[Q] Better Rooting Methods

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_Dennis_

_Dennis_

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Samsung Galaxy Z Fold3
Samsung Galaxy Watch 4
polargirl said:
1) Unfortunately, almost everyone would mind loosing their warranty even if they didn't mind loosing the DRM keys that makes a Sony special.

2) He stated both disable and delete along with moving apps to SD without rooting. You only replied to the least significant aspect of that sentence.

3) Messing with your car's electrical system is a far poorer analogy than tinkering with Microsoft Windows. You neither lose your license for that nor void your hardware warranty for that.

4) That was too strong of a reaction for rebutting only the point that has little significance while ignoring the rest of the sentence. I jumped the gun a bit for not carefully reading both his reply and yours. Apologies.
Click to expand...
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I am unaware of any significant bloatware you can delete on a Samsung without root.

I don't mind voiding my warranty of the company is reasonable (most are) so say I unlock my bootloader then notice the power button is loose, I should not lose my warranty, but if my cpu is overheating due to the kernel I have I should lose it. That said I did back up my TA partition but that was before I knew kitkat does not need the DRM keys.

I agree that the old style SD card access should be an option, but that is an android/Google thing.

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polargirl

Member
May 30, 2014
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_Dennis_ said:
I am unaware of any significant bloatware you can delete on a Samsung without root.

I don't mind voiding my warranty of the company is reasonable (most are) so say I unlock my bootloader then notice the power button is loose, I should not lose my warranty, but if my cpu is overheating due to the kernel I have I should lose it. That said I did back up my TA partition but that was before I knew kitkat does not need the DRM keys.

I agree that the old style SD card access should be an option, but that is an android/Google thing.

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So we at least agree that significant bloatware cannot deleted without root. The question left in this regard is if we both agree that smartphone owners should have a right to delete it without having to risk losing their warranty.

The rooted functions you are analogizing is CPU, memory, and GPU overclocking. I certainly can agree that people who do that should do so at their own warranty risk. Unfortunately, OEMs are forcing all or nothing for consumers. Either they get all access including risky access that they probably don't need or they have to accept the unfair and absurd restrictions placed on them by OEMs. If hackers can delivery root better to the public, that would force OEMs to a Windows-like software compromise without having to compromise hardware like overclocking is. Hackers unfortunately would have to be a bit irresponsible in order to make OEMs much more responsible. It's a sad reality.

There is also the issue of OEMs being reasonable. Even the power button example might still be used to **** out of a contract. Then there are issues like screen failure that easily could be a defect, accident (which people with extended coverage like myself have), or what OEM's consider abuse (rooting and installing unauthorized hardware managing software. Why should consumers be at the arbitrary and capricious will of some low-level cubicle monster in Bangalore, India?

I don't know much about the tech side of eliminating the need for DRM keys in Kit Kat but they still are needed for warranty. Speaking of, I have not seen any threads on how to unroot this phone and restore it back to warranty condition. This and being distracted with other things is what kept me from attempting to root so far.
 
_Dennis_

_Dennis_

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2010
2,374
867
38
Samsung Galaxy Z Fold3
Samsung Galaxy Watch 4
polargirl said:
So we at least agree that significant bloatware cannot deleted without root. The question left in this regard is if we both agree that smartphone owners should have a right to delete it without having to risk losing their warranty.

The rooted functions you are analogizing is CPU, memory, and GPU overclocking. I certainly can agree that people who do that should do so at their own warranty risk. Unfortunately, OEMs are forcing all or nothing for consumers. Either they get all access including risky access that they probably don't need or they have to accept the unfair and absurd restrictions placed on them by OEMs. If hackers can delivery root better to the public, that would force OEMs to a Windows-like software compromise without having to compromise hardware like overclocking is. Hackers unfortunately would have to be a bit irresponsible in order to make OEMs much more responsible. It's a sad reality.

There is also the issue of OEMs being reasonable. Even the power button example might still be used to **** out of a contract. Then there are issues like screen failure that easily could be a defect, accident (which people with extended coverage like myself have), or what OEM's consider abuse (rooting and installing unauthorized hardware managing software. Why should consumers be at the arbitrary and capricious will of some low-level cubicle monster in Bangalore, India?

I don't know much about the tech side of eliminating the need for DRM keys in Kit Kat but they still are needed for warranty. Speaking of, I have not seen any threads on how to unroot this phone and restore it back to warranty condition. This and being distracted with other things is what kept me from attempting to root so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I wish blast was installed on /data so it is delete-able also but I don't see it happening.

To restore see here
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2569904
Basically get stock kernel installed, restore TA, restore stock firmware.

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warfareonly

warfareonly

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2011
1,303
463
Mumbai
polargirl said:
Why should consumers be at the arbitrary and capricious will of some low-level cubicle monster in Bangalore, India?
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Click to collapse

Low level cubicle monsters don't decide company policy, AFAIK.

And please tell me, why would developers/hackers/anybody care to provide better/simpler root to the masses when there at tools which satisfy the requirement of the current (small) society reasonably well? There are only 6 main steps :
1. Downgrade to .532
2. Root.
3. Backup TA.
4. Unlock bootloader.
5. Update to .757
6. Root.
How hard is it? If you can't even understand these, then you shouldn't be playing with your phone in the first place!
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Last edited:
iBuzman

iBuzman

Senior Member
Mar 7, 2011
1,437
654
Melbourne
Sony Xperia XA2
iBuzman said:
Unfortunately it's a bit more complex than that.. Unless you unlock your bootloader or have root you won't be able to run the app that you want to unlock the bootloader and/or root with.

Good news is you are wrong re "easy to hardbrick" - flashing stock firmware always an option to recover the device.

At the end of the day to get the benefits of what you call "risky" you will have to take a few "risks" :)

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk
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Geohot proves me wrong... Towelroot to the rescue :)

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LordManhattan

LordManhattan

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2007
15,039
5,495
Kepler-34b
iBuzman said:
Geohot proves me wrong... Towelroot to the rescue :)

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True, but we did write these things with the existing rooting methods at that time in mind, and Towelroot is a brutal hack that we had no idea was possible, so we were - and still are right that we can't make a one-click root solution without towelroot :p (please don't prove me wrong, lol)

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iBuzman

iBuzman

Senior Member
Mar 7, 2011
1,437
654
Melbourne
Sony Xperia XA2
Normal people still can't do it - Geohot is a freak, I was an iSheep when he broke ground there, had a homebrewed ps3 and now this.. Not many have contributed so much (especially when seemingly doing it on his own without dev team support, and yes I know he's lifted exploits from others lol including Pinkie Pie for towelroot and some iPhone Dev Team for limera1n I think hehe)

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LordManhattan

LordManhattan

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2007
15,039
5,495
Kepler-34b
iBuzman said:
Normal people still can't do it - Geohot is a freak, I was an iSheep when he broke ground there, had a homebrewed ps3 and now this.. Not many have contributed so much (especially when seemingly doing it on his own without dev team support, and yes I know he's lifted exploits from others lol including Pinkie Pie for towelroot and some iPhone Dev Team for limera1n I think hehe)

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Oh yeah, I remember my iPhone days very well, with all the waiting for jailbreaks and what not :D Do you know how much of the 18K he's actually received? I don't think he's even near that amount, but it would be cool to find out how much he actually got. I'm guessing a couple of thousands, since there are a lot of generous people around here.

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    _Dennis_
    _Dennis_
    polargirl said:
    Enough said! It might be worth it to you but probably not to most people.
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    If a week of reading is to much for some then that is good, they shouldn't root their phones.

    When people have really 'simple' ways of doing things they tend to skip steps and blame people for it. When something seems hard and daunting they read carefully and completely before starting, then read step by step as they go.

    Could the 9 stickies be updated to 1 thread with all information? Why yes they could, and if it is important to you that it be done the best solution would be to write the new thread yourself. It would be a great way to give back to the community. If you notice something you find wrong, and its in your power to fix it, then do so.

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    _Dennis_
    _Dennis_
    polargirl said:
    That is quite the cynical statement you posted and apparently contrary to even the spirit of this site let alone development and hacking in general. A better good for society is rending the need to root futile should be the goal and easily within reach of this site's members.

    Another newbie, zxc1251, has indeed did just that and I have been helping that member with instruction simplification.

    http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2769782

    The only problem with that is newbies tend to be quite limited in their tech knowledge thus limited in their usefulness when it comes to simplifying instructions for the tech ignorant and semi-ignorant public but I guess some relatively tech ignorant people need to start this if a revolution against unrooted, jailed or otherwise restricted access phones is to happen.

    I am trying my best with the knowledge and tools that I have to get this going.
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    The reason I had the 'do it yourself' attitude is all the information to make a new thread is there, just needed presentation, something tech geeks aren't well known for.

    There should always be a need to root. Average use case for a phone, having security is important since you store a lot of sensitive information. If phones came rooted or came so rooting was extremely easy imagine how many people would loose their bank account info or their contact info to the not so nice side of the Internet.

    Edit:
    Let me use this analogy. If you wanted to change the transmission in you car would you
    A) search the internet for 15 minutes and the open your hood and start disconnecting things or
    B) Spend at least a few hours looking at the specifics for your car (if you've change a few transmissions before) or as long as it takes for you to feel comfortable you won't destroy your car?

    If you wanted Linux on your laptop would to research the drivers, installation procedures, and distros first or just download the first one and hope you know how to install it?

    All I'm saying in researching is not a bad thing, if more people did it, less would brick their phones.

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    _Dennis_
    _Dennis_
    madphone said:
    These are points Samsung is already doing. You can move apps to sd card, deactivate or delete bloat, and still the phones are much easier to root than Sonys. Even Knox doesn't even make a difference in rooting. It only prevents samsung of beeing blamed for broken software or security-issues. Coming from samsung to nexus, rooting was a mess (whats the point about locked bootloaders anyways if you can unlock it?). But moving to Sony was a desaster. To root your phone without losing anything (TA Partition) was extremly time consuming, even to experienced users like me.

    I'm still hoping Google will fix the sd card issues. Every big OEM is using SD-Cards nowadays, so i guess there is a little chance google will show us something on IO soon.
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    I've had lots of Samsung phones, none were as easy to root as the z ultra. They may appear easy to end users, but that hides the fact that someone had to spend many many hours getting a hack to work. Sony gives you all the tools and with 4.4 you don't even need the TA keys for anything but warrantee returns. If you root you should loose your software warrantee as you no longer are using the software package provided.

    As for deactivating bloat all manufacturers have that, it's part of Android 4.2 and above.

    Don't get me wrong, I FYI want to use Samsung devices I have no say in that, it's your choice. I just think sometimes people forget how much work goes into rooting them from a developer prospective, especially the AT&T and Verizon versions.

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    _Dennis_
    _Dennis_
    polargirl said:
    Easy to root for whom? Again, there is this growing dissonance between devs/hackers and the public. What good is easy for the hacker if it is useless for most of the public? Easy for the dev but hard for the user doesn't make profit in the commercial software world so how would it make progress in the hacker world?

    You come across as a cynical shill for OEMs when you state that people should loose their access for having the "audacity" to use their smartphones to their reasonable consumer potential. It is also disingenuous of you to offer deactivation as a "substitute" for uninstalling apps.To think anyone is dumb enough to believe that shows arrogance and condescension. I am not even going to dignify with a rebuttal as to how deactivation vs uninstall are two completely different things.
    Click to expand...
    Click to collapse

    1) Rooting the z ultra is easy for everyone. It takes about 30 minutes and if you don't mind loosing your TA keys then you can do it in about 4 steps (unlock bootloader, load custom kernel, load supersu)

    2) I never said disabling and removing bloat is the same. The person I quoted said Samsung allows you to disable bloat, I said so does everyone else. And by the way it is nearly the same as freezing it in TB as the app won't load but it still takes space on your /system

    3) if you mess with something you loose warranty for what you messed with. I messed with my car's electrical system, if what I did could have caused an issue with my car's electrical system I wouldn't expect ford to fix my stupidity.

    4) I am far from dumb and would appreciate not being called such, thank you.

    Edit: by the way all the display enhancements that required your Ta keys don't need them on kitkat.

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    blueether
    blueether
    adfurgerson said:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkzjBfTDH20
    No it isn't!
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    Look, do you want me to slap you with a fish?
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