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[Beta] Win86emu: Running x86 apps on WinRT devices

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By mamaich, Retired Recognized Developer on 12th January 2013, 05:16 PM
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18th May 2013, 09:25 AM |#311  
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Its staggering how much you have done with this so far! Rock on!
 
 
18th May 2013, 12:29 PM |#312  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danthekilla

I have tried to play 3 versions of fallout 2 but all of them give the same error (failure initializing input devices) and also all the installers fail (even the good old games one. I have tried versions 0.05 and 0.06.

I am using the steam version with the unofficiall killian's patch and it works. I had a simillar error as you describe, the unofficial patch resolved it.
23rd May 2013, 07:02 AM |#313  
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Not a programmer of any sort, just trying techniques from other successful emulated x86 programs but running out of steam. I am trying
to run Sketchup 2013 on this tablet, but regardless of anything cant get a boot. Instructions for this are seemingly vacant, but if anyone
has any advice I'd appreciate it.
23rd May 2013, 03:19 PM |#314  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williams37

Not a programmer of any sort, just trying techniques from other successful emulated x86 programs but running out of steam. I am trying
to run Sketchup 2013 on this tablet, but regardless of anything cant get a boot. Instructions for this are seemingly vacant, but if anyone
has any advice I'd appreciate it.

Sketchup looks too CPU intensive to be suitable for x86 on ARM emulation, and since it's not open-source the option of an ARM port isn't a possibility either. Your best bet if you absolutely need to run Sketchup on a tablet would be to get an x86 tablet instead, Surface Pro would handle it fine, and you may even be able to run it on an Atom-based Windows 8 tablet - but it's unlikely there will ever be an option that would run the current x86 version of Sketchup on Windows RT.
23rd May 2013, 05:31 PM |#315  
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Sketchup just about runs on an atom netbook I have access too, albeit VERY poorly. maxes the CPU just panning the camera.
Same goes for my 2ghz celeron single core laptop, it doesnt quite max the CPU when panning the camera but it is hardly the most responsive application.

This emulator on the other hand can be guestimated at 100MHz/0.1Ghz. Sketchup will never work.
23rd May 2013, 11:04 PM |#316  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris3ds

Sketchup looks too CPU intensive to be suitable for x86 on ARM emulation, and since it's not open-source the option of an ARM port isn't a possibility either. Your best bet if you absolutely need to run Sketchup on a tablet would be to get an x86 tablet instead, Surface Pro would handle it fine, and you may even be able to run it on an Atom-based Windows 8 tablet - but it's unlikely there will ever be an option that would run the current x86 version of Sketchup on Windows RT.

Gotcha. Unfortunately I couldn't wait for the 32 bit tablet to come out and jumped on the surface. I love it regardless, but was curious about the potential of this emulator. Just hoping that app store explodes sometime soon, we need it.
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24th May 2013, 05:31 AM |#317  
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"32-bit" - that does not mean what you think it means.
Surface RT is 32-bit (check Computer Properties).
Surface Pro is 64-bit.

The important point is that Surface RT is ARM instruction set architecture (like a phone)
Surface Pro uses the 64-bit extensions to Intel's x86 architecture (sometimes called x64) like most PCs.
24th May 2013, 05:59 AM |#318  
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Here's a more in-depth explanation to 32-bit vs 64-bit.

32-bit has, well, 32 bits for the word length*1. 64-bit has 64 bits for it. The length of a word can be shared across processors (Ex. ARM and x86 both use 32-bit words, IA64 and x86-64 both use 64-bit words)

That's important because a word is the largest value that a CPU can use for things like memory access.

32-bit: 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111
64-bit: 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111

32-bit maximum value: 4,294,967,295d, or 0xFFFFFFFF, or 4 Gigabytes of allocation (This is why a 32-bit system can only allocate a maximum of 4GB of RAM)
64-bit maximum value: 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 or 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF, or 16 Exabytes of allocation *2

The bitness (32-bit Vs. 64-bit) does not determine the processor architecture. ARM, for example, is traditionally 32-bit (I believe that there is a 64-bit ARM, but I've never seen it in the wild), whereas most modern Intel/AMD CPUs are 64-bit, using the AMD64 instruction set.

THUMB2*3, which is what Windows RT uses, is an extension on the THUMB architecture. THUMB was originally 16-bit, and THUMB2 added 32-bit extensions to it. A lot of what THUMB2 does is only 16-bit (mov/movs for example move 16 bytes into the upper and lower halfwords for a certain register; the MOV32 instruction in MS's ARM assembler is simply a macro that does a mov then a movs), but it does have full support for 32-bit. Opcodes in THUMB2 mode are also a fixed length, unlike ARM.

1: PAE increases the length of a word to 36 bits on older CPUs that are still traditionally considered 32-bit processors.

2: 16 Exabytes of /theoretical/ storage, current hardware doesn't really allow for that. I also want to say that x86-64 has a limitation somewhere around 4TB, but I could be wrong.

3: THUMB/THUMB2 traditionally accompany the ARM instruction sets. The Tegra 3 supports both ARM and THUMB2 hardware wise, but due to THUMB2 being smaller (on account if it only having 16-bit opcodes) with a negligible speed hit MS chose to make WIndows RT only handle THUMB2. They also include what I believe to be a poorly written interrupt handler that always returns back in THUMB2 mode, so, while it's possible to run ARM code the CPU will switch back to THUMB2 at random, as far as your program is concerned.
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24th May 2013, 09:41 AM |#319  
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The reason you haven't seen 64 bit arm in the wild is because it doesn't exist in the wild. Its an optional extension to ARMv8 chips. Tegra 3, tegra 4, enoxys, Qualcomm snapdragon etc are all ARMv7. So far I think only AMD (of all people) have licensed to manufacture ARMv8 in early 2015.
24th May 2013, 06:56 PM |#320  
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Had a look but couldn't see it answered or asked yet but I don't suppose anyone has tried getting football manager or similar running?
24th May 2013, 08:25 PM |#321  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allymonty

Had a look but couldn't see it answered or asked yet but I don't suppose anyone has tried getting football manager or similar running?

so the fact that we are essentially emulating at 0.1ghz meant nothing to you. Football manager needs closer to 2ghz.
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