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Windows RT 8.1 anti-jailbreak differences

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By Myriachan, Senior Member on 27th June 2013, 10:04 AM
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11th October 2013, 02:45 AM |#51  
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Hehe.
Yesterday MS and Asus released several updates. Asus firmware update blocks the UEFI hole I was using to run unsigned apps on 8.1 - now my UEFI hangs instead of booting to EBL. The update is safe for ordinary users, it was just my own fault.
So now I have an unbootable device and heading to service
I assume that service would replace the motherboard (as I have the screen blinking issue, that can be fixed only with MB replacement), and after receiving the device back - I'm planning to boot from USB and scan disk for deleted files (or better to make a sector-by-sector disk image and work with it). Maybe I'll get some extra tools, like the ones here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=2477285
 
 
11th October 2013, 03:26 PM |#52  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domboy

You can say that again. I'm pretty irked (to put it nicely) that Microsoft deliberately broke the jailbreak in 8.1. I know they said they couldn't guarantee it would work in future versions, but I was hoping they'd just leave it alone, or better yet, give us an official way of unlocking the desktop. Looks like I'll be staying at 8.0.

Well it's still a security hole in their security - you had to expect that they'd patch is. The thing is, this is probably a big security concern - it does open the path to all those viruses and etc. we have on normal Windows, and with all the security measures MS put in place, I imagine that they REALLY don't want that to happen.

I know we'd all like RT to be as open as normal Windows, but you have to think of MS - they'll be the ones responsible when some moron comes running to them because he installed so much crap on his tablet it stopped working.
11th October 2013, 04:18 PM |#53  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverHedgehog

Well it's still a security hole in their security - you had to expect that they'd patch is. The thing is, this is probably a big security concern - it does open the path to all those viruses and etc. we have on normal Windows, and with all the security measures MS put in place, I imagine that they REALLY don't want that to happen.

Actually, they didn't patch the exploit used by the jailbreak if I understand correctly, just made it really hard to "exploit". Somebody with a more technical understanding please correct my if I'm wrong. Also, I believe the debugger was either removed or somehow made unusable by the jailbreak script, and I know they changed all the signing keys on the executables in 8.1 so you couldn't just pull something from 8.0 to exploit it. Sounds more like an active attempt to kill the jailbreak, instead of a routine patching of holes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverHedgehog

I know we'd all like RT to be as open as normal Windows, but you have to think of MS - they'll be the ones responsible when some moron comes running to them because he installed so much crap on his tablet it stopped working.

They have to deal with that on any x86 tablet... which is very shortly going to be the vast majority of Windows tablets/convertibles on the market, seeing as Surface 2 is the only RT device left...
11th October 2013, 04:21 PM |#54  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domboy

Actually, they didn't patch the exploit used by the jailbreak if I understand correctly, just made it really hard to "exploit". Somebody with a more technical understanding please correct my if I'm wrong. Also, I believe the debugger was either removed or somehow made unusable by the jailbreak script, and I know they changed all the signing keys on the executables in 8.1 so you couldn't just pull something from 8.0 to exploit it. Sounds more like an active attempt to kill the jailbreak, instead of a routine patching of holes.

Huh. Well that's really damn lame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by domboy

They have to deal with that on any x86 tablet... which is very shortly going to be the vast majority of Windows tablets/convertibles on the market, seeing as Surface 2 is the only RT device left...

Good point. Well, I have no idea then.
11th October 2013, 04:25 PM |#55  
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Originally Posted by SilverHedgehog

Huh. Well that's really damn lame.

Well said! Lame...
20th October 2013, 09:18 PM |#56  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domboy

Actually, they didn't patch the exploit used by the jailbreak if I understand correctly, just made it really hard to "exploit". Somebody with a more technical understanding please correct my if I'm wrong. Also, I believe the debugger was either removed or somehow made unusable by the jailbreak script, and I know they changed all the signing keys on the executables in 8.1 so you couldn't just pull something from 8.0 to exploit it. Sounds more like an active attempt to kill the jailbreak, instead of a routine patching of holes.



They have to deal with that on any x86 tablet... which is very shortly going to be the vast majority of Windows tablets/convertibles on the market, seeing as Surface 2 is the only RT device left...

You live in fantasy land if you think cheap atom tablets like Asus t100 or expensive tablets like surface pro will outsell surface 2. Surface Pro will never be mass market. If people didn't buy cheap clovertrail tablets last year that last more than 8hrs...almost no storage, low-res screens, cheap materials, no SSD...why would I want baytrail? ATOM CANNOT HANDLE FULL WINDOWS THAT'S WHY NETBOOKS FLOPPED YEARS AGO. MANY WOMEN, STUDENTS, SENIORS, AND OTHER DEMOS CHOSE THE LIMITED IPAD EVEN WITH ATOM PCs AVAILABLE. DID YOU READ THE NEW KINDLE FIRE PREVIEWS? ALMOST NOBODY CARES ABOUT HAVING FULL DESKTOP ON A MOBILE DEVICE. NOT ONCE DID I READ WHAT'S THE POINT OF THIS OR WHO'S THIS FOR WHEN I CAN BUY ATOM. IT'S ONLY SAID WHEN TALKING ABOUT RT! AND RT WAS ONE OF THE BEST SELLING WINDOWS TABLETS THIS PAST YEAR!

I don't want full windows running on atom processor as they exist today. Atom was and is garbage. It needs to run a limited and/or closed OS. If OEMs can/want to give me Haswell i5 at an affordable price maybe windows would do better on mobile. The way that the surface pro flies through most of the desktop is what everyone should experience when using windows. That's the standard performance consumers should see and come to expect no matter what tablet they pick up. You won't get that from Atom.
20th October 2013, 10:17 PM |#57  
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Originally Posted by KJ98653

You live in fantasy land if you think cheap atom tablets like Asus t100 or expensive tablets like surface pro will outsell surface 2. Surface Pro will never be mass market. If people didn't buy cheap clovertrail tablets last year that last more than 8hrs...almost no storage, low-res screens, cheap materials, no SSD...why would I want baytrail? ATOM CANNOT HANDLE FULL WINDOWS THAT'S WHY NETBOOKS FLOPPED YEARS AGO. MANY WOMEN, STUDENTS, SENIORS, AND OTHER DEMOS CHOSE THE LIMITED IPAD EVEN WITH ATOM PCs AVAILABLE. DID YOU READ THE NEW KINDLE FIRE PREVIEWS? ALMOST NOBODY CARES ABOUT HAVING FULL DESKTOP ON A MOBILE DEVICE. NOT ONCE DID I READ WHAT'S THE POINT OF THIS OR WHO'S THIS FOR WHEN I CAN BUY ATOM. IT'S ONLY SAID WHEN TALKING ABOUT RT! AND RT WAS ONE OF THE BEST SELLING WINDOWS TABLETS THIS PAST YEAR!

I don't want full windows running on atom processor as they exist today. Atom was and is garbage. It needs to run a limited and/or closed OS. If OEMs can/want to give me Haswell i5 at an affordable price maybe windows would do better on mobile. The way that the surface pro flies through most of the desktop is what everyone should experience when using windows. That's the standard performance consumers should see and come to expect no matter what tablet they pick up. You won't get that from Atom.

You clearly havent touched atom since the old crappy netbooks then. Clovertrail jumped the performance at the same clock speed massively, and ramped up the clockspeed too. Bay trail bumps it even further and on some tablets also bumps the clock speed over clovertrail too.

I think your a bit of a cynic stereotyping women and seniors as buying iPads, and here at uni I am yet to see anyone using an iPad for productivity yet see quite a few surfaces.

In my experience the old netbooks were slow yes, but they ran visual studio, eclipse, web browsers and office suites fine. Clovertrail is yet more powerful, bay trail is a surprisingly competent little chip. Your not going to be playing skyrim or whatever on it anyway.... Cant run visual studio on a surface RT anyway.
21st October 2013, 01:16 AM |#58  
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Originally Posted by SixSixSevenSeven

You clearly havent touched atom since the old crappy netbooks then. Clovertrail jumped the performance at the same clock speed massively, and ramped up the clockspeed too. Bay trail bumps it even further and on some tablets also bumps the clock speed over clovertrail too.

I think your a bit of a cynic stereotyping women and seniors as buying iPads, and here at uni I am yet to see anyone using an iPad for productivity yet see quite a few surfaces.

In my experience the old netbooks were slow yes, but they ran visual studio, eclipse, web browsers and office suites fine. Clovertrail is yet more powerful, bay trail is a surprisingly competent little chip. Your not going to be playing skyrim or whatever on it anyway.... Cant run visual studio on a surface RT anyway.

I touched the Asus t100 this past Friday. Its combination of CPU, GPU, and eMMC storage gives it entry-level performance. The keyboard dock is cramped and the trackpad is too small because of the form factor. It's a fool's errand to force baytrail tablets to run the full OS vs. iPad running IOS. It's like running a race with two 15 lb. weights around your ankles and you're allowing the other contestant to drive a car on the track. Windows needs its entry-level machines to fly through much of the desktop OS like an iPad flies through many lightweight IOS tasks. Additionally, I'm saying the iPad has had great success with the aforementioned mass market demos and these people are not picking up cheap atom PCs that can supposedly do real work. I didn't intend to stereotype those groups. Moreover, I'm not talking about complex games at all on tablets. The surface pro sucks for modern PC games. It's like a console. No mass market tablet will be great for modern PC gaming anytime soon.

I'm tired of x86 being given multiple chances to succeed in the mobile battle while RT gets repeatedly shat on. And I'm sick of the salt and the hate. RT exists precisely because Wintel x86 UI and its concept has failed on mobile devices. Plain and simple. This strategy did not work. It did not sell. Nobody ever made a tablet that put it all together. Design, price, marketing, power, and hype. How this fact is conveniently absent from whether or not the ARM to Windows port makes sense drives me nuts. If Intel and OEMs would've handled their damn business, then MS wouldn't need to get involved. I never hear well darn XP tablets flopped, Windows 7 tablets flopped, and all the Windows 8 tablets flopped.... so why will this time be different for x86? Who is this for? What's the point of this?

It's annoying when no other mobile product has to put up with a fraction of the compatibility FUD from a niche of self-proclaimed #realwork users. Leading up to surface pro launch, I saw many folks constantly telling MS store reps they wanted a tablet for real work so they were going to wait for the Pro. A manager told me just wait for the Pro because it will be a game changer when I asked about tablet sales. I also saw this garbage across the internet and still see it today. It was like the Outlook complaints which MS chose to answer. However, I estimate Surface Pro sales and it shipped less than 2 million. Less than 2 million tablets to date post-price cut. AFAIK not a single windows tablet can say hey look at me I am a success story. I appealed to everyday people and made millions of lives better. Of course not a single tech journalist will look into sales except when it comes to the surface line because that's the only public information someone caught. If only people knew why OEMs combine android/windows tablets, why Samsung isn't all aboard the Baytrail train, etc. People would be clamoring for everyone to pack up and go home. Because holiday 2012 and YTD 2013, the iPad and Galaxy Tab has kicked all of their asses multiple times over with ease.
21st October 2013, 06:50 AM |#59  
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I upgraded foolishly thinking that there would be a way to jailbreak. Luckily, I was able to downgrade back to RT 8.0. I use my Surface RT as a second screen to my laptop on the road so I NEED Synergy. I also use SumatraPDF as my default PDF reader because the Windows Store readers are terrible. Microsoft just doesn't get it. I understand it is a security hole and must be fixed but at least provide a "DEVELOPER OPTION" that allows you to run applications in desktop mode that are unsigned. If you enable "DEVELOPER OPTION" a warning box comes up with disclaimers, etc. Google figured this out with Android. Why does Microsoft have to be so dense.
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21st October 2013, 05:37 PM |#60  
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Originally Posted by JAmerican

I understand it is a security hole and must be fixed but at least provide a "DEVELOPER OPTION" that allows you to run applications in desktop mode that are unsigned. If you enable "DEVELOPER OPTION" a warning box comes up with disclaimers, etc. Google figured this out with Android. Why does Microsoft have to be so dense.

See this would be the perfect approach I think.
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21st October 2013, 09:56 PM |#61  
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Originally Posted by SixSixSevenSeven

See this would be the perfect approach I think.

Exactly. It would keep all the modern ui fans happy with a locked down desktop, and allow the rest of us an official way to do more without having to fight Microsoft's attempts to keep it locked.
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