with N8ter that you had singled them out in that way.


Any condescention in my post that you replied to can be attributed to who I was replying to. I know you read his posts. So I know you know that the majority of his posts are more condescending. Just read his last post in this thread. You seem very forgiving of his attitude in the forum though.
No, I am not more forgiving of him. He is what he is. But I suppose I do expect a higher level of professionalism from a recognized developer (and one who clearly has a sound working knowledge of WP APIs and class definitions). Responding in kind to another's condescension may offer personal satisfaction, but it diminishes your own position in a debate.

Mixed in his condescention, there was a practical use. Although it is replacing 1 illegal activity with another. Unless of course the user is the passenger. I suppose you could send your glympse before you are on the road. Usually, for arrivals, I just call when Tom Tom says I am about 10 minutes away. GPS should keep you from going the wrong way.
I freely admit that I was mostly clueless about Glympse's capabilities on the iPhone until reading this thread. Did I feel condescended to on that point? Not really. I actually felt informed.

But, as to your argument of replacing one illegal activity with another, that would only be the case if one were forced to use the SMS or email functions of Glympse, which are clearly not it's primary intended purpose. Starting a background task that automatically provides updates requires no illegality at all, whereas calling from your phone (while driving) does in many locations.

I actually do like the iPhone 4GS. It is a well made phone. It has a consistent user interface. The apps do work well. They are priced cheaper. But I have not found anything on it that I can now do and want to do that I could not do with my Quantum.
And that is perfectly fine. But at the same time, it would only make sense to acknowledge that for some (and probably many) people, there will be circumstances that make the iPhone a much better fit, at least right now.
 

JVH3

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Nov 24, 2008
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...
And that is perfectly fine. But at the same time, it would only make sense to acknowledge that for some (and probably many) people, there will be circumstances that make the iPhone a much better fit, at least right now.

For many, the iPhone is a better choice today. And for many Windows Phone 7 is a better choice.

And, I was serious when I said that for users that find Glypse to be important, then Windows Phone 7 is not the right choice.

Just like I can do everything that I want to on Windows Phone 7, I can also do everything that I want to with my iPhone.

By that, I am not saying either will be true for all users or all scenerios.

In any case, I would not jump ship from Windows Phone 7 just to get an iPhone 4S, if all my needs were being met by Windows Phone 7. Not enough of a benefit.

I had a Tilt 2 and I was planning to go with Android as my next phone.
I only have an LG Quantum because insurance gave that to me when my Tilt 2 stopped working.
I only have an iPhone because work bought them for us.

I was impressed with the Quantum. The iPhone is pretty much what I expected.

As it is both phones have pleasantly surprised me.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both.
 
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ScottSUmmers

Senior Member
Apr 2, 2011
178
24
I just don't understand N8ter, I really don't, you'd figure that somebody who attempts to prove that he has so much going for him would quit posting the same crap in every thread.

Haha are you kidding, that's exactly the type of person that would post! You just gotta take it in stride and laugh at him like me. I personally always find it hilarious when he gets in a huff and things unravel into a pissing contest. This new "relaxed" approach of his makes for a decent change on things, but still the same N8ter. :D

As for the OP, only time will tell to see what MS can offer users to combat Siri. I'm curious to know how the development of Tell Me is going, especially the promo vid they made showing their hopes for the tech.

Then again it may not necessarily have to be a head to head competition in terms of pure voice capabilities. Maybe making OS more "aware" of a user's habits maybe enough to hold the line.
 

DavidinCT

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2006
1,607
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Someplace in CT
I bet 99% people here used to love playing around with Voice Features when it first came out, but then they find themselves hardly use it. I know i did.

I know where your going but, I use the voice features of texting every day, in the car, in my office.

I've played with the rest of the voice features, meh, I never use them.

A Siri type app that will enter calander entries would interest me tho...I think I would use it.
 

ohgood

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2009
1,611
93
Birmingham
Then again it may not necessarily have to be a head to head competition in terms of pure voice capabilities. Maybe making OS more "aware" of a user's habits maybe enough to hold the line.

necessary for head-to-head in what ways ? to sell phones, or 'me too' match of capabilities ?

there is no reason why microsoft couldn't license Siri tech from apple and just 'me too', but it would be considered lame, and not so innovative. sure, apple bought the tech, but they highlighted it in a way that made it interesting and useful.
 

FiyaFleye

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2008
1,167
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necessary for head-to-head in what ways ? to sell phones, or 'me too' match of capabilities ?

there is no reason why microsoft couldn't license Siri tech from apple and just 'me too', but it would be considered lame, and not so innovative. sure, apple bought the tech, but they highlighted it in a way that made it interesting and useful.

I would still rather them continue to develop and progress "TellMe" and integrate their voice products across devices. Siri currently doesn't control other Apple products, but if Microsoft, in the form of the upcoming Xbox companion, would allow you to say "Xbox on" and have it behave as a Kinect substitute, I would enjoy it much more. That's just me. Those are the type of enhancements I would prefer, not "Siri, do I need an umbrella today?"
 

ScottSUmmers

Senior Member
Apr 2, 2011
178
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necessary for head-to-head in what ways ? to sell phones, or 'me too' match of capabilities ?

I was speaking more towards the granularity of functionality with voice recognition, e.g. MS possibly may not have to have the voice app respond to "Do I need an umbrella tomorrow?" to be competitive.

Sure, the implementation isn't as "neat" but if the end functionality is on par or there's other functionality [see post that you quoted me from] that supplements for the lack of such design then who knows it could still work out.

Of course, people generally like all that glitter and glam huh?
 
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ROCOAFZ

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2007
667
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In WP7 for weather just say "Weather , what city, what state" It will bring up the weather, showing cloudy, rain whatever. Who needs to ask it for an umbrella, if it says raining i take one lol.


If you want to know how much wood can a wood chuck chuck or any other of the funny iphone lookups say the same in wp7 with "find" blah blah blah. they both access wolf ram alpha although tell me also accesses bing.

Difference being it doesn't read it out loud to you. I made a few iphone users at work mad when i showed them wp7 could do the same without saying it out loud back to me.

Also if you want to map directions in WP7 with voice, press voice button, say address (just the address, no map, navigate ect) above web results you will see a map button. Press it and you can then press directions or local scout (for things in that area).
 

goldenpipes

Senior Member
Dec 29, 2009
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The title has nothing to do with the actual thread as from the story the guy was wowed by an iPhone 3G so that has nothing to do with Siri.
This is the real issue... Even without Siri people would still go and buy the iPhone 4S, that has nothing to do with voice command.
Windows Phone is great, the UI is smooth, it rarely crashes (well except on HTC phones it seems) and integrates social quite well. However for most people, once the first 2-3 weeks are gone the novelty comes from apps and games and these are not there on WP. If you need a particular app for your phone, you will definitely find it on iOS and will probably find it on Android. It's very unlikely you will find it on WP unless it's a very popular app and even then there's no guarantee. A typical conversation between a WP an a android/iPhone user goes like this:
- Let me call you, do you have skype?
- It's not available yet (no one cares if it's "coming")
- How about Tango?
- Not there either but I have WhatsApp
- Alright, fine
- Do you have "X" app? It's pretty great
- Nope
- How about "X" game? It will blow you away
- Neither but I do have Xbox Live on my phone
- Cool, I have an Xbox 360, what games do you get on the phone?
- (better not to mention)

Rince and repeat the last bit with facebook and Zune. It's nice to have if you're into these things but it's not groundbreaking.
Most people get their phone on a 2 years contract, they don't want a phone that's just nice and promises more apps and games, they can just get that phone in 2 years time!
I was definitely going to recommend WP to my friends after Mango but the truth is there hasn't been an app or game worth downloading in 2 or 3 months so once the novelty wears off they would be pretty bored. My girlfriend has been playing 3 different Angry Birds games on her Nexus S lately and she got them all for free. She has dozens of apps that don't exist on WP so I can't possibly push her towards the platform. Same goes for my gamer friends who have tons of great games on their iPhone. Windows Phone could have competed on price but now you can get an iPhone 3GS for free or an iPhone 4 for 99$ so you would need seriously good arguments.
So all in all the issue isn't just Siri impressing people, it's also Microsoft not having a "Siri feature", i.e. a feature that makes you go "I want that phone".

As far as the lack of great APPs for WP7 i completely agree... What there needs to be is an APP company goes out and ports the Android and iPhone apps to wp7... not without permission of course but think about how much money Developers could save to get their apps out there.

Hire the developer to port the APP for .01c each time that app is purchased a lot cheaper than hiring someone onto what ever company you are payroll and all that crap.

just thinking out loud here.
 

mariuschi

Member
Apr 5, 2011
11
0
I think that SIRI is seriously cool... and it's at least 2-3 years ahead of microsoft and android. I am a wp user... but I would buy the new iphone only for siri and that realy impresive camera...
 

Vintage144

Guest
Jan 1, 1970
32
127
siri wins, but it is just as annoying as tell me is , it needs to have a toggle switch to that IF you actually want this POS feature you can have it and if you dont want this POS annoying feature you dont have to have , unfortunately both Microsoft and Apple have decided whats best for the people buying there phones is this trash is always on! Registry hack please so I can eliminate this useless feature!
 

PG2G

Senior Member
Nov 7, 2010
628
62
siri wins, but it is just as annoying as tell me is , it needs to have a toggle switch to that IF you actually want this POS feature you can have it and if you dont want this POS annoying feature you dont have to have , unfortunately both Microsoft and Apple have decided whats best for the people buying there phones is this trash is always on! Registry hack please so I can eliminate this useless feature!

You have to manually activate it...
 

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    Dude, I'm much more a man than you'll ever be. You'd only need to take a look at my model wife. Beautiful women like that don't marry "boys".

    And since you can't add anything valid to the argument, I would call you a loser.

    LOL. I wonder if your wife saw this post if she would still consider being married to you. Come on man, are you 12? You effectively just reduced the women in your life to a nice, shiny object of desire...an iWife.
    1
    Ok well a guy I work with has a Samsung Focus, pretty decent device. BTW this is the only person I know that has a windows phone. ATT gave him the Focus free because of him having problems with his previous dumb phone. That was nice of ATT.

    So recently this guy told me that the Focus has been giving him problems of late and he is hating it, like when he opens the camera and press the camera button the phone restarts.

    So another guy I work with sold him an iphone 3g as a backup. So he goes home and plays with a non activated iphone 3g and he is wowed by the 3g. He told me how he downloaded apps and the phone was so fun without it even being activated. Now he wants an iphone which is fine because WP didnt win him over. They lost a user by ATT even giving him the WP device for free.

    One thing I have noticed is that people tend to follow the fad. Siri is nice, which makes Tellme have a lot of work to do. I stand behind Windows Phone and will continue to. Everyone I know either are a Android or iphone user besides my cousin who is still a Symbian user but im slowly converting him over to Windows phone with the Nokia device.

    My question is, how will WP overcome the competition or will they ever. They have a long way to go keeping up with the competition and passing them up. What will Windows offer that will appeal to more users? How will Windows wow people?
    1
    Most people buy the iPhone for its status symbol... they want to be in line for 4 days, show off their brand new iPhone and use about 1% of its abilities.

    This is a myth; you're not "cool" or "special" if you own an IPhone, as everyone now owns them! It sells well because users are happy with the hardware and with IOS. Plus Apple adverts do make their phones look sexy and desirable (something Microsoft could learn from).

    I tried Siri in my natural language (Italian) and it couldn't even place a phone call or open an application. I didn't read any manual about it, but it tried saying phrases like "Call <Name>" or "text <someone>" or "open mail" or "search for <thing>". And it never worked!

    Siri doesn't support Italian, so of course it doesn't work! Only works with French, German and English (UK, US and Aus accents).

    Can Siri read text messages out to you, no? At least not without pushing a button. I think that's one of the most important things for voice because I tend to text and drive a lot. Yet the shiny brand new iphone 4s can't even do it, not to mention it's tiny 3.5" screen........!

    Have you even watching the Apple Siri promo vid? 5 seconds in Siri reads a text message to a jogger. At 1:00 minute mark Siri reads a text message to a blind girl with no button press:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNsrl86inpo
    1
    Dude, I'm much more a man than you'll ever be. You'd only need to take a look at my model wife. Beautiful women like that don't marry "boys".

    And since you can't add anything valid to the argument, I would call you a loser.
    Oh my God! Quote of the year (not a compliment).
    1
    Oh my God! Quote of the year (not a compliment).
    LOL, nice quote...however,I'm more interested on seeing how is a boy's model wife...